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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 10:13 AM   
maverick


 

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From: Alameda, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I am looking for an entry level pattern ship that I can use for Sportsman class.

It must be an ARF and it must be suitable for an OS FS-70 II engine. I would also prefer fixed landing gear.

Any suggestions?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 11:55 AM   
DGrant



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Status: offline 		The one I was going to recommend was the Zen50. I caught the part about the "fixed gear" just before the page changed.
I can tell you that the Zen is one of the best in it's class for entry level pattern ARF. I have mine with an OS 70 4-stroke, mounted inverted. Just flew it today about 4 hrs ago matter of fact. It's nothing short of "Corvette" performance in an ARF package.
The retracts are a no brainer for me, set them up and leave them alone. The fuel tank is the only area I've had trouble with, and that is well in hand now. I posted the situation in the ARF forum this morning. Just a shrunk plug in it.
Mine still looks like new after almost a year and at least 60 flights or more. Unlimited with the 70 and a 12x7 prop.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 12:09 PM   
maverick


 

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Status: offline 		I was actually thinking of the Kyosho Sensation 1400 ARF. Any comments on this one?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 1:45 PM   
DGrant



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Status: offline 		Yes it is a real nice one. I didn't even think about that one Mav. I've got Zen of the mind. It comes from looking at one all the time I guess.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/11/2002 11:48 PM   
maverick


 

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From: Alameda, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Here's another question. What is the difference between the Zen and Tai Ji series from World Models?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/13/2002 2:10 PM   
DGrant



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Status: offline 		The Zen has a broader(read taller) fusalage, and by looks seems to have more area, and the canopy is further forward on Zen, TaiJai has a sleeker look, especially in cowling/canopy area. Zen does seem to knife edge better then TaiJai. Also the wings are slighly different in configuration. Both are still double tapered though.

The Zen has counter-balance on both elevators and rudder. TaiJai does not. The belly pan attatches slightly different on the Zen, it has alignment wires and the whole pan removes from the rear wing-mount to the firewall. TaiJai only removes the width of wing-chord, this could make difficult removing if you run a tuned pipe.

At one time not to long ago, I had both Zen and TaiJai. I sold the TaiJai. TaiJai had a .46 w/pipe(2-stroke), flew really good and solid. I would say if describing it using a car as example, it might be Z-28 performance. Fast, good handling, kind of pipey though due to engine pipe combo, and it was loud with a definate power band. Very good vertical but would fall off if not hit just right, and it was high although limited.

My Zen I still have, and it's one of my favorites. OS70 4-stroke, stock exhaust. This plane/engine combo has absolutely unlimited vertical. It's not as fast as the 2stroke was, but it has so much more torque it's pathetic. Idle along, point nose up gas and go. Like I said it's not real fast, but handling wise would be a tricked out Corvette with bells and whistles. Yet it's very smooth when you ask it. Turns on dimes though.

This is only my experience with these planes. The Zen seems to fit my style of flying. Maybe it's the engine combo too. Don't know that one. I've also known guys that really like TaiJai too. I thought I did until I met Zen.

Also small trivia on Zen, it was designed by Christophe Paysant Le-Roux. One of the TOC 's finest. He also designed the "Madness" 3-D plane. If you look at Zen and look at Madness side by side(I did) they look strikingly similar in overall lines although Madness is total 3-D and a very enhanced version, and the craftmanship really shows. Madness is a REALLY nice ARF if you can get them. We're talking sport pattern here though, sorry didn't mean to get lost there.
Mav, look around and see if anyone has them around your area, and look each one over carefully.
If you want a good look at a Zen, come on over to Fresno. I've got the Zen50, and there's also a very nice guy that has the TaiJai60 w/YS91(real nice plane).
Good luck to you , I hope this helps.

< Message edited by DGrant -- Mar 13 2002 6:16AM >

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/13/2002 5:26 PM   
Rcaerosport



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From: Singapore, SINGAPORE
Status: offline 		Check out http://www.shivlal.com.sg/ They are dealers for WM in our region, and also sell a whole bunch of Japanese and other RC products. And, they have some combo packages too. Not sure how the prices weigh out, but have a look.

DGrant: I don't think the Zen was design by Christophe Pysant Le Roux . I'm not sure where you got this info from. He designed the Top Line by EZ and now the Trip 3D by Kyosho. For one, there is no mention on anywhere of CPLR...

The Tai Ji was based on a design on another Pattern Plane in Asia, and the Zen is an updated model, leaning towards freestyle, like the G-Trick. More for the current trend, with wider bodies, and wing changes, for snaps.


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zen .50 - 3/13/2002 11:29 PM   
cloudbuster-RCU


 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]The retracts are a no brainer for me, set them up and leave them alone.The Zen has counter-balance on both elevators and rudder.[/QUOTE]


what happen with the retracts they are weak or what.
And the counter-balance for elevator and rudder I think the zen .50 don't have it.
I have the modelSPORT video magazine and they show the construction of the zen 120 and don't have counter-balance.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 12:22 AM   
maverick


 

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Status: offline 		The Zen 50 seems OK but I would still prefer something with fixed landing gear. Any other comments on the Kyosho Sensation?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 2:41 AM   
NCC-1701



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Status: offline 		Try a Zen 90. Larger and flies very well. Also you get alot for your money with the Zens.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 4:12 AM   
maverick


 

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From: Alameda, CA, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by NCC-1701
Try a Zen 90. Larger and flies very well.[/QUOTE]

This is for an OS FS-70 II so the Zen 90 would be too big.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 4:12 AM   
SMALLFLY-



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Status: offline 		I have never flown the sensation but a fellow flier has flown his lots while I was there. His comments were the plane doesnt snap roll very well. good knife edge with just a little coupling and good straight lines, but the inability to snap quickly dissapointed him, Have you looked at the KAOS..
either bridi or tower. they are inexpensive and make good beginner pattern planes If you build the kit and enlarge the rudder a bit. My 60 size kaos-modified fly's up to intermediate quite nicely

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 4:58 AM   
DGrant



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Status: offline 		cloudbuster, you better look a little closer. I own a Zen with counterbalance on rudd/elev. And absolutely no problem with the retracts. I owned the TaiJai, it did not have counterbalance. Read carefully.

As for the CPLR design, I'm going on what I was told by someone in conversation. If this is not the case I stand corrected. It would be interesting to know though. Regardless, it's almost certain it had the same designer as the "Madness". They are just very close to me in the overall lines, with the exception of manufacturing. The Madness is a very nice ARF.
I comment very little on things I don't own, but I'm sharing my experience with what I do/have owned.
There are so many nice planes out. What about the Kangke line, have you looked into those Mav.? They look pretty good from what I've seen. That's about all I can tell you on those. Good luck.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 5:05 AM   
maverick


 

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From: Alameda, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Dale,

After reading your posts and doing some more research I am probably going to get the Zen 50. I will mate it with my OS FS-70 II and it should be a good combination.

I did look at the Kangke line but they were either too big or too small for the FS-70.

I haven't decided yet on whether to run the stock muffler or go for one of the Macs pipe products. I believe there is a channel down the centre of the plane to run the pipe. Is this correct?

How did balancing go with the OS 70?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 5:21 AM   
cloudbuster-RCU


 

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From: fayetteville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		The zen .50 can hover with the YS .63 and get out fast and furious or maybe a OS .61 FX make the job better.

DGrant put a picture from the tail of the zen 50 if you have

Today I see this plane Avance .46 from GLOBAL the spec:
cost $189.99

Wing Span: 57 Inches
Wing Area: 600 Square Inches
Overall Length: 55.5 Inches
Flying Weight: 5.25 -5.75
Wing Loading: 20.2-22.1

more info

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/123818.asp

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 5:35 AM   
Legend4



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Status: offline 		Maverick
I have owned the sensation and really enjoyed it. I used it for my first year of pattern. The only thing I was disapointed in was the push rod instalation. Their was no exit holes in the fuse. It would have been nice if they also supplied a paper template showing the correct way to bend the push rods. To me this would have made it much faster and easier to assemble. It is a great flying plane which makes up for this small problem. I still think about getting another one. I would love to see them make one in a 60 size. I would buy one in an instance.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 9:12 AM   
PineBaron



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Status: offline 		Mav,

I will agree with everything everyone said about the ZEN50 except that (and its only me) I have had a few problems with the retracts; yeah, my landings are near perfect now and I have stopped breaking any gear. In the air it is nothing short of spectacular in its performance. I have a YZ63 with a 12x7 apc; it is fast and flies as if on rails; inverted, knife edge, loops, very very low passes about 6in from the ground and then a vertical to almost out of sight.... you get the idea Mav.

I was keen on getting the ZEN90, 120 or even the 140 next, I picked up a Calypso with YZ91 on this site instead, be here soon.
The ZEN90 will not go with the OS70, you will need at least a YZ91, Saito 100 or like someone I know flew it with a Saito180.

There is nothing like it in its price range, not that I know of.

If constant speed is what grabs you, go for the ZEN50.

Let us know how you make out with the flying.

Vim

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 9:15 AM   
DGrant



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Status: offline 		cloudbuster, I'll work on a pic soon. The cam is on the blink at the moment. I can get the one from my wifes office.
The Zen comes with pull-pull rudder system. I replaced it with the Dubro pull-pull kit, and also replace the elevator doweling with a hardwood dowel(it comes with balsa, and I couldn't see balsa for this). Also replaced all clevis's with sullivan's on the elevator's. Actually when it boils down to it, I replaced all hardware to the rear control surfaces. What it came with seemed just a bit cheesy to go on this plane.
Mav, I ended up choosing the Zen much like you possibly. I acquired a very strong running OS70 surpassII. I installed it on an older plane I have that had the older OS61FS. That old plane came to life with the .70. I knew I had to have a new airframe for the 70. Zen had just come out. No-one had one. It looked good, and so I went for it. After the Zen went out with me first time, I sold the TaiJai. It really is an awesome combo. If you go with it, reduce your throws on first flights. The only other one at my club field lasted 30 seconds, the guy had way to much throw and it was severly fast. You can't even count the rolls when turned up. In forward flight it's really not fast, but very smooth and reactive. It's nearly as fast vertically too. I run a 12x8 prop, this tachs the engine at around 10,100 to 10, 400, around there. Lands very easily. Slows down very nicely.
Mav, take your time though, and enjoy it, whatever you get. That 70 will go nice in all kinds of things.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 10:58 AM   
maverick


 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by PineBaron
I will agree with everything everyone said about the ZEN50 except that (and its only me) I have had a few problems with the retracts;[/QUOTE]

That is why I would prefer fixed landing gear. I have a World Models P-51 and the retracts need almost constant attention even with good landings.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 9:50 PM   
stevezero



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Status: offline 		Maverick,

I just picked up a Kyosho Majestic that I am going to use with a 70 surpass on it. They are a little fat in the weight dept, but to it is a strong airframe. All the covering on the top of the wings and tail add to the weight drastically. I was able to strip the tops and weight the scraps, 4.5 oz of covering material. Using hi-tec 225s on the tail (6 wire pull pull), standards in the wings (made a silly mistake there, shoulda went with minis that were cut out already). Even with the big 70 on the nose, it looks like it will come out around 5- 5 1/2 lbs. I have been toying around with putting an os 50 sx two stroke on it, which would lighten it up a bit more, or maybe a saito 72 4stroke, to get the power of the 4c, and the weight of a 2c. Obviously, I havent gotten the powerplant yet. Since I am recovering most of the plane to my particular tastes, I can do a couple of small mods. Going to sink a square 1600 nimh battery near the tail, to counterbalance the weight of the motor in the nose.

I don't think I will compete with it, just use it to keep the thumbs proportional, instead of banging them around with my magic.

Steve

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/14/2002 10:55 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		How bout the WM Intruder 90? Don't think I will ever get round to building a Towers Kaos 60.

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Global Freestyle versus Kyosho Majestic - 3/15/2002 3:47 AM   
cloudbuster-RCU


 

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From: fayetteville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		The freestyle is a pattern plane or 3d?
freestyle spec:

Wing Span: 55 inches
Wing Area: 700 square inches
Length: 54 inches
Weight Ready to Fly: 5-5.5 pounds
Wing Loading: 16.5 to 18 ounces per square foot

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/123814.asp

Majestic spec:

Wing Span: 53 inches
Wing Area: 518 square inches
Length: 52 inches
Weight Ready to Fly: 5.8 pound
Wing Loading: 24.5 ounces per square foot

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/15/2002 4:06 AM   
stevezero



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Status: offline 		I've flown them both (not much, but enough to see the differences). The freestyle has a longer non tapered wing, similar to a fun-fly wing on a pattern fuse. The majestic has a double tapered, thinner wing.The freestyle also has mammoth control surfaces, where as the majestic has smaller surfaces that are geared more towards precision. Depending on what you would want to do with the plane would really determine what youd want to purchase. The freestyle is a good bang around plane, would do great waterfalls, spins etc, whereas the majestic will do very crisp knifeedge 8's and other pattern maneuvers. The 200 sq inch wing difference is definately visible. The majestic will stall at a faster speed than the freestyle, and its snaps will be more violent, because it doesnt have the wing area to recover. The wing ribs are spaced farther apart on the freestyle, so its wing would theorhetically be weaker under the same stress loads.


I am looking at enlarging the elevator with counterbalances on my majestic, and building a new, larger wing with about 600 squares, and about 20-33% more aileron area. That would put it somewhere close to the seduction series of planes, or a 40 sized gtrick. I will wait till I smack it first before doing those mods.

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/15/2002 4:41 AM   
SwampFlier-RCU



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Status: offline 		Is the wing on teh freestyle balsa/plywood or is it balsa sheeted with foam core?

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Entry Level Pattern Ship? - 3/15/2002 5:26 AM   
stevezero



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From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		foam outer panels, balsa inbound

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