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What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/15/2008 5:01:24 PM   
r_jsmith


 

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From: Staten Island, NY, USA
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Over on the RC Groups in their "Modeling Science" forum I posted a description of a meteorological drone I built while a student at Parks College in 1959. I have also posted a couple of follow ups regarding the primitive tools I used to build the airframe and more importantly what this project means to me one half century later.

Here, this forum is a living museum preserveing the legacy of the early days of model aviation.

Question? Why do you construct and fly these designs? Do you feel they are in some ways superior to the technological marvels celebrated elsewhere. Do you (in some way) feel that you are preserving an important heritage?

My thoughts (from RC Groups) are posted below;


I feel that my project was an typical example of what would be accomplished in the 50''s by a good " garage" tinkerer,

Think of the multitude of disciplines I had to understand and execute with (hopefully) reasonable competence to accomplish such an endeavor? With the exception of the engine just about everything in my project was assembled from scratch or a basic kit. The reward... enormous personal satisfaction in validation of concept and material realization of same even if it was only relatively successful (as was the case here.)

Today one goes out and assembles their projects from "black boxes." Of course its obvious that most of the time such an assemblage functions in a manner vastly superior to that of my primitive effort, But to me anyway the personal satisfaction/validation derived from an assemblage of boxes is of an entirely different quality .

I had the good fortune to attend Parks College in the late 50''s. Parks was located outside of St. Louis. Even in the 50''s St. Louis was still very much in the shadow of Lindberg''s singular achievement. They have a museum containing the awards and gifts he received. Surely his was the definitive triumph of the individual over the committee/team approach . I feel that the technological complication which forced the passage of sole individual expression has not always been for the best

Parks College a Jesuit school, made much of individuality and and with that validation of self via self expression. I think that most us who were educated there absorbed this doctrine were rewarded by it in their personal and professional careers .
       Post #: 1

RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/16/2008 2:39:18 AM   
Live Wire


 

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From: Sterling , CO, USA
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You know if it wern''t for us there would be no ARFS''s, 3D new radios or a hobby as people see it today. There probably would not be a space program for young men and women to look forward to. Well I think we have done our job and done it well if the new will carry on
For got a letter

< Message edited by Live Wire -- 4/16/2008 2:40:50 AM >


_____________________________

Larry K AMA 36417
WACO Brotherhood #34

(in reply to r_jsmith)
       Post #: 2

RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/16/2008 2:14:58 PM   
John 38


 

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From: not applicable, UNITED KINGDOM
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I like vintage because

I like building
I like to see good construction shine thru the covering both on the deck and in the air
I like to see my planes fly - whether built as per plan , or modifieded , or out of my own brainbox - without to much pilot input from me.
I like others of like mind to see and appreciate my achievements and also for me to appreciate others'' achievements.
And I enjoy the social nattering of other real modellers in between flights.

Vintage does all that for me whereas modern kits ( non vintage ) doesn''t quite achieve all of that. Hving said that, I still fly modern artf''s as they are convenient and usually able to cope with all weathers whereas my lighter vintage models prefer kinder weather

As indicated in above posts - we have done our bit in the past helping to provide inspiration, but we can still continue to do more thru vintage modelling by stimulating "own-build" modelling even if it is mainly the new retirees showing up on the field now. remember , the bulk of them will have grandchildren and some of "grandpa''s hobby " will rub off onto that generation - before gameboy and girls kick in.


(in reply to Live Wire)
       Post #: 3

RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/16/2008 8:07:29 PM   
jaymen


 

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Joined: 3/26/2003
From: Mission Viejo, CA, USA
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Why? It''s what I have always done....the hobby has changed, I have not! Everyone else calls it vintage, I call it the same hobby I started in. Times have changed, new things come and go, but I''m still using the skill I learned years ago, and enjoy it. Just last year I built a stick and tissue Piper Super Cub, just because I enjoy working with model cement, dope, and tissue. It is rewarding to see a finished model develope from a pile of sheet wood and sticks, it gives one a feeling of pride, and accomplishment.

The fact is, not everyone can build, even more so today, so there is the additional satisfaction of carrying on what is quickly becoming a lost art. Even troubleshooting the old radios down to component level is a lost art in todays throw-away society.

_____________________________

Did you charge the transitory remitter batteries ?

(in reply to John 38)
       Post #: 4

RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/16/2008 11:36:53 PM   
johnvb-RCU



Posts: 532
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From: CanberraACT, AUSTRALIA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 38

I like vintage because

I like building
I like to see good construction shine thru the covering both on the deck and in the air
I like to see my planes fly - whether built as per plan , or modifieded , or out of my own brainbox - without to much pilot input from me.
I like others of like mind to see and appreciate my achievements and also for me to appreciate others' achievements.
And I enjoy the social nattering of other real modellers in between flights.

Vintage does all that for me whereas modern kits ( non vintage ) doesn't quite achieve all of that. Hving said that, I still fly modern artf's as they are convenient and usually able to cope with all weathers whereas my lighter vintage models prefer kinder weather

As indicated in above posts - we have done our bit in the past helping to provide inspiration, but we can still continue to do more thru vintage modelling by stimulating "own-build" modelling even if it is mainly the new retirees showing up on the field now. remember , the bulk of them will have grandchildren and some of "grandpa's hobby " will rub off onto that generation - before gameboy and girls kick in.





Agreed with all of that, except I don't fly ARFs. Tried and didn't really like them.



(in reply to John 38)
       Post #: 5

RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/18/2008 4:29:10 PM   
jaymen


 

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What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you

It means we are all getting older.....

_____________________________

Did you charge the transitory remitter batteries ?

(in reply to johnvb-RCU)
       Post #: 6

RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/18/2008 9:01:50 PM   
balsaworks



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From: Stockholm, SWEDEN
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It means real aeromodelling – building your own models from simple and wonderful materials balsa wood, spruce, plywood, piano wire, jap tissue, silk, dope, and using techniques and tools that are available to anyone with a little interest. The simple things are the most fun.
It means building models from an era when the most efficient design was still largely an unknown and when each designer contributed his own ideas, which led to variation and beauty of design.
Today contest models are more or less clones of what is already known to provide maximum efficiency, and they’re often so technically advanced they’re way beyond the capabilities of anyone except a small group of super specialists. Impressive and a little boring.

Most of all it means enjoying the magic and beauty of the model airplanes that grabbed me with such force when I was a little kid. That magic never seems to fade.


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(in reply to jaymen)
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RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/27/2008 7:15:47 AM   
Telemaster Sales UK


 

Posts: 52
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From: ShrewsburyShropshire, UNITED KINGDOM
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When I was twelve I built my first powered free flight model, a Veron Cardinal, powered by a Mills 75. It's a high wing cabin monoplane design of 35" (90cms) span. The wings were covered in yellow tissue, doped and fuel proofed. I wanted to paint the balsa fuselage in purple but dope in that colour was not available then so I mixed up red and blue dope. It came out brown! But I was really proud of this model, I had built a rubber powered model and I glider before, but this was the best model I had ever built up to that time. I took it to show my Uncle Geoff, who was a great builder and the man who had first introduced me to the hobby and showed me how build. He approved of the model but never saw it fly as he was in the terminal stages of cancer and he died soon afterwards. He was only 35. With my father and another uncle, also an aeromodeller, I took it to Forton Aerodrome, a WW2 training field about eight miles from where I live and where I still fly with the Shropshire Model Flying Club, (see www.smfcinfo.org.uk.) We stood at the intersection of the runways, it was a windless day. After trimming flights I found I could fill the Mills' thimble-like fuel tank which gave an engine run of what seemed like five minutes, and the little model would climb in left-hand cicles until it was a tiny cross in the sky at least 500 feet (150 metres) above our heads before the engine would cut, then the model would stall and it would slowly glide back towards the ground in right-hand circles. I can still see the sun shining through that yellow tissue.

From then on I was hooked. Sure I gave up aeromodelling for years due to the usual reasons, leaving home, going to university, moving to London, sex and drugs and rock'n'roll, and in my case, I really was a semi-professional rock singer, on and off for more than forty years, but aeromodelling is like gonnorreah, once it's in the blood it's there for life: it will burst out again.

I built a Sopwith One and a Half Strutter control-liner in the Seventies, it was too heavy, it flew twice. Then one day, when living in rural North Devon I saw a man flying a model. I stopped the car, asked lots of questions, bought a second-hand radio which had never been used, was given an Irvine 20 car engine which was later converted to aircraft specification and knowing that the Super 60 was the classic British radio I trainer, I went into the local model shop to buy one. The proprietor did not have one in stock but offered me a Junior 60, a 1946 free flight design as an alternative at a discount. I built it and finished it in a rather drab scheme of black, white and Olive Drab parachute nylon, but it flew well and it taught me how to fly. My cousin owns it now, and rather like George Washington's axe, it's on its second fuselage and third tail plane. He still flies it occassionally but it's finished rather more attactively in orange and white these days!

That's why I like vintage models.


Happy Landings


David Davis

SMFC
BMFA Approved Club Level Flying Instructor.

P.S. I am convinced that for people aged over say 45 who want to learn to fly, the vintage/antique/ old-timer model is the best model to get "stick-time" on. Young people seem to be able to manage ARTF 40 powered four channel trainers but they're too difficult to fly for people whose reactions are not as sharp as they once were. Ok, a vintage model won't fly in a wind, but a beginner would not be able to control any model in a strong wind and a vintage model, given enough height returns to it's free flight heritage. If the beginner loses control, all he has to do is cut the throttle and release the sticks and the model will sort itself out.

I use a Radio Queen to teach beginners on. This is an seven-foot (2.1 metre) 1950 design powered by an OS four stroke.

(in reply to balsaworks)
       Post #: 8

RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/27/2008 7:18:25 AM   
Telemaster Sales UK


 

Posts: 52
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: ShrewsburyShropshire, UNITED KINGDOM
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When I was twelve I built my first powered free flight model, a Veron Cardinal, powered by a Mills 75. It's a high wing cabin monoplane design of 35" (90cms) span. The wings were covered in yellow tissue, doped and fuel proofed. I wanted to paint the balsa fuselage in purple but dope in that colour was not available then so I mixed up red and blue dope. It came out brown! But I was really proud of this model, I had built a rubber powered model and I glider before, but this was the best model I had ever built up to that time. I took it to show my Uncle Geoff, who was a great builder and the man who had first introduced me to the hobby and showed me how build. He approved of the model but never saw it fly as he was in the terminal stages of cancer and he died soon afterwards. He was only 35. With my father and another uncle, also an aeromodeller, I took it to Forton Aerodrome, a WW2 training field about eight miles from where I live and where I still fly with the Shropshire Model Flying Club, (see www.smfcinfo.org.uk.) We stood at the intersection of the runways, it was a windless day. After trimming flights I found I could fill the Mills' thimble-like fuel tank which gave an engine run of what seemed like five minutes, and the little model would climb in left-hand cicles until it was a tiny cross in the sky at least 500 feet (150 metres) above our heads before the engine would cut, then the model would stall and it would slowly glide back towards the ground in right-hand circles. I can still see the sun shining through that yellow tissue.

From then on I was hooked. Sure I gave up aeromodelling for years due to the usual reasons, leaving home, going to university, moving to London, sex and drugs and rock'n'roll, and in my case, I really was a semi-professional rock singer, on and off for more than forty years, but aeromodelling is like gonnorreah, once it's in the blood it's there for life: it will burst out again.

I built a Sopwith One and a Half Strutter control-liner in the Seventies, it was too heavy, it flew twice. Then one day, when living in rural North Devon I saw a man flying a model. I stopped the car, asked lots of questions, bought a second-hand radio which had never been used, was given an Irvine 20 car engine which was later converted to aircraft specification and knowing that the Super 60 was the classic British radio I trainer, I went into the local model shop to buy one. The proprietor did not have one in stock but offered me a Junior 60, a 1946 free flight design as an alternative at a discount. I built it and finished it in a rather drab scheme of black, white and Olive Drab parachute nylon, but it flew well and it taught me how to fly. My cousin owns it now, and rather like George Washington's axe, it's on its second fuselage and third tail plane. He still flies it occassionally but it's finished rather more attactively in orange and white these days!

That's why I like vintage models.


Happy Landings


David Davis

SMFC
BMFA Approved Club Level Flying Instructor.

P.S. I am convinced that for people aged over say 45 who want to learn to fly, the vintage/antique/ old-timer model is the best model to get "stick-time" on. Young people seem to be able to manage ARTF 40 powered four channel trainers but they're too difficult to fly for people whose reactions are not as sharp as they once were. Ok, a vintage model won't fly in a wind, but a beginner would not be able to control any model in a strong wind and a vintage model, given enough height returns to it's free flight heritage. If the beginner loses control, all he has to do is cut the throttle and release the sticks and the model will sort itself out.

I use a Radio Queen to teach beginners on. This is an seven-foot (2.1 metre) 1950 design powered by an OS four stroke.

(in reply to balsaworks)
       Post #: 9

RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 4/29/2008 6:46:20 AM   
Telemaster Sales UK


 

Posts: 52
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From: ShrewsburyShropshire, UNITED KINGDOM
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Hi John

Seems that you and I are often online at the same time, it's five to six in the morning over here so I guess it must be evening in Oz.

What vintage models do you have? I have a Radio Queen fitted with a OS 52 Fourstroke, this provides much more power than it needs but like all OS's is very reliable, a four channel Super 60 with a Merco 35, a Chris Olsen Uproar with an Irvine 40 and a damaged Super Buccaneer which I won on eBay for £20. I plan to repair it and probably fit a K&B61 or Thunder Tigre 91 for power. The Buccaneer is also four channel, finished in paint and is consequently pretty heavy but it looks magnificent in a red and white sunburst finish. I plan to sell the Super 60.

I am a club level instructor and use the Radio Queen as a basic trainer on a buddy box. I find this especially suitable for older blokes who find modern four channel ARTFs a bit too much of a handful at first.

I lived in Australia for three years in the Seventies, initially in Melbourne where I worked in a department store, then in Adelaide before getting a job in the Outback (The Real Australia!) working for the ANR. I came back to marry the Love of my Life. We divorced in 1997. Shoulda stayed in Oz! Fond memories of opening the batting for the railway on Sunday afternoons!

At the end of March last year, I was made redundant from my job and, having an interest in WW1, decided that I would ride my motorcycle, a 955cc Triumph Sprint RS, to Gallipoli for Anzac Day, it's only 2,500 miles from my home, (4000kms)! It took me four and a half days to get there including being held up for four hours by the Greek and Turkish customs. When I was there I met a journalist called Anne who lived in Queensland, and a young bloke from Sidney called Michael Hurst. Anne was researching the fallen from her home town. One in six was born in England, one in four in Great Britain. Mick always wore an Akubra hat. I said I'd get one if I got a job. Well it took me a year to get one, (turned 60 last month, age discrimination?) though I did have my pension to fall back on and bits of consultancy and self employment, but now I work part-time as a driver for a Jaguar agent. It's a tough job etc....I'm still in touch with both Mick and Anne. Mick says he plans to come to the Old Country next year, Anne says she'd like to visit the Western Front, where her grandfather's brother is buried. He was a captain in the Royal Garrison Artillery and was killed at Ypres. On my return journey I photographed his grave and sent it to her. Her grandfather married his brother's fiancee before migrating to Australia in the Twenties. Rather romantic really. The Akubra is on order.

As my RCU Handle suggests, I am about to import the Telemaster range of models to the UK. Are you familiar with the type? It is basically a vintage design with ailerons, available in five sizes from three to twelve feet and you can view them on www.telemastersalesuk.co.uk or on the Hobby Lobby website. I hope to sell them to people who want a nice easy to fly model, the larger ones of which could be used as toffee bombers or glider tugs. I've had two in the past, a 5'6" model and an eight footer. I sold the small one to my cousin and the big one went in as a result of unexplained radio interference. I thought a plug must have become detatched but I lost my Morane on Sunday in exactly the same place. The local pundits claim that the cause of the crash was interference from a wire fence alongside the field. Never did like that Morane anyway! I'll just repair it, pull out the radio and engine and put it on Boot Hill, the corner of our club hut where abandoned projects are left for those who are brave enough to take them on! You may see the Morane and me on our club's website www.smfcinfo.org.uk as well as our hut and its new roof paid for by a National lottery Grant. We fly off a WW2 training drome, where Closterman was once stationed. We have the most spoiled caravan in the world inside the hut as a tea and coffee point. I mean a caravan inside a building!

Nice talking to you, glad you're still playing out. The club secretary is a good guitarist and bass player and my cousin plays the drums, but the old seccy has too many distractions which would prevent him from starting a band. I still have my Telecaster and PA equipment, 1500 watts worth. When I first bought it my old bass player said, "Where are we going to be playing? The Royal Albert Hall?"

Happy Landings

Dave Davis


(in reply to johnvb-RCU)
       Post #: 10

RE: What does Vintage/Antique aeromodeling mean to you - 5/8/2008 7:40:45 AM   
Telemaster Sales UK


 

Posts: 52
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From: ShrewsburyShropshire, UNITED KINGDOM
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By the way gentlemen, now that I think about it I have either, built every model I have ever flown, or taken on someone else's abandoned projects, with four exceptions.

1. A Super 60 (a classic British late-vintage design from 1959,) which I bought ready-made from a club colleague. More Brits probably learned to fly on this design than on any other. I am giving this model to club colleague as barter for other services.

2. An ARTF Limbo Dancer, a Fun Fly thing. This rekitted itself when I gave an up signal on a low inverted pass, thus joining the "Up Elevator Club."

3. An ARTF Citabria. I was teaching beginners one day in crowded skies. I assured the trainee that while models may look close, they weren't really. When we landed the trainer, my Citabria took to the air. I put it into a vertical climb even though another model, a Flair Piper Cub was close by, thinking that they look close together but they're not really. Well that Cub removed my tail surfaces as neat as you like and the Citabria was smashed beyond repair, and ....yes you've guessed it, it was the only other model in the air at the time! To make matters worse the Cub was totally unaffected by the collision and continued to fly for several minutes afterwards!

4. An ARTF Decathlon which I bought to help out a friend. This has remained under my bed since Christmas 2006.

IS THE ALMIGHTY TRYING TO TELL ME SOMETHING!

DD

(in reply to r_jsmith)
       Post #: 11