RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Warbirds and Warplanes >> RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild
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RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/16/2008 5:34:15 PM   
iglowhead


 

Posts: 111
Joined: 6/10/2004
From: Waxahachie, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the Fliteskin tip Jeff. I found their website and will give it serious consideration.
Have you used it or know of anyone who has?

Glad to help with the photos Merlin Man.
I don't have much to do until the wings show up. This weekend I hope to work on the rudder & elevator
hinges, install some triangular stock and apply some epoxy on the framing up front, and install the fuel
tank.

Tom

(in reply to Merlin Man)
       Post #: 26

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/16/2008 10:12:52 PM   
WhiteRook



Posts: 893
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: westbrook, ME, USA
Status: offline 		i've got the plans , and the retracts are the big stumbling block with this 51, with the US dollor
not worth much , i think you'll pay arround 6 bills , for the unitract gear, and INMOP
their not worth it . the wing is not designed for robarts. the gear leg is really close to the leading edge, and that creates a problem . IT will demand a modify with other gear

(in reply to iglowhead)
       Post #: 27

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/16/2008 10:56:10 PM   
tony-howard


 

Posts: 284
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: Monroe, WA, USA
Status: offline 		The Unitracts are closely based on Brian Taylor's home-made units with the "mechanicals tidied up a bit" as Unitract's told me. The arrangement he used was necessary to locate the struts in the scale location and get the gear geometry correct, both in the down and retracted positions. I too have questions about their durability.

The problem is it will probably be very difficult to retain the scale appearance with any of the popular retracts in this size. This is one of the reasons almost all the Mustangs on the market today look so non-scale with the gear coming straight out of the wing - it should be raked forward 11° in relation to the wing chord centerline.

I sure hope someone has a solution.

_____________________________

Tony
pacific-scaled-aircraft.com

(in reply to WhiteRook)
       Post #: 28

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 2:13:20 AM   
jeff naul


 

Posts: 476
Joined: 11/3/2003
From: monroe, LA, USA
Status: offline 		so the robarts with the forward gear leg won't work? 622's are for the little pica 51, they may still be a little big for 69" any thought's?

(in reply to tony-howard)
       Post #: 29

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 5:10:16 AM   
tony-howard


 

Posts: 284
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: Monroe, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Jeff, the drawing I have for Robart's #622 show they have a 90° arc. The full scale Mustang has 5° diehedral so what's needed is a retract with an 85° arc. Maybe a cam swap could be done?

I don't have my plans at hand, but I recall that Taylor mounted his retracts with their pivot angled upward in the side view and inward in the top view. And the gear leg was angled forward as well. All this was /is consistent with what was used in the full scale Mustang. And our problem on top of all that is getting the retract mechanism inside the wing!

I haven't found an easy solution. Trying to get it solved perfectly is probably overkill. But I'd sure like to come up with a scale landing gear on my Mustangs.

Sorry about rambling on.





_____________________________

Tony
pacific-scaled-aircraft.com

(in reply to jeff naul)
       Post #: 30

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 1:14:30 PM   
Merlin Man


 

Posts: 102
Joined: 2/18/2004
From: Coffs Harbour, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hi,
I don't know if I am missing something here, but, with a foam wing , can't you angle the retract bodies as you want? Can't you adjust the forward rake and dihedral angle whatever the retract units you choose, by positioning the retract support timber as you want it ?

I understand that determining these angles may not be all that easy, and then transferring these angles to the wing itself wouldn't be that easy either, but I am sure it can be done . Trial and error on a mock up would help.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers,
MM

(in reply to tony-howard)
       Post #: 31

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 2:02:37 PM   
WhiteRook



Posts: 893
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: westbrook, ME, USA
Status: offline 		i think all the retracts back when these plans were designed were mechanical
correct me if i'm wrong

(in reply to tony-howard)
       Post #: 32

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 3:23:03 PM   
iglowhead


 

Posts: 111
Joined: 6/10/2004
From: Waxahachie, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Well if all else fails I can always go with..."choke"...FI..."gag"...FIX...."cough"...FI...."arrgg"....FIXED.."BARF"..GEAR!
Hardy Har Har

The enlarged 60" plans I have are dated 1974. They show fixed gear with no mention of retracts.
They are pretty dated. More than likely they were added later.

You all have me convinced now that this issue will be a real challenge and I will do my very best to install a solid and true to scale system.
I sure don't want to spend big bucks so will be looking real hard for a solution whether retracts are mechanical or pneumatic.
My main concerns are dependability and durability. Sure don't want anything to bend or break and the way I fly......let me just say strong gear is needed.
Scale will have to be a secondary issue.

I think the mock up suggestion is a very good idea. I think I could manage to carve out the pertinent wing section from block of foam to practice on.
Don't want to turn the foam cores into one. They were $50! A built up wing section as a mock up would do just as well as a piece of foam wouldn't it.
After all the foam core will need framing as well.

I am breaking away from any building today. I'm going to the field!
Should be able to get some work in tonight and will have something to show by tomorrows end (I hope).

A big hanks to you all for your comments on retracts. Don't worry about "rambling on". I obviously do it to and I'll take all the input I can get.

Tom

(in reply to WhiteRook)
       Post #: 33

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 3:43:36 PM   
tony-howard


 

Posts: 284
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: Monroe, WA, USA
Status: offline 		You're right, it's not that hard to mount the retracts with the right angles for the pivot angles (top and side view). The scale installation issue is primarily one of finding enough space for the retract mechanism in the wing close to the leading edge. Depending on the brand and whether the leg is cantilevered out in front or not determines that. Brian Taylor's original hand made units were compact and had the legs mounted well forward of the mechanism.

The units Unitracts makes for the Taylor Mustang are available in both mechanical and pneumatic versions. I believe the mechanism is the same for both.

Sorry Tom, I didn't intent to divert your thread over this one point. Let's get back to your restoration.

_____________________________

Tony
pacific-scaled-aircraft.com

(in reply to WhiteRook)
       Post #: 34

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 3:53:37 PM   
tony-howard


 

Posts: 284
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: Monroe, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Tom

Brian Taylor built and published plans for two Mustangs. The first was designed in 1974 and had a 60" wingspan with fixed gear. About 10 years later he built a larger 69" version that did have retracts that were handmade and were shown on the plans.

Unitracts has both sizes, their smaller version being a scaled down version of the 69" edition.

I have both Taylor's versions and plans by the way (none built). Mine are the glass fuselage versions that Bob Holman supplied.

I'm looking forward to seeing a picture of the foam cores you bought.

_____________________________

Tony
pacific-scaled-aircraft.com

(in reply to iglowhead)
       Post #: 35

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 5:47:28 PM   
iglowhead


 

Posts: 111
Joined: 6/10/2004
From: Waxahachie, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Tony,
I don't think you really diverted the thread. I still have the landing gear to do so your posts were pertinent to the build.
I appreciate the input.
The plans I have are enlargements of the 60" model to 74". I am going to take them to Kinko's and reduce a copy to 69".
I am hoping they will help with the foam core parts I will need to make.
I found the Unitracts website. I see they have 69" BT's as follows: mechanicals with oleo struts 135.00 GBP and pneumatic with oleos 230.00 GB.
Not exactly cheap. I would like to hear if anyone has used them and how they held up.
I'll post photos of the cores when they get here. Hope it is soon.
Tom

(in reply to tony-howard)
       Post #: 36

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 6:51:33 PM   
tony-howard


 

Posts: 284
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: Monroe, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Tom

Here's a couple of photo's of my Unitract's. They are for the 60" kit and are the mechanical versions. As I mentioned, they apparently are scaled down versions of the units detailed on Brian Taylor's 69" plans. A couple of comments:

* The dark block at the end of the upper trunnion (Unitract's calls it the 'pintle') is drilled for a (metric) landing gear wire. It's hard to see in the photo, but it's drilled at an angle to rake the leg forward.

* The nylon bushings are intended to be installed in a bulkhead just behind the leading edge to support the 'pintle'. It would seem to be intended to take some stress off the main mounts.

* Note that the mounting flanges are part way up the sides, not at the bottom as we normally expect. This allows the rails to be inlayed into the ribs as opposed to a 'U' shaped recess.

It's really hard to assess how durable this mechanism will be.

Added a 3rd picture ...

HTH



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< Message edited by tony-howard -- 5/17/2008 7:19:20 PM >

_____________________________

Tony
pacific-scaled-aircraft.com

(in reply to iglowhead)
       Post #: 37

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/17/2008 9:50:32 PM   
WhiteRook



Posts: 893
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: westbrook, ME, USA
Status: offline 		the u tracts get alot of play in them , but it depends on your landing style. their really a very light duty retract ,their not much different than the mech robarts , ie 608 HD.

THEIR just seems to be nothing in between the 622 and the 608 robart.

fixed gear isnt all that bad. to be crazy , put a pica 1/6 wing on the BT AND use the 622 r barts
or make your foam wing thicker in the gear area

(in reply to iglowhead)
       Post #: 38

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/18/2008 3:37:40 PM   
SCALECRAFT


 

Posts: 1408
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: MONTEBELLO, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi

A note on the Unitracts.

I have the Unitracts that are for the BT 69" span P-51D. The system is a complete air retract, they even come with scale shock absorbing, dampening strut.

The strut is mounted to the shaft that sets the strut at the maximum forward position at the LE. of the with, as in scale. Support from the LE in my opinion should be included for the shaft when installing the retracts.

The extreme low profile is needed due to the Laminar wing, unlike the smaller BT P-51, which is just the typical "model airplane" rib shape.

Hope the pics show up.

Steve

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(in reply to WhiteRook)
       Post #: 39

RE: Brian Taylor Fiberglass P-51 Rebuild - 5/18/2008 4:29:15 PM   
iglowhead