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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 7:13:06 AM   
maverick



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I am looking for an entry level pattern ship that I can use for Sportsman class.

It must be an ARF and it must be suitable for an OS FS-70 II engine. I would also prefer fixed landing gear.

Any suggestions?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 8:55:09 AM   
dgrant



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The one I was going to recommend was the Zen50. I caught the part about the "fixed gear" just before the page changed.
I can tell you that the Zen is one of the best in it's class for entry level pattern ARF. I have mine with an OS 70 4-stroke, mounted inverted. Just flew it today about 4 hrs ago matter of fact. It's nothing short of "Corvette" performance in an ARF package.
The retracts are a no brainer for me, set them up and leave them alone. The fuel tank is the only area I've had trouble with, and that is well in hand now. I posted the situation in the ARF forum this morning. Just a shrunk plug in it.
Mine still looks like new after almost a year and at least 60 flights or more. Unlimited with the 70 and a 12x7 prop.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 9:09:36 AM   
maverick



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I was actually thinking of the Kyosho Sensation 1400 ARF. Any comments on this one?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 10:45:53 AM   
dgrant



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Yes it is a real nice one. I didn't even think about that one Mav. I've got Zen of the mind. It comes from looking at one all the time I guess.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 8:48:07 PM   
maverick



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Here's another question. What is the difference between the Zen and Tai Ji series from World Models?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/13/2002 11:10:59 AM   
dgrant



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The Zen has a broader(read taller) fusalage, and by looks seems to have more area, and the canopy is further forward on Zen, TaiJai has a sleeker look, especially in cowling/canopy area. Zen does seem to knife edge better then TaiJai. Also the wings are slighly different in configuration. Both are still double tapered though.

The Zen has counter-balance on both elevators and rudder. TaiJai does not. The belly pan attatches slightly different on the Zen, it has alignment wires and the whole pan removes from the rear wing-mount to the firewall. TaiJai only removes the width of wing-chord, this could make difficult removing if you run a tuned pipe.

At one time not to long ago, I had both Zen and TaiJai. I sold the TaiJai. TaiJai had a .46 w/pipe(2-stroke), flew really good and solid. I would say if describing it using a car as example, it might be Z-28 performance. Fast, good handling, kind of pipey though due to engine pipe combo, and it was loud with a definate power band. Very good vertical but would fall off if not hit just right, and it was high although limited.

My Zen I still have, and it's one of my favorites. OS70 4-stroke, stock exhaust. This plane/engine combo has absolutely unlimited vertical. It's not as fast as the 2stroke was, but it has so much more torque it's pathetic. Idle along, point nose up gas and go. Like I said it's not real fast, but handling wise would be a tricked out Corvette with bells and whistles. Yet it's very smooth when you ask it. Turns on dimes though.

This is only my experience with these planes. The Zen seems to fit my style of flying. Maybe it's the engine combo too. Don't know that one. I've also known guys that really like TaiJai too. I thought I did until I met Zen.

Also small trivia on Zen, it was designed by Christophe Paysant Le-Roux. One of the TOC 's finest. He also designed the "Madness" 3-D plane. If you look at Zen and look at Madness side by side(I did) they look strikingly similar in overall lines although Madness is total 3-D and a very enhanced version, and the craftmanship really shows. Madness is a REALLY nice ARF if you can get them. We're talking sport pattern here though, sorry didn't mean to get lost there.
Mav, look around and see if anyone has them around your area, and look each one over carefully.
If you want a good look at a Zen, come on over to Fresno. I've got the Zen50, and there's also a very nice guy that has the TaiJai60 w/YS91(real nice plane).
Good luck to you , I hope this helps.

< Message edited by DGrant -- Mar 13 2002 6:16AM >

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/13/2002 2:26:37 PM   
Rcaerosport



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Check out http://www.shivlal.com.sg/ They are dealers for WM in our region, and also sell a whole bunch of Japanese and other RC products. And, they have some combo packages too. Not sure how the prices weigh out, but have a look.

DGrant: I don't think the Zen was design by Christophe Pysant Le Roux . I'm not sure where you got this info from. He designed the Top Line by EZ and now the Trip 3D by Kyosho. For one, there is no mention on anywhere of CPLR...

The Tai Ji was based on a design on another Pattern Plane in Asia, and the Zen is an updated model, leaning towards freestyle, like the G-Trick. More for the current trend, with wider bodies, and wing changes, for snaps.


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zen .50 - 3/13/2002 8:29:13 PM   
cloudbuster-RCU


 

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[QUOTE]The retracts are a no brainer for me, set them up and leave them alone.The Zen has counter-balance on both elevators and rudder.[/QUOTE]


what happen with the retracts they are weak or what.
And the counter-balance for elevator and rudder I think the zen .50 don't have it.
I have the modelSPORT video magazine and they show the construction of the zen 120 and don't have counter-balance.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/13/2002 9:22:36 PM   
maverick



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The Zen 50 seems OK but I would still prefer something with fixed landing gear. Any other comments on the Kyosho Sensation?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/13/2002 11:41:28 PM   
NCC-1701



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Try a Zen 90. Larger and flies very well. Also you get alot for your money with the Zens.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 1:12:37 AM   
maverick



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by NCC-1701
Try a Zen 90. Larger and flies very well.[/QUOTE]

This is for an OS FS-70 II so the Zen 90 would be too big.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 1:12:54 AM   
SMALLFLY-



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I have never flown the sensation but a fellow flier has flown his lots while I was there. His comments were the plane doesnt snap roll very well. good knife edge with just a little coupling and good straight lines, but the inability to snap quickly dissapointed him, Have you looked at the KAOS..
either bridi or tower. they are inexpensive and make good beginner pattern planes If you build the kit and enlarge the rudder a bit. My 60 size kaos-modified fly's up to intermediate quite nicely

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 1:58:39 AM   
dgrant



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cloudbuster, you better look a little closer. I own a Zen with counterbalance on rudd/elev. And absolutely no problem with the retracts. I owned the TaiJai, it did not have counterbalance. Read carefully.

As for the CPLR design, I'm going on what I was told by someone in conversation. If this is not the case I stand corrected. It would be interesting to know though. Regardless, it's almost certain it had the same designer as the "Madness". They are just very close to me in the overall lines, with the exception of manufacturing. The Madness is a very nice ARF.
I comment very little on things I don't own, but I'm sharing my experience with what I do/have owned.
There are so many nice planes out. What about the Kangke line, have you looked into those Mav.? They look pretty good from what I've seen. That's about all I can tell you on those. Good luck.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 2:05:08 AM   
maverick



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Dale,

After reading your posts and doing some more research I am probably going to get the Zen 50. I will mate it with my OS FS-70 II and it should be a good combination.

I did look at the Kangke line but they were either too big or too small for the FS-70.

I haven't decided yet on whether to run the stock muffler or go for one of the Macs pipe products. I believe there is a channel down the centre of the plane to run the pipe. Is this correct?

How did balancing go with the OS 70?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 2:21:27 AM   
cloudbuster-RCU


 

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The zen .50 can hover with the YS .63 and get out fast and furious or maybe a OS .61 FX make the job better.

DGrant put a picture from the tail of the zen 50 if you have

Today I see this plane Avance .46 from GLOBAL the spec:
cost $189.99

Wing Span: 57 Inches
Wing Area: 600 Square Inches
Overall Length: 55.5 Inches
Flying Weight: 5.25 -5.75
Wing Loading: 20.2-22.1

more info

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/123818.asp

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