Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (Full Version)

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KentuckyColonel -> Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/29/2008 8:28:19 PM)

Nothing else to say.. other than the cause is obvious. I forgot to put Fritz in the cockpit before the flight! How can a plane fly without a pilot? Watch the video and you'll see! They don't!



jmohn -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/29/2008 8:57:11 PM)

That's sad to see! Sorry about your loss [:(] Did you determine what happened?


Jeff



KentuckyColonel -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/29/2008 9:05:23 PM)

Left aileron came loose. Seems that the CA didn't seep in as well as it should have. This was my first build bigger than a .46 and no one bothered to tell me little secrets, like using pins to help secure the hinges. Next time, trust me, they'll be pinned!



jmohn -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/29/2008 9:24:11 PM)

I had one just like that with a P40. Total loss on that plane too. It was a great looking plane!



Evil_Merlin -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/29/2008 9:36:24 PM)

Ouch.

Sorry for your lost KC! I know how much of a pain it was for you just to get the darn thing!



mboland -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/29/2008 9:50:27 PM)

Sorry to see such a nice war bird go in.[:@] And it started flying so nicely

It does look fixable.

Don't you just love all the great advice you get when you take the carcass back to the pits.
My first big ARF, a Spitfire with a 90ST in it, lost the elevator on the 5th flight. First comments "didn't you pin the hinges? you should always pin the hinges"
Thanks for telling me AFTER the event [:(]



KentuckyColonel -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/29/2008 9:55:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mboland

Sorry to see such a nice war bird go in.[:@] And it started flying so nicely

It does look fixable.

Don't you just love all the great advice you get when you take the carcass back to the pits.
My first big ARF, a Spitfire with a 90ST in it, lost the elevator on the 5th flight. First comments "didn't you pin the hinges? you should always pin the hinges"
Thanks for telling me AFTER the event [:(]

I think we have the same people in the pits!



Corsair 29 -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/29/2008 11:27:48 PM)

That right horizontal stab doesn't look right. It seems like it's bent or bending downward as soon as you took off. Can you verify this? I paused it during the climb.



KentuckyColonel -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 12:29:50 AM)

Both right and left had a very slight equal downward angle. I looked at the video and think I see what you saw, and it was nowhere near how it looked in the video. Both were still in place after the crash.



Adonis -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 1:18:01 AM)

I would bet money on reversed ailerons. It goes through the typical gyrations of reversed aileron flight. Gradual turn to the left and then the bank increases as the modeler tries to compensate, eventually it’s in a full spin. When it get inverted in a few spins in frustration and confusion the modeler gives full opposite aileron and it spins the other way, I’ve seen it many times. I watched the video very closely and the ailerons are firmly attached, at least until impact when most likely the servo came loose and tor the aileron off.
Here are some videos of what I mean:
Reversed aileron videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cwmT5hmI3U

Another reversed aileron video!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikJV7b54T4I

It happens to us all[:D]



mobyal -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 1:23:25 AM)

Man
Sorry to see that happen. I feel your pain!
What engine's in there and how did it fare? OK? I sure hope so.
Al



KentuckyColonel -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 1:51:04 AM)

Luck was on my side as far as hardware goes. I tested all the components and everything turned out fine. I don't think it was reversed ailerons. I checked it several times over the past several weeks, as well as having others check it. And unless my Spektrum DX7 reversed them from the time I checked them in preflight and the time it lifted off. I would almost rather have that been the cause, at least then it wouldn't have been from some stupid building mistake. Not saying it wasn't the cause. Funny thing, I'm not all the upset about it. Maybe she was meant to crash from the time the jerk I bought it from on e-bay. Good experience in the build though.
Just checked my radio......just in case. Ailerons are not reversed in it.



KentuckyColonel -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 1:54:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Adonis

I would bet money on reversed ailerons. It goes through the typical gyrations of reversed aileron flight. Gradual turn to the left and then the bank increases as the modeler tries to compensate, eventually it’s in a full spin. When it get inverted in a few spins in frustration and confusion the modeler gives full opposite aileron and it spins the other way, I’ve seen it many times. I watched the video very closely and the ailerons are firmly attached, at least until impact when most likely the servo came loose and tor the aileron off.
Here are some videos of what I mean:
Reversed aileron videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cwmT5hmI3U

Another reversed aileron video!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikJV7b54T4I

It happens to us all[:D]

Just watched the videos. That Mustang was nice...



Black Drape -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 6:49:25 AM)

KC

Dang that's a dirty shame. I agree with you I don't think your ailerons were reversed. It looks like it started to spin to the left and then it ended up spinning to the right. Do you think it might have stalled? My Zero took off just like your 190, climbing straight up, I'm very lucky it didn't stall. I ended up with full down trim to get it to fly level. I noticed in your video that the elevater hinges had come loose, if they had come loose in the air, that could have caused a stall. I did not use the hinges that came with my kit, I used Dubro pinned hinges. I'm not real crazy about ca hinges especially on a nice model like yours. Sure too bad, very sorry to see that happen.
Ron



vertical grimmace -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 7:21:34 AM)

It does look like a stall and then a secondary stall the other way. Especially if you had a lower power setting. That angle of attack was very steep for a model like that especially for not being at full power.



G-Pete -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 2:11:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adonis
I would bet money on reversed ailerons. It goes through the typical gyrations of reversed aileron flight. Gradual turn to the left and then the bank increases as the modeler tries to compensate, eventually it’s in a full spin. When it get inverted in a few spins in frustration and confusion the modeler gives full opposite aileron and it spins the other way, I’ve seen it many times. I watched the video very closely and the ailerons are firmly attached, at least until impact when most likely the servo came loose and tor the aileron off.
Here are some videos of what I mean:
Reversed aileron videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cwmT5hmI3U
Another reversed aileron video!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikJV7b54T4I
It happens to us all[:D]


Yesterday when I watched that video I thought exactly the same. But I did not post my thought.
Today I watched the video a few times in slow motion and could not find anything wrong or loose on the airframe.
What I noticed was right in this moment when the airplane started to bank to the left, someone shouted out loud. It appears to me it was the pilot. It supposed to make a right bank.
As you stated, it happen to the best. We all do our little stupid things, it never happened to me (reversed aileron) but I lost airplanes like, not flying with extended antenna – hehehe

Here is a video of a Seagull Yak 54, watch closely how the aileron comes loose on that airplane. It got dragged for awhile and then departed. The Yak looses a lot lift because almost 1/3 of the wing is gone you will see what happen…

click here for the video

Anyhow, sorry for your loss Kentucky. It looks like you just plugged wrong…




Walt Thyng -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 2:41:20 PM)

Have to agree on the reversed ailerons. It looks like a classic case. It didn't snap or yaw, it just rolled like it was following a command. There were some gaps in the video, but I didn't see a control check before taking the runway. The last time I was out at the field I had gotten my old faithful VK Cherokee ready to fly at home and was absolutely sure everything was right. Nope! When I did a control check before taking the runway I noticed the left aileron acting funny. Back to the bench where I found that in my meticulous preparation I had not tightened the push rod connector. Check, check and check again, just like full scale.
Walt



WacoNut -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 4:43:32 PM)

To me it looks a little tail heavy??
How did the balance check? IT looks like it was struggleing to get the nose down and it just snapped left then right with aileron correction. A tail heavy plane is a bear to control.
Just a thought!!
Anthony



roy batty -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 5:02:12 PM)

If it was going to snap and stall, it would have happened during that initial climb after takeoff.

The reversed aileron idea has merit, but if KC says he double checked and they were correct, then that only leaves some potential failure of the radio or a connection for the radio system.

I just watched a similar thing happen to a friend Kyosho Spitfire and it looks as though a "noisy" servo may have been the culprit in that case.



7aso -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 5:17:38 PM)

That's sad. Sorry about your loss...



KentuckyColonel -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (4/30/2008 11:09:50 PM)

Thanks for all the input everyone. Now I am second guessing my second guesses of my second guesses! The shoot up take off came when I still had a lot of elevator to hold the tail down on the take off roll. I had just begun to release the elevator to raise the tail, when she rose and then shot up. I corrected the high rate of climb and she began to fly level, no aileron input was given. She started banking into a left turn, so I gave right input to correct. She did not respond, but continued to roll. Then after a complete roll, she suddenly snapped right, going into the death spiral. I did, at that point, have the stick as far right as it would go, and did throughout that left roll. I called out that I was loosing it when she did not respond to the right input I was giving. Good thing is a thirty second flight (including taxi out) did not give me enough time to get attached to her! I never even got a chance to cycle my Robart spring/air retracts! DAMN!
I use the Spektrum DX7 radio and an Spektrum AR6200 Rx.



martenson -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (5/1/2008 8:58:15 PM)

Sorry to say, but I think reversed aileron.
I have seen it closed up at our fieled and it looks the same all the time.

Hope you rebuild it, it's not a total loss.

Take care.



ticketec -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (5/2/2008 12:15:43 PM)

Hey KC,

What a shame!!!! really sad to see her go in after all that work, but i hope you get back on the horse and build another!!! mine should be ready soon..... i hope!

Thanks

dave



KentuckyColonel -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (5/2/2008 5:11:45 PM)

Dave,
Thanks. I enjoyed the learning aspect of building the FW 190. I thought it turned out looking pretty good too. I'm sure it would have looked even better had I gone ahead and decided to go with the nice wing accessories from you. Maybe she would have flown better! I will, most likely, build another some time soon, but now it's time to assemble the little 52 inch P-38. It'll be my first twin engine plane. We'll see how that goes. I'm not going to spend as much time on this one. Just throw her together per the instructions and see what happens! I'll still be following the thread on your build. Your FW 190 is looking really good!



rc2007 -> RE: Death of a WillHobby FW 190 (5/6/2008 6:55:34 AM)

Tail heavy....never trust chinese center of gravity. All ways add extra nose weight.



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