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quote:
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R Wow, "spin"??? Fact is there are virtually no AMA events in the way you are referring to them. AMA sanctions events, but does not actually run them.
Now maybe we are getting somewhere. You are correct the AMA rarely materially participates in the production of events other than providing what sanctions allow. My point exactly…maybe yours also.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
Even the NATS events are done by the various special interest groups (SIGS).
The NATS do require material participation by the AMA and as such is an AMA event, unlike Top Gun which is not an AMA event.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
Top Gun is an AMA sanctioned event and it is a competitive event.
So what? The scoring will be by Top Gun’s rules not AMA’s.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
And it does in fact change what you said because your post had factual errors in it, if that matters at all.
Wrong…not in the least. Keep spinning all you want.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
And the OP is unhappy because he feels that the entire EC, or at the very least his DVP, should attend this event. He goes on to make it clear he feels they do not attend because of some disinterest or dislike of scale and scale events. I suggest that there are myriad reasons why an event may not be attended by a DVP and that I know of virtually no events (competitive) that the EC attends as a group.
No spin, just facts.
No! That is your personal opinion and spin of Stick’s position. Stick has every right to take the position he has. It would indeed be fitting that #5 DVP be there especially considering his participation elsewhere…but matters little to me though.
< Message edited by littlecrankshaf -- 4/23/2008 10:44:05 PM >
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quote:
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
The NATS do require material participation by the AMA and as such is an AMA event, unlike Top Gun which is not an AMA event.
Only to the extent that the AMA mails and processes the entries. Everything else is up to the SIG. If the SIG did not take on the work of doing the event the event would not happen. And the AMA takes a hefty cut of the entry fees to cover the staff time.
quote:
So what? The scoring will be by Top Gun’s rules not AMA’s.
You stated it was not a competition or an AMA event. It is sanctioned by the AMA and is deadly serious competition. That was the point.
What I find amusing is when you are confronted with facts and corrections of your misstatements you dance around, say "So what" and label it as "spin".
< Message edited by Silent-AV8R -- 4/23/2008 11:32:11 PM >
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
quote:
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
The NATS do require material participation by the AMA and as such is an AMA event, unlike Top Gun which is not an AMA event.
"Only to the extent that the AMA mails and processes the entries." Everything else is up to the SIG. If the SIG did not take on the work of doing the event the event would not happen. And the AMA takes a hefty cut of the entry fees to cover the staff time.
quote:
So what? The scoring will be by Top Gun’s rules not AMA’s.
You stated it was not a competition or an AMA event. It is sanctioned by the AMA and is deadly serious competition. That was the point.
What I find amusing is when you are confronted with facts and corrections of your misstatements you dance around, say "So what" and label it as "spin".
"Only to the extent that the AMA mails and processes the entries". How about the gas in the mowers and labor that SK was fired for giving? You forget much...much too much. You have again come up short.
Ok out of one side of your mouth you say it is an AMA event and in the same breath and out of the other side of your mouth you say it is not.
I haven't wavered one iota...NO! Top Gun is not an AMA event.
Now, a direct question for you SA Is Top Gun an AMA event? Yes or no without any spin. I'll bet you can't answer that direct question with a yes or no response.
< Message edited by littlecrankshaf -- 4/23/2008 11:56:04 PM >
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Is it a class B Contest sanction? Do class B Contest sanctions need to have any Rulebook events, or just be exclusive in nature? Will there be any "AMA Rulebook" contests or just Frank Contests?
Sanction doesnt equate to "contest", nor does it equate to "AMA Contest"
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quote:
Ok out of one side of your mouth you say it is an AMA event and in the same breath and out of the other side of your mouth you say it is not.
No it's not an AMA event. The AMA holds none or little events we ALL know that. But it's also not an AMA insured event as you tried to make it out to be. The event is an AMA sanctioned event and with that comes a whole lot more than just insurance, up to but not limted to exposure and a lot more in between.
But here is another fact. Frank Tiano, a really great guy and creator of the event whom is not the only one running the event. The event is run by a lot of people and hosted by a local club. You make it sould like TG is a one man show and the AMA is only there for insurance. Well LCS, we all know what really goes on the backend, it's not exactly translucent.
If reps and especially the EC don't show up ... whose fault is it? The AMA's no ... maybe they have better things to do like focus on a better program, like the Park Pilot Program or something better that benefits EVERYONE. Why should the AMA expose themselves to a crowd they already have in the first place?
Also if anyone should be giving free exposure to the AMA it should be Frank Tiano and the club hosting the event. It's a very commercial event utilizing the low cost products that the AMA, a non profit organization, is providing to them.
< Message edited by STLPilot -- 4/24/2008 12:46:24 AM >
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quote:
ORIGINAL: STLPilot No it's not an AMA event.
STL
That was pretty darn clear but I am still having a problem reconciling a previous response of yours... maybe just a little innocent slip. NBD
Anyway your post#49:
"So besides the sanctioning, low cost site insurance, event listing on web, event listing in MA, national attention and recognition, induvidual insurance for pilots and their spotters, contest results cataglogging, assures that no other AMA contest falls at the same time in the same region, provide trained CD's and a sure lot more including the entire support of the AMA and it's backbone .... what does the AMA do for Frank Tiano or any other (practically all) privatly held AMA sanctioned events?"
Either way, I am hoping you do understand Top Gun is not an AMA event as per your most recent post. I know I am a stickler for small details like that but when every response hinges on a presumption, it is important to get it right.
< Message edited by littlecrankshaf -- 4/24/2008 2:10:38 AM >
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Right, I didn't say event, I said contest, yet another portion of the benefit of an AMA sanction, in addition to that cheap insurance and all those other great, practically free, perks.
With all this attention to detail maybe you should be a lawyer. Not a an actual licensed lawyer, just ... a lawyer.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Is it a class B Contest sanction? Do class B Contest sanctions need to have any Rulebook events, or just be exclusive in nature? Will there be any "AMA Rulebook" contests or just Frank Contests?
Sanction doesnt equate to "contest", nor does it equate to "AMA Contest"
AMA Competition Regulations: General.
3.2. Class B Contest. Entry is restricted to, or preference or priority is given to, members of a club or clubs or to an organization affiliated with the AMA or to residents of a confined area, such as a city or county. 3.2.1. Entry to a contest may be restricted on an area, club membership, or invitational basis. It may also be restricted to the members of a particular industry or service. It is essential, however, that these restrictions be spelled out in detail on the application for sanction so that the Contest Coordinator may decide whether conflicts exist. For example, an armed forces contest would not conflict with a civilian contest. Similarly, a manufacturer’s invitational would not conflict with a club contest. These will be listed as Class B contests. No protected drawing area criteria will be applied to Class B contests.
3.3. Class A Contest. A contest with unrestricted entry (to AMA members) that contains at least one (1) rule book event.
ETC. ETC.
The word CONTEST, meaning some form of competition, separates the A AAAA contests from the "B" Contest which has restricted entry. Class B has NO PROTECTED area. Of course the Cont. Coordinator may catch some possible problems between a "B" and local clubs, then advise the sponsors thereof and maybe solve any issues for all concerned. IMO, A GOOD C.C. will resolve for all concerned. I like to think I was a good one way back then.
In the noncompetitive end, the Class C events, can be either competitive or non competitive. "C" is open to all AMA members, and receives the same separation as a Class A Contest. A noncompetitive "C" event restricted to for example IMAA members, is classified Class "Cr" (C Restricted) and therefore receives NO separation protection.
Therefore, IMO, neither the Joe Nall, or the Top Gun is an AMA Event. The only AMA Events are those that AMA sponsors such as the NATs, FAI Championships, and the specialty events they host. All private events are just that private events sponsored by the Hosts, and possibly sanctioned by AMA. Now AMA sent paid staff to entertain at THEIR "Grand Events" around the country and to Sandy Frank's private shows up in the Ft. Worth area for some 3 years. Also I believe there is (was some years ago) an AMA booth at the big Hobby Show in Chicago each year. Way back when the Greater Chicago Radio Control Association hosted a show for a few years, and I was the D-VI DVP, I hosted two booths myself. At least there was an AMA presence which I think is both appropriate and proper protocol for any large annual event.
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I'm going to have to step in on another thread and remind everybody to keep the personal insults out of the threads here. We got away from that type of post for awhile earlier this year, but now I see members trying to start that type of posting again. It has no place here in this forum any longer. If you can't post your message without personally insulting other members then don't post.
Ken
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Thanx Hoss. It is a little easier to understand after we declare that there can be non-competition contests . I guess that contest is like the One Name Ballot. [)]
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