Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings  
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Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/14/2008 5:59:42 PM   
BOUND_4_HELL



Posts: 136
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I just got a brand new older Fuji 43EI never been run (NOT the newer 43EI-2 version). I started the break in with the engine mounted on my plane and after 4 tanks (1hr and 30 minutes run time) I switched to 40:1 oil ratio. 3 minutes into my 7th tank the crankshaft sheered at the flywheel (see photo)

Is this a problem with these engines?? or is this just bad luck??
Has anyone else sheered a crank on a Fuji ??

I did some research on this engine and my engine was manufactured in mid 2005..... In mid 2006 Fuji introduced the 43EI-2..... Fuji beefed up the aluminium case, crankshaft and bearings on the 43EI-2. Everything else remained the same. The crank went from 12mm in diameter to 14.9mm. Is it because they were having sheered cranks on the older style engines??

Should I get the new case, crank and bearings and update my engine ?? Approx. $230 to update or $80 for a new old style crank??

The manual for the Fuji 43EI states that Fuji got 8000 RPM at sea level with a 20x8 prop at 15C degree temp after one hour of break in and this equated to about 23 lbs of thrust. I think their readings are high and optimistic, as I never came close to that RPM or thrust. I got some readings on the 5th and 6th tank of gas.

18x10 = 7500 RPM (1800 feet above sea level / 8C degrees temp). 18.2 lbs. of thrust
18x12 = 6400 RPM (1800 feet above sea level / 8C degrees temp). 15.5 lbs. of thrust
20x8 = ???? ???? (Shaft sheered before I could get to the 20x8 prop).

These are max RPM >> you would need to richen the high speed needle and drop 200 RMP to fly the plane or you risk been too lean when the prop unloads. I must admit that this has been the easiest engine to start by far, glow or gas, it always started on the first or second flip. Props were balanced on a magnetic balancer. Thrust readings are NOT accurate. I''''''''m using a digital fish scale, but for my purpose it does the job, as I measure each prop the same way and this will tell me which prop has the most thrust.

If anyone has propeller and RPM readings on this motor please post them.

Any info or discussions on the above questions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Bound_4_Hell
You can never have enough power, as you can always throttle back.



UPDATE ON MY SHEERED CRANK

I also posted on RC Canada and got this reply below from a member. It makes sense to me and hopefully this is bad luck and a new crank will work fine:

__________________________

The crank was cracked right from the day it was made. The darkness is from oil leaching in when running. Used to run a small motor shop and ran into a few snowmobile and lawnmower cranks with the same problem.

Flypaper
Tried for my kamikazi pilots licence. Flunked the test.
__________________________





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< Message edited by BOUND_4_HELL -- 4/17/2008 8:29:29 PM >
       Post #: 1

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/15/2008 12:25:02 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

Posts: 11510
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Central, CA, USA
Status: offline 		For just a little more money you could buy a new DL or MT 50 and have a lot more power at a lot lighter weight. If it was mine I''d toss it or give the parts to someone that does rebuilds and start over. The rpm numbers you provided are meaningless without prop types.

_____________________________

If you can''''t fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

(in reply to BOUND_4_HELL)
       Post #: 2

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/15/2008 12:51:09 AM   
kwhite.6


 

Posts: 114
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: windsor, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with Pat !

(in reply to Tired Old Man)
       Post #: 3

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/15/2008 8:29:23 PM   
BOUND_4_HELL



Posts: 136
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
Hello Pat and kwhite.6,

Sorry about the oversight, here are the readings again.

18x10W APC = 7500 RPM (1800 feet above sea level / 8C degrees temp). 18.2 lbs. of thrust
18x12 Zinger = 6400 RPM (1800 feet above sea level / 8C degrees temp). 15.5 lbs. of thrust
20x6 Mejzlik = ???? ???? (Shaft sheered before I could get to the 20x6 prop).
20x8 Mejzlik = ???? ???? (Shaft sheered before I could get to the 20x8 prop).

My friend has two Mejzlik ( pronounced "Maysh-lick" ) very light carbon composite props a 20x6 and a 20x8, that he will lend me to see which one fits this engine best. I started with the 18-inch props because of ground clearance. I do not want to run with a 20 inch prop, as it will only leave 2.5 inches of clearance when the model lifts it’s tail for takeoff, but may have no choice as the 20x6 Mejzlik may be the best prop.

If I run a DL 50 then I would have no ground clearance at all, unless I use a 3 bladed prop ( less inefficient ). I tried a 3 bladed 16x10 Master Airscrew on the Fuji as well. I do not remember the exact RPM reading around 7400 I think, but can''t be sure so I did not list it. However I do remember the thrust and it was only 14.5 lbs. My airplanes weighs 15 pounds wet, with full gas and smoke oil.

I did not expect 23 lbs of thrust form the Fuji 43, as the manual claims, I’m not that naive, but I thought I could get 20 lbs. Hopefully the 20x6 Mejzlik will come close.

I will post new RPM/prop readings, when I receive my crank from Tower Hobbies and put this boat anchor back together again.

Thanks
Bound_4_Hell
You can never have enough power, as you can always throttle back.




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(in reply to kwhite.6)
       Post #: 4

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/15/2008 9:25:57 PM   
nitro wing


 

Posts: 2337
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: surrey, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Wonder if those props were a bit much for the Fuji to start with??
Not sure but an 18x8 or regular 18x10 would load it enough? Kinda guessing here

(in reply to BOUND_4_HELL)
       Post #: 5

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/15/2008 9:47:45 PM   
BOUND_4_HELL



Posts: 136
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi nitro wing,

The 18x12 was a bit much, but should have not sheered the crank. The Fuji manual recommends 18x10, 20x8 or 22x6.

From what I can gather this crank had a factory defect in it. Most likely a crack or a machining error. What really gets my goat is that Fuji will not honour the warranty because I do not have the original receipt.

I bought the Fuji from a friend and he is paying for the new crank.

Our problem is that this engine was manufactured in August of 2005, ( label on the box ) it''''s been sitting in the original box on a shelf since then, until I started it last week. Although there is still 3 months on the warranty, no one will give it to me, cause I do not have the original receipt. They all tell me that they cannot tell the Date of Manufacture from the Serial Number. I think that this is bulls#!t, with today’s computerized systems, they should be able to tell me the exact day it was manufactured, and if the operator was jerking off when he machined the crank.

We have contacted Great Hobbies and I also have been arguing with Hobby Services (Hobbico) in the USA who are the authorized warranty repair service centre for Fuji in North America, but they will not honour the warranty without the original receipt and my friend does not have it.

Fuji''''s warranty sucks the big one, they just lost a customer and in today’s high completive market you would think that they want to keep their existing customers.

I worked as a Filed Service Manager for 20 years with a Robotics comapany and let me tell you, we had all the info on everything we sold in our computer network and we would honour our warranty even if the robot changed hands, all we needed was the serial numbers. We also had recalls for engineering and manufacturing deficiencies and travel to customer sites to fix them for free. It costs twice as much money to get a new customer than to keep one.

I guess Fuji does not see it that way. So I hope that everyone reading this post thinks twice about buying a Fuji.

Thanks
Geppino




< Message edited by BOUND_4_HELL -- 4/17/2008 8:34:22 PM >

(in reply to nitro wing)
       Post #: 6

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/15/2008 11:57:35 PM   
kwhite.6


 

Posts: 114
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: windsor, NC, USA
Status: offline 		What you should have said is lost ANOTHER customer.

(in reply to BOUND_4_HELL)
       Post #: 7

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/16/2008 12:11:46 AM   
jimcork1



Posts: 934
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Slidell, LA, USA
Status: offline 		If you look closely at the pic of the crank from 11 to 5 o''clock position it appears the crank was cracked to start with. The grannular portion is where the break took place while running. My guess is this crank was cracked before the engine was ever started.

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(in reply to kwhite.6)
       Post #: 8

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/16/2008 2:13:42 AM   
Dick T.


 

Posts: 697
Joined: 2/13/2002
From: Visalia, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUND_4_HELL

We have contacted Great Hobbies and I also have been arguing with Hobby Services (Hobbico) in the USA who are the authorized warranty repair service centre for Fuji in North America, but they will not honour the warranty without the original receipt and my friend does not have it.

Fuji''''s warranty sucks the big one, they just lost a customer and in today’s high completive market you would think that they want to keep their existing customers.

I worked as a Filed Service Manager for 20 years with ABB Robotics and let me tell you, we had all the info on everything we sold in our computer network and we would honour our warranty even if the robot changed hands, all we needed was the serial numbers. We also had recalls for engineering and manufacturing deficiencies and travel to customer sites to fix them for free. It costs twice as much money to get a new customer than to keep one.

I guess Fuji does not see it that way. So I hope that everyone reading this post thinks twice about buying a Fuji.

Thanks
Geppino




I understand your frustration with the situation but why the crappy tone towards Tower/Hobbico/Fuji about the warranty? Most manufacturers/vendors are pretty clear about providing proof of purchase to honor warranty service so they aren''t a villain. They can''t take one''s word for it as everyone wants free warranty work no matter when they bought it.

Had you sent the engine to them for inspection/service and explained the situation they may very well have repaired it at nominal cost or free since it would have shown no visible damage thus it''s limited use.

A number of Fuji engines are used locally with excellent results. Yours was probably defective but they weren''t given the opportunity properly review it''s condition and offer options.

Robotics cost a lot more than model engines so the comparison is moot.


_____________________________

Dick Tristao
ModelGrafix

(in reply to BOUND_4_HELL)
       Post #: 9

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/16/2008 3:10:07 AM   
krproton



Posts: 530
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		This will not help your warranty situation, but I can provide a little info about the props you were also inquiring about;

I am running the BT43 EI-2 on my GP 27% Extra 330S ARF. The plane weighs 14.5 lbs. I ran the engine (brand new) on the plane on the ground long enough to get it tuned (just a few minutes), but still running rich. Both the high and low end required leaningthe high more than the low. I flew it about three flights with a 20 x 10 Zinger Pro wood prop. Somewhere in there I leaned the high end a tad more, but still left it rich. Then I switched to my Mejzlik 20 x 10 prop and flew the rest of the first gallon of fuel. I was running Klotz @ about 32:1.

Next day I leaned the high end a tad more (but still running slightly rich) and switched to 40:1. I never took an RPM reading on my engine, but I recently took an RPM reading off another Fuji 43 that had about two gallons of fuel run through it. That engine had a Zinger Pro wood 20 x 8 prop. I think the RPM was about 6,800/7,000, but I can''t remember for sureI have it written down and if what I just quoted was wrong I''ll edit this post.

Anyway, the engine flies this plane well @14.5 lbs. A good 3D pilot would want more power, but for me, competing in IMAC Sportsman the engine is fine power-wise.

I hope you get your engine back together and if/when you do, maybe this info will help.

Tim

_____________________________

Tim Lampe
Hobbico R&D

(in reply to Dick T.)
       Post #: 10

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/16/2008 4:54:13 AM   
BOUND_4_HELL



Posts: 136
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info Tim,

I''''''''''''''''m sure that after putting the boat anchor together that one of the MeJzlik props will work fine with this engine, and fly my 15 lbs non 3D plane.

I was trying to point out how Fuji has real high and optimistic readings about their RPM and thrust readings. I looked at all the RC forums I could find on the net, and the highest 20X8 prop reading no mater what the make of the prop or altitude or temp >> was about 7000 RPM Fusji is optimistc by 1000 RPM. Like no one is going to notice that.

Thanks
Geppino



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< Message edited by BOUND_4_HELL -- 4/17/2008 8:32:04 PM >

(in reply to krproton)
       Post #: 11

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/16/2008 5:27:52 AM   
BOUND_4_HELL



Posts: 136
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Dick T. ,

You are correct that robotic equipment costs more than an RC gas engine, but customer service is customer service no mater what you sell. And we stood behind all our products even if the cost was only $400 dollars for an item. I gave Hobby Service every opportunity to help me with this. I asked if I could send it down before I took it apart, as I already new it was a sheered shaft by the way the prop was freewheeling. And they new that I had only run 7 tanks of gas in it. I explained all this to them before hand. But they just kept repeating the same old song, no receipt no warranty, and I certainly was not going to pay them to tell me that the crank had sheered and needed a new one, I already new that.

If this had happened to a DA 50 >> DA would not even ask for the receipt, they would have insisted I send them the engine. It would have cost me the shipping to get it to them they would have repaired it, updated any components that they improved on over the last couple of years and they would have picked up the shipping costs back to me, and they would have a loyal customer for life. And I know this because a member of our club had a problem with his DA and that is exactly what happened. Now that’s customer service excellence. I gave the same quality of service to my customers when I was a Service Manager and I expect no less.

So I’m completely in my wrights to say they will never get my business again. From now on, I will only buy from manufactures that stand behind their products.

I should have been able to send the motor in like you said and they would have seen that it’s brand new and that it had a manufacturing defect. And by the serial number they should be able to tell that it’s still under warranty, not given me the same old song and dance about needing a receipt.

Even if they did not give me warranty, I would at least think that they would want to take a look at the engine, so they can improve their product. I certainly did, if a one of my customers had a problem with a motor, the first thing I asked from the customers was for them to send it in, so we could analyze the failure, not argue about warranty. If you are in the Customer Service business, it’s called continuous improvement.

Enough said.
Geppino


< Message edited by blw -- 4/16/2008 5:03:26 PM >

(in reply to BOUND_4_HELL)
       Post #: 12

RE: Fuji 43EI Sheered Crank and RPM readings - 4/16/2008 10:56:09 AM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5389
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Last year at Top Gun, I witnessed the failure of a crankshaft in a BT 43 Fuji engine. This was the port engine on a well known twin Medium Bomber. The pilot had his wife go to the trailer and grab another one (in the box) and installed the engine, and went on to fly his next round. He later admitted (reluctantly) that the 43 had issues with the cranks, and that the new issue versions were on the way to the hobby stores. I can''t believe that the distributor would take that line with the owner of the engine, but I guess there is a first for everything. I bought a couple of these engines, but didn''t like them, and moved on to another brand. I take care of my customers, and if there is any doubt as to whether or not the unit is still in warranty, I will make the repair and charge it off to goodwill. My history of having repeat customers shows me that this is a good decision.

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to BOUND_4_HELL)