Using a winch

Using a winch (Full Version)

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marc 540 -> Using a winch (5/6/2008 7:26:36 AM)
Hi all, Just wondering how much room I need to use a winch? Also how much alltitude can you get with a winch? Thanks' Marc 540[8D]

da Rock -> RE: Using a winch (5/6/2008 11:59:06 AM)
Room is a function of the winch's power. If they have the guts, the sky is the limit. yeah.... lame joke, but true enough. Since you're asking, it means you don't have one. The answer actually depends on what you're planning to get. Most of the ones I've used (never bothered to buy or make one) were hulkers. And they all would produce 1/4 or more launch height that the largest high-start we had would give. The reason most guys got/made 'em was to launch the bigger birds. Some extra launch height was kewl, but most people really didn't notice the extra height. You really don't notice it with most gliders. But you do notice the problems a big glider has with high starts. what do you want to launch? And what winch are you thinking about getting?

da Rock -> RE: Using a winch (5/6/2008 12:10:10 PM)
I think Tower says their big high start needs 800' for use and gives 500' of altitude. In practice, with the right wind, you can let out more line on a winch launch than you started with. Plus, with both a winch and a decent high start, you can get more altitude than "line length". It's easier to do with a winch however. "Line length" ..... For a highstart, how much line you've got attached and how long the rubber is when stretched. Or for a winch, how far the footpedal is from the turnaround.

isoar -> RE: Using a winch (5/7/2008 10:43:00 PM)
Rock gave some good input there. Let me add that a winch is versitile in that you can set it up very long if you field allows it or very short if it does not. Short for landing practice or more challange and long for the high launches begineers want/need. Caution, a winch will rip the wings off all but the expensive contest ships if you don't tap the on/off pedal to regulate the line tension. For this reason, they are not the best choice for begineers with no experianced help around. Hi-starts are simple for begineers.

marc 540 -> RE: Using a winch (5/9/2008 7:53:01 AM)
Hey guys, I'm flying the Bird of time with the HD hi-start from tower. (100' tubing and 350' line plus 350 foot streach) Our runway's are only about 600' so I'm streaching about 200 feet into the empty corn or bean field's and I won't be able to do this when they plant the field's. I think I'm getting about 400 to 500 foot launches but I was wondering if I could get the same launch hight within our 600' runway's by using a winch? So my main question is can I get 400 to 500 foot winch launches with only 600 feet of space? I have a 2 meter X models Whisper on the way for my next sailplane. Any suggestion/tip's for that bird? I got the no flap's version so I was wondering about flaperon or spoileron mixing or possibly elevator to flap mixing. Thanks' Marc 540[8D]

da Rock -> RE: Using a winch (5/9/2008 2:41:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marc 540 Hey guys, I'm flying the Bird of time with the HD hi-start from tower. (100' tubing and 350' line plus 350 foot streach) Our runway's are only about 600' so I'm streaching about 200 feet into the empty corn or bean field's and I won't be able to do this when they plant the field's. I think I'm getting about 400 to 500 foot launches but I was wondering if I could get the same launch hight within our 600' runway's by using a winch? So my main question is can I get 400 to 500 foot winch launches with only 600 feet of space? I have a 2 meter X models Whisper on the way for my next sailplane. Any suggestion/tip's for that bird? I got the no flap's version so I was wondering about flaperon or spoileron mixing or possibly elevator to flap mixing. Thanks' Marc 540[8D] Yes, and no. Mostly no. Launch height is limited by the length of free line. The free line is whatever stretches from the ground point to the glider. With a hi-start, the ground point is the spike that pins one end of the rubber. With a winch, the ground point is the turnaround. The hi-start has the disadvantage that the rubber shortens as the launch progresses. But there is a detail that works for hi-starts. The rubber will still be stretched somewhat at the moment of release. Not much profit with that, but on windy days......... On windy days, both the hi-start and winch can allow the experienced glider flyer to "fly a kite". You can actually let out line on a winch, and you can stretch the rubber back out on a hi-start. Yeah, you're doing that with the glider DURING the launch, as the sucker is arcing skyward. That's about the only way to get more altitude than line. And of course, that ignores "pinging" the release. That's where you tuck the nose slightly just before release to get more airspeed for a zoom right after release.

aeajr -> RE: Using a winch (5/11/2008 11:53:24 AM)
In general I would say you can get higher launches using a winch than a hi-start for a given field size. So in 600 feet a winch will give you higher launches than a hi-start in 600 feet. However part of how the winch does that is by being more powerful on the launch and giving you more control. Control means that you can determine how strong a pull you have on the launch by tapping the control pedal. And you get power control all they way through the launch. A high start has max pull when you release the plane and it becomes less and less as the launch progresses. However the big launch gain is the zoom off the winch. The ability to accelorate the plane just before you release then go into a 45 degree or steeper angle with that accumulated speed. The down side of the winch is that you can rip the wings off your plane if you do not carefully control the pull. The Bird of time ARF has a reuputation of failures on the winch because people over stressed them on the launch. Our club winches have 250 pound test line on them, and I have seen people break the line with the forece they apply on the launch. That means 250 pounds of pull on the glider. YOu can do that with very very strong wings, but the typical woody can't take that. When learnnig to use a winch I sent my Spirit and my Sagitta 600 to the repair table several times because I overstressed the wings. I have never seen a wing failure of an undamaged wing using a hi-start. The Dynaflite HD is not a very strong hi-start. You might try a stronger hi-start wtih a shorter line. The Pinnacle Large is stronger than your hi-start. Should give you hgher launches within your field than your current hi-start can provide. http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=874

Hans Dahl Christensen -> RE: Using a winch (5/11/2008 12:44:56 PM)
Hello Mark. How high ? With a suitable winsch ( a Winsch with is after the rules and regulations in the FAI - F3B page ) i can get my F3J - model - 2,3 kg - 3,2 m span ) to a height of cirka 25o meter wwith the usual zoom-off ( or ping if you like ) with a 400 m. line and a turn around -pulley - wich means that you have 200 m. effective line length from pulley to model. The winsch is an electric devise ! It is possible to get bigger heights is you use a longer line say 800 m and a disatnce to turn around pulley of 400 m. You might benefit from contacting some of the F3B and F3J - people in your neighbourhood. It is posssible to buy such winches at sevaral specialised suppliers such as : www.fluehs-winden.de - www.graupner.de and others. It is possible to build your own winsch - if you have the urge and possibilities to do so. An FAI - F3B winsch is capable of pulling up an 4kg scalesoarer. Good luck. KR hld - OY-9901

WO -> RE: Using a winch (6/11/2008 9:46:54 PM)
Hi I have used my Little Big Winch for about 900 launches and just bought my second battery, I use 1200 feet of #36 line that will give me about 400 ft. at release. The only problem is looking for thermals here in the desert of CA as usually there is very little or too much. This little winch will launch a 4 meter plane with authority. Good Luck Soaring. wo

OzMo -> RE: Using a winch (6/12/2008 5:06:24 AM)
also check out hosemonster.com nice product line and nice service [:D]

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