SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (Full Version)

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aryajet -> SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (4/17/2008 4:55:30 PM)

SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT


Ok, with a half healed thumb, and 20MPH wind gusts I coud not wait any longer and proceeded maiden flight.

I timed my flight for 6m30s, and commenced count down the moment I went hot with the radio and not the moment I began take off, i wanted to be using battery power for only that time for test purposes. (Timed from switch on to off).

Balanced at 122mm from leading edge could not go any further back with the battery which is kind of a bummer, I might have to get creative like remove the spinner or something I really wanted to go 130-135mm, Sebart recom. 130mm back for good 3D.

Checked flight control surfaces, I have 35 deg on high rate on all surfaces with 45% expo. I chose to do the maiden entirely on low rates. Which is set 40% of those values at the same expo rate. Cleared flight and went to crosshairs on the runway.

Take off was done with moderate parallel wind (10-12mph measured) with high gusts of 20-23mph. Throttle was applied slowly and absolutely no yaw coupling was necessary to keep the Katana straight as an arrow. When I reached half throttle the Katana began rotation and I pushed to about 3/4 throttle and began my crosswind leg, amazing tracking thus far . Downwind pass was done with the throttle reduced to half after adequate altitude was achieved for comfortable testing. The katana flew straight and level downwind and no trim was necessary, I was very very impressed. Came around on base leg, and during the first upwind pass one click of right aileron was required for staright and level flight at half throttle.

With trimming out of the way I began a series of aerobatic tests, and decided to throw my idea of doing all this on low rates out the window !! Rolls, inside & outside, axial and hell fast. Loops, power was steady and plentiful through all the maneuver, the big prop slowed it down nice coming down and out. Stalls, vertical and no wing drop noted. Snaps, inside & outside, up & down, were amazing the plane seemed to come loose during the snap and lock back up like two earth magnets whe you released the stick. These 4 snaps were done inverted as well, and same behavior was noted. No 3D was attempted during maiden flight.

THIS IS WHERE I NEED HELP, I have never encountered this before and I think I may know the culprit. I tried then to do a series of knife edge passes up and down wind. The moment I fed any amount of rudder in, the Katana would pull to the belly like I was putting a considerable amount of down elevator, but I wasnt it was the action caused by applying rudder in knife edge. I literally had to put very close to full up elevator on low rates to keep her straight, and with all that input during knife edge, it looks ugly!! So I thought at that time it would be perfect to test stall turns and hammerheads, SAME THING!! Everytime I apply rudder the plane doesnt pull, it YANKS to the belly. Even during straight and level flight, trying to test yaw authority causes it to descend and pull to the belly.

I think I could have possibly not have the motor stand-offs measured exactly. Or I may have to install a little up thrust into the motor standoffs. I have a digital incidence/throw meter and could accurately measure and adjust. But I dont know for sure that is where the problem could be. SOme guys at the field mentioned balancing but its balanced perfect, and flew that way as well.

When I heard the last minute alarm I landed the Katana with no incident, greased her in, went full crow, up with both ailerons, and elevators and slowed her down to a stop. Taxi is easy with full steering authority even in the gusty wind.

I removed the canopy and the battery was warm to the touch, and maybe even hot. But nothing that I would consider worrying about, I only went full throttle twice during the whole flight. I am most worried about the knife edge pulling to the belly than anything else.

** My test revealed I would definatlely like to change my battery, it seemed the power system had more in it, this flight stressed no part of the system all components were either warm or luke warm to the touch. I am going to remove my spinner to get the CG to move back a few MM. I want to move my BEC as far back as I can get it too help the CG as well. I am stuck on this knife edge problem though, Low Knife Edge passes are probably my favorite things to do Knife Edge Stalls, Knife Edge harriers, I love these show stoppers. And Im afraid of not being able to do them with this plane, im hoping modifying the standoffs will help me negate this issue....




aryajet -> RE: KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (4/17/2008 4:57:25 PM)

Here is my plan of Attack...

1. I will first go and measure with a digital caliper the length of the standoffs.

2. Then balance the plane inverted on a cg machine, and right up both. Get the CG dead on.

3. Begin a series of tests with prositve additions of elevator to get KE stable.

**Another question would a tail heavy or nose heavy status cause pull to the belly?




clovus -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (4/17/2008 10:58:26 PM)

Nice flight report. Did you try balancing it laterally?

clovus

EDIT: err, I mean between the spinner and rudder




aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (4/17/2008 11:18:49 PM)

So far setting it on a CG machine I have the CG set to exactly 126MM. The manual rec. 120MM for good pattern stye, 130MM back for good 3D...?

Any suggestions? I have not tried to balance it left to right, just nose/aft.




quist -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (5/9/2008 9:11:07 PM)

Tail heavy will make it go to the belly. A tail heavy aircraft requires some down elevator to trim straight and level flight. Down elevator will cause it to go to the belly on KE. This is not the only cause but it is a factor. rudder can also just cause a plane to pitch to the gear, try a flat rudder turn with no elevator and see what happens. Now try it inverted and watch it climb.




Jake Ruddy -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (5/9/2008 11:07:02 PM)

Most planes couple in knife edge... this is pretty normal.

The more tail heavy you are the more coupling....

I did the RCU review on the 30E and loved it! Once you get it right you will love the 50 as well!




aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (5/10/2008 2:41:58 AM)

Hey man thanks a whole lot for the feedback. I am pretty sure I have a tail heavy airplane on my hands, because its overly sensitive on the controls and pitch motion is like a fishes tail (quick and snappy).

I am really excited to get it dialed in right, because even with a tail heavy condition it was still under control and relaxed. So set on point I can only imagine what a graceful flyer it can be. I am going to be getting that new aluminum balancer so I can do this with absolution.

Thanks,
Amir




tIANci -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (5/10/2008 9:30:16 AM)

Amir - I am about to maiden my Angel ... what's your set up? I will put up a flight report when I have flown mine.




aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (5/11/2008 5:35:58 PM)

I have a AXI/JETI set up in my KATANA.

4120/18 AXI
77A OPTO SPIN
External BEC
Hitec Digis all around
5S 10C 4000mah
XOAR 16 8

I think the angel's design will fly better because its more of a patternship although fully 3D capable.....

Amir




tIANci -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (5/11/2008 5:57:48 PM)

Thanks a lot Amir ... how is the power on your plane, can she prop hang? I got the same motor for my plane but my batts will be EVO25 5S 4,900 ... she will be slightly heavier. Guess it will be ok for F3A flying. :) I am going with a 14x10 and then 15x10.




aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (5/11/2008 7:05:36 PM)

I meaured 9 lb 10 oz static thrust, with an AUW 6 lb 2 oz.

My batt is weak, and a cheapy. I bought 2 3S 3300 25C batt's that I plan to wire in a series. So it will be a 6S 3300 25C/50C burst. With that setup I plan to get 1 to 2 thrust ratio but it will prop hang at 3/4 the way it is now......

With your batt and prop you will get at a bare minimum 1 to 1.3 thrust ratio probably even more. Im guessing somewhere from 800-1000 watts but I might be mistaken. What ESC are you running?

Amir




tIANci -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (5/11/2008 8:12:14 PM)

Amir ... you got over 9.5 lbs on your 5S set up? I put the watt meter on and I got 750W only on the 14x10. It was pulling 45A. I am using a cheap Himodel 120A, I will change it soon. I also have the AXI 4130/16 in my EP box of toys. :)




aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (5/12/2008 8:35:41 PM)

Yes I am getting exactly 9LB 10OZ on a 16X8E XOAR prop.

I havent hit it with a watt meter yet, but the spin box says I was drawing 59A at full throttle.

Amir




BaldEagel -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (6/6/2008 2:40:18 PM)

Maybe someone can help me, I have three 4350 4S liPo's and wondered what motor I could put in one of these without loosing any performance? I have looked at the AXI range and can't make up my mind, any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Mike




aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (6/6/2008 8:08:58 PM)

You mean you plan to use a 4S setup in this Kat?

What ESC you plan to run?

What are the C ratings on those batteries, and how much do they weigh?

Amir




BaldEagel -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (6/7/2008 12:14:47 PM)


ORIGINAL: aryajet

You mean you plan to use a 4S setup in this Kat?
Yes

What ESC you plan to run?
What ever is needed for the motor.

What are the C ratings on those batteries, and how much do they weigh?
25C 4350Mah, 1Lb exactly.

Amir

These batteries are the 4S that go with my 6S packs to make up the 10S I use in my Extra. I know I need about the same Kv and Amp draw as the normal 5S setup, but just wondered if someone had some first hand information, preferably with an AXI.

Mike





aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (6/9/2008 1:56:35 AM)

I would definately go at least 70A on the esc side. And since your going 4S getting a esc with a built in bec might be the best way to go.

Hobbycity has them really cheap. If money doesnt matter 100% go with the same ESC I have except the one with a built in bec, being mainly the difference in throttle opto isolation and a little cheaper price, go with the spin brand.

amir




BaldEagel -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (6/9/2008 4:22:09 PM)

The trouble with the spin Jeti brand is that they do not have a stepping BEC if I need 70amps I will go with the new Hacker Pro series that have a steeping BEC as supplied with my Angel, they can handle the Digital servo's I always use, my question was mainly aimed at anyone that has used 4S and what motor they used.

Mike




aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (6/21/2008 11:04:05 PM)

....




Parrot Girl -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (6/22/2008 9:52:27 AM)

I was considering 4S on this aircraft too. Has anyone out there done it?




aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (8/2/2008 8:47:07 PM)

You might get good precision out of it, but not really a 3D setup....




BaldEagel -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (8/4/2008 11:22:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aryajet

You might get good precision out of it, but not really a 3D setup....


Don't neccesarily agree with that, it all accords what motor, how many amps are being drawn on what prop, I asked the question to see if anyone had done it all ready and had first hand experience.

I need to pull approximatly 50-55amp to get 700-800watts I will look through the catalogues to see what I can obtain.

Mike




aryajet -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (8/4/2008 8:58:51 PM)

Mike,

I was pulling 52A@18.5V Thats like 950W. I did not have good 3D on this plane. Thats first hand experience. I was showing 9LB thrutst on a 7LB AUW plane. It wasnt ideal, although if your a good pilot it would work, but you would have to have the throttle stick past 3/4 like all the time which is no good in a electric.

The moment I switched over to a 6S and began pullling like 1500W the plane came alive. And further I rarely ever have to push the throttle past 1/2.

Amir




BaldEagel -> RE: SEBART KATANA 50E - FLIGHT REPORT (8/4/2008 9:56:48 PM)

Amir

I think you are probably right, I know that I am pulling over 110amps out of my Pletenberg on 10S (6S + 4S) in a 13.5Lb plane and its very 3D able, its just that I have some 4S already and did not want to buy anymore LiPo's they seem to be dominating my life at the moment, LOL

I know that 150watts/Lb is about the minimum for 3D but to make it exceptional you need 200watts/Lb in reality.

I like to keep the 6S for my Angel which is one very good plane, SebArt don't seem to make a bad one.

Mike




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