RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings  
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings
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RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/19/2008 8:55:23 PM   
BOUND_4_HELL



Posts: 136
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Yes tkg I agree, Karma had a way of balancing the Universe.

Here is a post I found praising other service providers, as consumers this is what we should all expect from companies that care and provide good customer service. And for this kind of quality service, I believe that they will be rewarded with repeat customers. I for one will be.

BoundForHell
You can never have enough power, as you can always throttle back.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here's to Thunderbolt RC.



I guess its ok to put in a plug for Thunderbolt RC as they do advertise here on RCC and have a lot of happy customers here.

Just wanted to personally say thank you to Jeff at Thunderbolt RC for the great service.

I had purchased a brand new DL-50 from a member here on RCC. It did come with a sort of a basic info sheet but I had a number of questions about the engine and asked about the possibility of purchasing a manual. The next day I got a lengthy e-mail with every question answered. Also Jeff, at Thunderbolt RC, said he was just in the process of having some new manuals printed and would send me out a copy right away ... free of charge! It came in the mail only 4 days later!

I also asked, seeing that I hadn't purchased the engine from them, how I would address any possible warranty issues and is it possible the warranty could be transferred into my name. Jeff said he didn't see why not but regardless, if I had any problems, just see him and he would do his best to have it serviced under warranty! Darn good service from a company, when I hadn't even purchased the engine from them!

I thought this important to mention as some have expressed concerns as to how good their service might be when compared to "other" competitors! Well, all I can say is, if this service is any indication, I for one certainly have absolutely no worries!

Heres to Thunderbolt RC Thanks again for the great service!
__________________
Team RC Guys.com


(in reply to tkg)
       Post #: 26

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/21/2008 3:05:01 PM   
mario1215


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I have my own story about customer service too…

Last year I bought a 2.4 Brison Engine.
A few days later when the EI module failed, I contacted Brison and the module was replaced (no questions asked, not even proof of purchase).

Unfortunately the new EI module failed again and also the replacement.
A tech from Brison personally helped me resolved this situation and even gave me(as a loaner) an additional EI module in case I had another failure until the problem was finally resolved.

I must say that although there were too many EI module failures the support from Brison was outstanding. I would buy another Brison engine anytime.

I was considering buying the new Fuji 34EI engine but after reading this thread( and many others on different forums) I think I will reconsider it and buy a different brand.

It seems to me that the support problems of Fuji Engines is not related to the manufacturer (in Japan) but the services providers in North America, at least in my opinion.


(in reply to BOUND_4_HELL)
       Post #: 27

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/21/2008 11:02:03 PM   
blw



Posts: 4562
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline 		I'm not so sure that Hobby Services really has an obligation to fix this engine free of charge, even though they offered to do so. One can look at this issue several ways. One way is to recognize that the engine is second hand, and there is no receipt of the purchase by the original owner. This is a hazard when buying NIB engines that are actually second hand. The lack of a receipt is another problem.

The fact that there was an offer for some compensation by Hobby Services is pretty good when compared to other companies, IMO.

The reason that I made the decision to post anything on this engine is because we are getting too close to product bashing, and there is a need to balance out things a little. I agree that the crankshaft problem is a surprise according to what the OP noted, but efforts were made to compensate him for the second hand engine.

A final note on this thread- I'm not entirely comfortable with correspondence from Hobby Services being duplicated here if it were in the form of private email between them and the owner of the engine.

_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to mario1215)
       Post #: 28

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 12:58:23 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

Posts: 11510
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Central, CA, USA
Status: online 		blw,

With all due respect, most notes passed between a customer and a supplier can be viewed as supplier policy in one form or another. For consumers that make the decisions regarding what products to buy, those policies can have a profound impact on customer willingness to purchase any given product. Good policies are generally rewarded with higher sales counts. Bad policies just the opposite.

As a consumer I want to know as much as possible about dealer policies before I make a "buy-no buy" decision. That applies to any type of product, be it R/C or anything else. Quotes and excerpts from inter and intra company e-mails without the original authors approval are used on an extremely frequent basis tworld wide to support or disprove various positions and this case really isn't any different.

Policies do not change simply because of the warm and fuzzy feelings vendors have towards their customers. Change happens because they were motivated to do so. How they become motivated is the only question, and this thread may just well be a very powerful motivational tool. Without exposure questionable policy has no reason to change. So what has been posted in this thread meets with RCU policy of providing factual and informative background for the R/C modeler's continuing education.

_____________________________

If you can''''t fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 29

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 1:06:35 AM   
tkg


 

Posts: 2151
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Riverton, WY, USA
Status: offline 		The real deal is not how a company stands by the letter of their warranty. Its like they have to or its a sue job.
But what is important is how well they stand their product.

_____________________________

TKG
To much power is just about right.

(in reply to Tired Old Man)
       Post #: 30

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 1:45:27 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

Posts: 11510
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Central, CA, USA
Status: online 		I completely agree. Those that believe in their products stand behind them all the way. Those that don't.... As for the litigation stuff, it's more of a p.i.t.a than it's worth and is grossley over used. Been there a few times when I held company ownership. Never was there full satisfaction with a win.

_____________________________

If you can''''t fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

(in reply to tkg)
       Post #: 31

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 3:31:23 AM   
mario1215


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		BLW,

With all due respect, I have the feeling that this thread is about to be shutdown because someone is exercising his right to express, factually, about a defective product and lack of support from its manufacturing company.

I agree with you that there is always a risk when buying a second hand product. BUT when that product has a know problem and fails out of the box I firmly believe that as a customer I deserve all necessary support from the manufacturer and its representatives to satisfactorily resolve the problem.

I don’t believe at all that BoundForHell intension is product bashing as he is presenting factual and educated information about this particular engine and its problems.

If this problem had been dealt with privately with emails between BoundForHell and Hobby Services we wouldn’t know about any of the issues that have surfaced.

(in reply to Tired Old Man)
       Post #: 32

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 4:22:40 AM   
BOUND_4_HELL



Posts: 136
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hello Pat Roy, tkg, and mario1215,

Thanks for your support.

I agree with your thoughts on the situation and tomorrow I will post a response to blw

Thanks
BoundForHell
You can never have enough power, as you can always throttle back.

(in reply to mario1215)
       Post #: 33

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 4:33:07 AM   
blw



Posts: 4562
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat Roy

blw,

WQuotes and excerpts from inter and intra company e-mails without the original authors approval are used on an extremely frequent basis tworld wide to support or disprove various positions and this case really isn't any different.

Without exposure questionable policy has no reason to change.


Pat, intra company correspondence would be something different than one on one communication via a private venue. I just said that I wasn't entirely comfortable. I can easily see your points too, and you have stated things sensibly.

quote:

mario1215

I have the feeling that this thread is about to be shutdown because someone is exercising his right to express, factually, about a defective product and lack of support from its manufacturing company.


Nope, not yet. However, the factual parts have been stated over and over by one side only. I did take it upon myself to ask someone who represents the company because I was concerned about the claims here. Has anyone else done that other than the OP? So, I tried to interject a few things to consider. I didn't come down on anyone while using my status as a moderator. I gave my viewpoint with open ended comments that left room for people to disagree or agree. Some of my comments were based upon factual things that I was told and some were opinions.

Yes, expression of feelings is allowed. What I wish everyone would see is that it *could* look like it is getting close to bashing in this and many other discussions when only one side is represented. For a moderator, and some members, it is tough to know when to say something about it or when to let things run their course. For example, just what if (insert fictional members name here) stated something about a product that simply wasn't true and it was allowed to continue endlessly? It would be damaging and unfair to the company. This is my only point, so please don't read any more into my last statement. It is normal to be concerned if things are possibly unfair. Some of the posters here vend their products. Fairness is fair to everyone.





_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to Tired Old Man)
       Post #: 34

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 5:32:58 AM   
Dick T.


 

Posts: 697
Joined: 2/13/2002
From: Visalia, CA, USA
Status: online 		I think many people take this hobby too seriously by thinking their situation is special. A warranty is usually pretty specific in what it covers and terms of ownership. Besides, we are only hearing one side of the story. If that prompts someone to base their future purchases on the lop side only, the field of product choices becomes increasingly narrow.

The gas engine crowd seems to be the biggest complainers when something goes sour. And, I tire of the glowing comparisons to the “big name” suppliers who take care of their customers no matter what. I can relate stories, personal and otherwise, where they too stood on their original purchaser warranty with only offers to fix at a reduced cost or supply parts at cost and fix it yourself.

I too own numerous gassers ,including the big names, some purchased new, some NIB second hand, some used. Only the new ones, with receipt, are covered under warranty. The rest is my responsibility.

One should never be reluctant to outline the situation and ask if warranty service can be applied. But if the answer is no, buck up and ask what they can do. If still nothing (which is very rare) be a big boy and bite the bullet, pay to fix it or throw it away. Carping away on a one sided post becomes rather silly.



_____________________________

Dick Tristao
ModelGrafix

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 35

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 2:51:41 PM   
Tired Old Man


 

Posts: 11510
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Central, CA, USA
Status: online 		Dick,
Good points.

It would be nice to see someone from Hobby Services chime in with their side, as I know they do periodically. Certainly they are aware of the thread, as noted by blw. That was quite good of him to contact them and request a follow up on their part, btw. I know it's difficult for a distributor to engage in something like this when they start on the defensive, but that input could enlighten many for situations that may come up down the road, making processes easier for all. Many warrantiy policies are rather vague in their coverage descriptions, confusing most about what is or is not covered. Extending warranty coverage to a second user is rare, but as in anything else sometimes has to be modified for the situation.

Although I tend to agree that newbies in general have a tendency to have more issues with gas engines than others I don't think they complain any more than other sectors of this hobby. How many times have we seen where someone came off the wall because they had to improve incidences on an ARF or had to shrink covering? Then there's the ones that complain that the firewall was set without right or down thrust so people could trim to their personal preferences, rather than trim out manufacturer induced angular flight paths. Then there's the ones that come unglued when a plane won't balance if they installed all their components in the pre cut slots in a fuselage. Moving things to make it work is beyond compehension. The problem is across the board.

One thing I fully agree with is the perception that r/c hobbyists have become much too spoiled. Unfortunately that was done by the manufacturers in an effort to increase sales by marketing what the customer wanted in fast assembly ARFs and pre-made components. Doing that has lowered the knowledge level of a fair percentage of the modeling base, in ways making it harder for everyone. Remember when we always had to make what we needed? Catch-22. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you don't market this way the customer base drops to levels that won't support the products.

_____________________________

If you can''''t fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

(in reply to Dick T.)
       Post #: 36

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 3:08:39 PM   
jimcork1



Posts: 934
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Slidell, LA, USA
Status: offline
quote:



One thing I fully agree with is the perception that r/c hobbyists have become much too spoiled. Unfortunately that was done by the manufacturers in an effort to increase sales by marketing what the customer wanted in fast assembly ARFs and pre-made components. Doing that has lowered the knowledge level of a fair percentage of the modeling base, in ways making it harder for everyone. Remember when we always had to make what we needed? Catch-22. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you don't market this way the customer base drops to levels that won't support the products.



Lots of discussion on warranty. I consider that when I buy something to put in the air there might be a warranty. There are companies that give good service and those that don't. What irritates me is when they treat me as if I have no intellegence.
And there are some major suppliers to hobbiest that will do this!

I have quit buying products from companies that in my opinion do not honor their quality of product when I (as the customer believe THEY have a problem). I normally return a product to help the company find the problem, solve it and make a better product.

BUT:

I have quit purchasing their products when:

1) I have 2 new servos with gears so bad they won't make a full cycle and the company tells me they don't make them that way.
2) No matter how many times I work with a company the product still does not work. (won't give examples unless you PM me)
3) They sent the wrong product and won't correct their error.


It is unfortunate when companies do this but I use what is known in economics as the Dollar vote. My dollar where I chose to spend it is my vote. If you want me to vote for you, you need a good product, Not perfect,, just good.

The use of a forum to communicate is the only way a hobbiest can communicate with others that might want to know. They have the option to read or not read the forum. It takes a direct intent to click on the thread to read it.!

If a company has an issue with a product and it shows on the internet,, they have the choice to act or not. Not all customers are right I accept that. I do accept that NIB does not mean you got a warranty. Yesterday I bought a new receiver still in a sealed package. BUT I don't expect a warranty. AND I did not pay full price.

So IMO as long as people post the FACTS and not opinions they have the right to do so within professional bounds.

But then this all just my $.02 worth and I am sure there those will disagree.

Remember this is a HOBBY and we are in it for FUN! So lets not dwell on what is wrong,, Just help me build my 92" BIG HOTS and lets get on with the fun.


(in reply to Tired Old Man)
       Post #: 37

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/22/2008 5:29:18 PM   
BOUND_4_HELL



Posts: 136
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hello blw,

With all due respect, you are the moderator and it’s your prerogative, but if this thread gets erased, I believe you will be doing a disfavor to other modelers.

Also with respect if you are going to erase it, at least we should get the facts correct. Please remember you brought this up in your post and now I feel a need to reply.

They never offered to fix the engine for free or else this post would have never happened. As far as the low token offer they made, I made a counter offer to them, in the absence of any info and I fully expected for them to make a counter offer to mine, somewhere in the middle. I have not negotiated with customers for a couple of years, but if I remember correctly, that’s the way negotiations take place. Instead from my perception point, they insulted me.

I think of myself as a fair minded individual and I also believe that I have been fair with the actual product “Fuji-Imvac BT 43EI gas engine”, as I stated in many of my post that I think that the Fuji is still a good engine, and that it’s the correct engine for my Great Planes model aircraft.

Here are the quotes. You will find all of them in my posts.

1 “I’m a Tower Hobbies customer and I’m happy with their service,”

2 “I have bought a lot of Great Planes products, as I believe they are good quality products.”

3 -– “And to be fair Hobby Services answered all of my E-mail questions about this engine within one business day. I’m sure that Hobby Services does a reasonable job too, or else they would have a real bad reputation and no one would buy the products that they service. But in this situation they really missed the mark and that is why I posted on this form.”

4 -– “I believe that Fuji is a good engine manufacturer,”

5 -– “I must admit that this has been the easiest engine to start by far, glow or gas, it always started on the first or second flip.”

6 “But I’m not mad at Fuji, as they may have no idea how their customers are being treated in North America. And a failure like I had could happen even with the most expensive and best-engineered engine in the world. And I still believe that Fuji is a good engine, I just had bad luck.”

7 “I would have been happy if Hobby Services asked me to send the engine down to them, so they could take a look at it and determine the failure. They could have made a compromise and charged me their cost to update the engine to the newer versions. Because I also understand that companies need to make money to stay in business, I would have been happy with this and never would have posted.”


And I will state it again for the record. I believe that Fuji-Imvac is a good engine, and I will add to this that the first time ever starting this engine, it started on the first flip, after priming it. I remember, because it startled me, as I was not expecting it.

My problem is that I ran into what I perceive through digging around as a known issue, that the warranty policy does not take into account. Some people may say it’s the principal of the thing.

As far as re-p