RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by Metal-morphous  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Warbirds and Warplanes >> RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by Metal-morphous
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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/11/2009 1:50 AM   
Avaiojet


 

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From: Jupiter , FL, USA
Status: offline 		I'd like to know more about your method?

Seems to me, My parents had a pair of baby shoes done pretty much the same way, except the guy came to the house.

I do have a model or two that could be considered for that look, possibly, but "Flitemetal" may be a consideration also.

Flitemetal has samples, do you send out samples of your paint system? Tuch-ups available in aerosol cans.

Weight gain? Has to be some weight increase.

I would appreciate any and all information.

Charles

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/12/2009 3:40 PM   
rich10


 

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Status: offline 		Charles I can tell you one thing first hand,,, this is no paint!!!! its real aluminum and you will not find one wrinkle or air bubble in the finish. Another nice feature of MM's process is the finish is durable, hard to the touch, I'm sure Ron will kick in with more info.

< Message edited by rich10 -- 4/12/2009 3:41 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/14/2009 8:20 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Rich I remember a time when you called it paint too you sure have come a long way.. Rich is correct, its not paint, it 2011 aluminum and I can get the equipment to your house but I'm going to need a 18 wheeler and forklift We had to do that for the Jerry Seinfeld project. Charles give me call at the shop or you can check out our web page for more info. I asked Joe form BRFR hobbies to order my landing gear, tires, breaks and air system from Sierra. I know they are expensive but I'm taking the advice of other Lightning owners like Kram that has shown me what happens to weak landing gear and they look real good too I will be back to work on my 38 after the 25tth of this month,, away on business till then and its killing me not to be able to work on the lightning now that it at this stage but it will wait.

Ron

< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 4/14/2009 10:43 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/15/2009 2:37 AM   
Avaiojet


 

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Status: offline 		Please tell me about the Seinfeld project. It must be Porsche related? I have a 356.

I think I've been to your website. I believe you are not explaining the process fully. Or I'm missing something?

Be nice to know the process, not to mention what "prep" work is needed. Also, the thickness of the metal. If it's really metal.

It may be aluminum, but my guess is it's liquid till it cures, shot out of a gun. I did lead body work the same way, but it was lead.

There was a product you could purchase in tubes called, "Liquid Aluminum." In fact, as a student in college, I made a tennis sculpture with it. I'll get a photo.

Charles

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/15/2009 10:34 AM   
TomCrump



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Status: offline 		In every business, there are proprietery secrets. You can't expect Ron to divulge this information.

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/15/2009 1:58 PM   
Metalmorphous



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From: Wallingford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Tom,
How is that gorgeous Stuka of yours

Charles we use a combination of 2 techniques that are no secret to the industry. If you’re familiar with plasma spray it’s along that line but we have a unique method of cooling the subsurface, that’s the big secret that’s where Tom hits the nail on the head. Again it is REAL!!! aluminum and the metal thickness for the planes is 2 mils. but all this has been covered before in my earlier threads. Your next question will be " Does the metal skin interfere with the radios" answer NO. Ron Long has proved this with the F-86 we plated for the builder of the plane Greg A.
I know of the paste product you are referring to, it’s like a product called dip a do that BVM sells. Just don’t touch it after you have it on the surface. If you’re looking for a DIY product I would suggest products like Flite Metal or a silver spray paint from ALSA call mirror chrome. Both look good and are fairly inexpensive.

Your right about Jerry,,, the designers picked our product for all the windows, door frames and other parts of his garage in New York for his car collection.

< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 4/15/2009 2:01 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/16/2009 9:48 AM   
TomCrump



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Status: offline 		Hi Ron

The Stuka is fine. Still haven't flown her.

I'm building a Cessna 195, now. It would be a great subject fpr your process, if I could afford it !!! LOL

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/17/2009 1:57 PM   
rich10


 

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Status: offline 		The price is not bad when you figure in the labor and materials it takes to get this kind of a quality aluminum finish. I just sold off a few of my other planes and promised Ron my first born But seriously I did not have the time, talent or patience to work with the other products that are available and once you have seen a polished out Morphed plane you can justify the cost IMO

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/17/2009 3:48 PM   
mark6051


 

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Status: offline 		Evening Ron
Sorry to bother you again, are you please able to advise what size machine screws you used to fix the glass to the canopy frame...From the pics maybe 4/40 x 1/2, but I suspect that is way off and as I live in the world of Metric, I am having a hard time finding the equivalent to match..

Kind Regards
Mark


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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/17/2009 7:13 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		I'm using No. 2 x 3/8 du-bro button head sheet metal screws cat. no. 525 I sanded off a mm and polish them.

< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 4/17/2009 7:14 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 4/17/2009 7:28 PM   
mark6051


 

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Status: offline 		Morning
Thanks so much..

Cheers
Mark


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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/11/2009 12:50 PM   
mark6051


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Ron
Cant speak for any others, but I am hanging to see the finished bird...Just wondering if you had any chance to work on her ?

Regards
Mark'

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/13/2009 1:59 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Mark its killing me that I haven’t been able to do ANYTHING to the P-38. in 12 years that we have been in business I have not seen a year as busy as this and I don’t have any explanation for it Last year like everyone else we listen to the news and thought we would be feeling the impact of this new economical crunch, so we upped our sales thinking that out of 10 prospects we might get 1,,,,, well it didn’t work that way,,, out of 10 prospects it was more like 11 and now we have to get these project finished with a crew that is used to handling 5. I got back from my business trip last week and knew I didn’t have anymore planned for this month, with this in mind I thought it would be a good window of opportunity for me to get the panel lines and fasteners finished before I start installing the mechanics. It didn’t work out like I planned, I had to get back in the shop and help get some of the work load out the door. I must say that it feels good to be there but find if very difficult to walk by the lightning and not be able to do some work to it at our current shop progress I think the knot will loosen in about a week or 2 and I will post some pictures. I'm still waiting for my landing gear from sierra, once that’s here it will give me a good excuse to get things moving again.

Ron


< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 5/13/2009 2:03 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/13/2009 2:31 PM   
mark6051


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Ron....Better Busy than dead dead in the water....We have all just been asked to take a pay cut and the first way of handshakes has gone through with an entire floor of people gone...

I was lucky and got relocated internally this time, If your hiring, my hand is up





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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/14/2009 4:27 AM   
JSZ



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Status: offline 		Hey Ron, got the parts today, thanks again.

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You gonna paint that?

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/14/2009 1:48 PM   
Metalmorphous



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From: Wallingford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Mark it’s the same here for a lot of workers and again I'm not sure why we haven't felt the crunch. I do anticipate that we might be lagging behind due to the fact that the average project takes between 1 and 3 weeks to finish. I hope I'm wrong. If I didn’t see the possibility of that black cloud in our future I would hire 3 people with quality in mind and good skills in a minute, but until I can get a better feel for what the future is going to bring I will just keep offering our current work force the overtime, schedule out more and I will be in the shop lending a hand.

JZ- Do some trial fits and don’t forget that the fillets are made from tooling resin and respond well with some heat. Just warm them up, work them into place and tape them up to cool. Once you get them where you want, trim them to your like, apply slow cure epoxy, place them back into position and tape them overnight. I finished the fit with some filler to get the meeting points just right. Prime them with a good 2 part primer, sand and paint. Let me know how they work on your bird and if you have any question give me a call at MM.


JZ-A few pictures for reference


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< Message edited by Metalmorphous -- 5/14/2009 2:03 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/14/2009 1:53 PM   
at-6 texan



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Status: offline 		Hi Ron what up!!!.....
Now that you've finished the project can you to post a video of this ?.....DAI!!!!!!!

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/14/2009 2:04 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Sam I'm not even close to being finished but I will get some new pictures up soon


Ron

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/14/2009 2:16 PM   
at-6 texan



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Status: offline 		Ron am sorry but i not understand!... i see many pic to the new craft....

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< Message edited by at-6 texan -- 5/14/2009 2:22 PM >

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/14/2009 5:51 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Status: offline 		Sam here is my SHORT list of what I have to do.

1. Panel lines, rivets and fasteners need to be completed ( right down to the last one) about 40 hours
2. Mask and paint to replicate full scale P-38 that I have chosen to model
3. Install landing gear and plumb
4. Install gear door
5. Install gear door hardware and plumb
6. Install engines and fuel tanks with plumbing
7. Install servos
8. Fabricate servo arms for fowler flaps
9. Fabricate linkage for some 14 servos and adjust for initial radio start
10. Install customized enter ladder
11. Fabricate highly detailed cockpit
12. Install the rest of 3000 stainless screws
13. Install lighting system
14. Apply 2 large decal transfer sheets
15. Install aluminum nose cones, polish to match finish
16. Install brakes and tires
17. Weight and balance

Now remember this is the short list I still have to make a mold of the removeable nose and get the gun bay details completed but like I sayed before I really enjoy building and dont mind the fact that it will be sometime before it taked to the air


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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by... - 5/14/2009 6:33 PM   
at-6 texan



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Status: offline 		NO BAD!!!!! Ron......I'M sincerely happy that you're still working on it .. when I see a thread end and as a friend leave ...

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 5/21/2009 10:05 AM   
mark6051


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Ron
Silly Question about your you list that you mentioned..With all the internal installations, wouldnt it have been easier to install before all the sheeting, glassing and detailing was done. That way you would have had more room to move around inside the wings and fuselage ??




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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 5/22/2009 2:14 PM   
Metalmorphous



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Mark the conventional  wau would be to install the mechanics like you stated. In my case it saves some time installing them after our plating process. I have done the preliminaries for the mechanics like the servo plated in the outer and inner wings but did not install the servos due to the fact that they would have to be removed before it can be aluminum plated and polished. By installing them after I have the shell  is completed I only have to handle them one time. You might have noticed that I don’t have the inboard radiators installed yet, this save time by keeping the metal out of that area without me having to use one of our masking balloons to keep the metal from entering the booms were it is not needed.  Doing it this way I just have to make sure that I have done my home work and got the details worked out on paper first.

Ron



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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 5/23/2009 1:36 AM   
NCIS


 

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Status: offline 		Thats a great looking Ziroli P-38. Nice job. I wish I had your talent.

Barry/Gibbs
www.canopyrailsforwarbirds.com

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RE: P-38 Ziroli designed, built and aluminum plated by ... - 5/23/2009 5:57 AM   
mark6051


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Ron
All clear now.....You have taught me a valuable lesson - Have a plan from the beginning

thankyou again

Regards
Mark



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