RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami.....

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami.....
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RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/15/2008 12:11:37 PM

Brent Davis

Posts: 647
Joined: 6/15/2007
From: Waldorf, MD, USA
Status: offline

ziggy,

I don't have the funds that I would like to use towards such a goal but I just don't see a nitor engine not making a strong running against an electric. I am not just talking in a single motor configuration either. How about your three engine monster that never got out of first gear plus you've learned more since then and have made a new chassis, trans and other things. If you got 103 MPH in first gear, what could have been achieved going into second and now that you have a three speed?.......Hmmmmm! I dunno man, I think that the nitros can compete even if it is a custom one off motor built to do so. I like the idea that my engine modder Rick Brake is now coming out with new dual turbo plug heads and a new hydrofoil rod to have a swirl effect on incoming fuel. With innovations like that, I think you can get a nitro to hold it's own.

Good luck out there with your new car too.

(in reply to ziggy12345)

Post #: 76

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/15/2008 9:09:11 PM

ziggy12345

Posts: 285
Joined: 6/20/2003
From: UK
Status: offline

Hi

The HP of an IC engine is the torque of the motor times the revs so at low revs you get very little HP. An electric motor produces the power as a function of the volts and amps availalbe and is pretty much constant through the rev range. I did a quick calc and say a 1hp IC motor will take 10 seconds to accelerate a car to 100. An electric motor with 1 HP will do it in 4.4 seconds as 1HP is availalbe all the time where 1HP from the IC engine is only available at 30,000 revs. This is why i opted for a CVT but its not working yet.

Cheers

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Post #: 77

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/15/2008 10:54:29 PM

ferrarimk13

Posts: 3540
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From: Staten Island, NY, USA
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man, a 5th going 160?! id like to see that, that would be awesome. Ziggy, whats wrong with the CVT?

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Post #: 78

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/15/2008 11:22:23 PM

GYNAIKAS

Posts: 3610
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: Athens/Patras, GREECE
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ziggy12345

Hi

The HP of an IC engine is the torque of the motor times the revs so at low revs you get very little HP. An electric motor produces the power as a function of the volts and amps availalbe and is pretty much constant through the rev range. I did a quick calc and say a 1hp IC motor will take 10 seconds to accelerate a car to 100. An electric motor with 1 HP will do it in 4.4 seconds as 1HP is availalbe all the time where 1HP from the IC engine is only available at 30,000 revs. This is why i opted for a CVT but its not working yet.

Cheers

A DC motor's torque is linear and decreases when rpm increase. A nitro engine's torque is not linear and has a completely different responce. Also the acceleration estimation is not trustworthy cause you need at least 7-8 variables more in order to make a trustworthy calculation for such a complex problem.

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Post #: 79

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/16/2008 12:09:27 AM

Brent Davis

Posts: 647
Joined: 6/15/2007
From: Waldorf, MD, USA
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well Ziggy, I thought the time to get to top speed in the events was not measured in time but distance to get to top speed?

I still love the nitro though and will more than likely stick to it but I will never say never to an electric though. I wonder with a good three speed geared right, could a nitro pull 150+ mph?

(in reply to GYNAIKAS)

Post #: 80

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/16/2008 6:13:53 AM

MiamizFinest

Posts: 4383
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: MIAMI, FL, USA
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Dam you guys are talking big numbers man, ur makeing me feel slow here, on that subject i heard there is a big player in this years worlds fastest RC comp but i have to keep it under raps for now for the sake of the owner of the car, but i talked to a very relable source and from what i was tolled they have set up a 156 MPH nitro car.........yes 156 MPH...... i havent seen video but i know the person i spoke with KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT and no its none of our local guys........so keep an eye for that becuase i know i will since like always i too would like to see some proof

anyways back on subject, i tryed out my new gearing and gained 2 extra MPH giveing me a total top end speed of 105MPH, thanks to my girlfriend who was the one hold the radar gun, she's got nerves of steel since that car was hauling ass 3-4 feet away from her at 105 MPH, i took my laptop to the strip and started caculating my gearing and speed with my friend luis and it turns out i actually lost about 4K RPM so ill have to drop the gearing alittle to see what happens but with this motor i think im pretty much maxed out, not bad for a 600-700 dollar set up with everything bein right off the shelfs and nothing custom on this car im already looking at my new motor of choice hopefully ill be able to get my hands on within the next 2weeks

i would have had video of the 105MPH run but the street i was running didnt have any lights i was basicaly running the car with the light from the moon at 10PM at night and some glowsticks taped on the inside of my windsheild only pic i have for now is this one

hopefully this week ill have a video ready for you guys to check out (miami jato u need to come out to FIU)

also if your wondering how long it takes me to get to speed it actually takes 650 feet to get the car to 105 MPH since geting the car from 0-40 MPH takes so long becuase of lack of traction on the street i run, once the downforce kicks in and the car plants it self on the ground 40-105MPH the car picks up speed instantly here is image from google earth so u can get an idea of the street i ran the car on, the white line is 650 feet mark and at the end of that mark is where my GF radar'd the car the other 300 feet of street u see is what i use to stop the car at 50% brake the car actually stops way before the curve at the end of the street but i give my self room just in case

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Post #: 81

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/16/2008 6:15:03 AM

MiamizFinest

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From: MIAMI, FL, USA
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.

< Message edited by MiamizFinest -- 5/16/2008 5:46:13 PM >

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Post #: 82

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/16/2008 11:58:48 AM

Brent Davis

Posts: 647
Joined: 6/15/2007
From: Waldorf, MD, USA
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WOW! 156 MPH nitro car, now THAT is what I am talking about. I really think that it can be done but what would even more impressive is that if the peeps that you are talking about are doing it with a single engine. Hopefully something will come from this soon as this has my interest at heart. I have never seen it before but I was told that a guy out in Cali went 125 MPH with a single nitro engine in a RS4 2 years ago but I have no proof of it. It was a well known engine porter that told me that since he ported the motor

.

105 MPH and a loss of 4K RPM, damn that is still fast. Man you have a very nice street to do your passes on too. What is the spur and motor gear to get these speeds? What are the motor RPM's that these electrics turn to go that fast? What motors does Nic Case use to go that fast with his 135+ MPH runs? Definately keep us posted as you have an interesting project going on that I may try one day.

(in reply to MiamizFinest)

Post #: 83

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/16/2008 5:53:00 PM

MiamizFinest

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From: MIAMI, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brent Davis

WOW! 156 MPH nitro car, now THAT is what I am talking about. I really think that it can be done but what would even more impressive is that if the peeps that you are talking about are doing it with a single engine. Hopefully something will come from this soon as this has my interest at heart. I have never seen it before but I was told that a guy out in Cali went 125 MPH with a single nitro engine in a RS4 2 years ago but I have no proof of it. It was a well known engine porter that told me that since he ported the motor .

105 MPH and a loss of 4K RPM, damn that is still fast. Man you have a very nice street to do your passes on too. What is the spur and motor gear to get these speeds? What are the motor RPM's that these electrics turn to go that fast? What motors does Nic Case use to go that fast with his 135+ MPH runs? Definately keep us posted as you have an interesting project going on that I may try one day.

actually another little none fact is that hpi supernitro video that has bein seen millions of times of you tube actually did 102 MPH and that video is over 5 or 6 years old around that same time we first broke 100 MPH so breaking 100 MPH with a nitro car isnt anything new

the motor im useing turns a clean 65K , nic cases turns somewhere in the area of 35K BUT he runs a negative gear ratio thats how he gets his car to speed becuase his motor is a tourqe monster, his pinion gear is actually alot bigger than his spur, and he is useing a heli ESC that is made to hold up to 10 cells

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Post #: 84

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/16/2008 9:29:45 PM

ferrarimk13

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From: Staten Island, NY, USA
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yep, hes running a Neu system, from a heli which is pretty easy to get but costs a lot. With 10 cells, that thing would fly, i dont remember how many cells nic used, i tink he used two 3 cell lipos.

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Post #: 85

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/17/2008 7:47:49 AM

ziggy12345

Posts: 285
Joined: 6/20/2003
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ferrarimk13

man, a 5th going 160?! id like to see that, that would be awesome. Ziggy, whats wrong with the CVT?

The CVT takes too much power to rotate as it has some design problems. Its a scalled down version of a large one and the problems with the larger one are multiplied the smaller you get. It is automatic so there is a spring clamping the belt in place to give the friction to turn the pulley. What is needed is a belt at constant tension and a method of incrementing the drive pulley closed and at the same time opening the driven pulley. It has to be a manual system. I have a design on the drawing board but the machining is difficult as I need an 8mm splinned shaft.

The plan is to run the CVT as soon as I am happy with my speed car for this years event. I built the Alien 2 but have now changed my mind and will be building a 2 engine front wheel drive with 1 rear wheel and a 3 speed gearbox. After many iterations the design I'm building has already been done before so nothing new

Cheers

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Post #: 86

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/17/2008 7:55:05 AM

ziggy12345

Posts: 285
Joined: 6/20/2003
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GYNAIKAS

quote:

ORIGINAL: ziggy12345

Hi

The HP of an IC engine is the torque of the motor times the revs so at low revs you get very little HP. An electric motor produces the power as a function of the volts and amps availalbe and is pretty much constant through the rev range. I did a quick calc and say a 1hp IC motor will take 10 seconds to accelerate a car to 100. An electric motor with 1 HP will do it in 4.4 seconds as 1HP is availalbe all the time where 1HP from the IC engine is only available at 30,000 revs. This is why i opted for a CVT but its not working yet.

Cheers

A DC motor's torque is linear and decreases when rpm increase. A nitro engine's torque is not linear and has a completely different responce. Also the acceleration estimation is not trustworthy cause you need at least 7-8 variables more in order to make a trustworthy calculation for such a complex problem.

You are right to say the torque reduces with revs and as Torque x revs = HP you can see the HP of an electric motor will stay constant through the rev range. If you put an electric car on the dyno it shows this. An IC engine torque increases slightly with revs so there is no HP availalble at low revs. In mathmatical terms the RMS power of a 1HP electrical motor is double the RMS power of a 1HP IC motor. And dont forget the quoted figures for an IC engine are more than double the actual HP

Cheers

(in reply to GYNAIKAS)

Post #: 87

RE: A New Terror Hits The Streets Of Miami..... - 5/17/2008 8:02:36 AM

ziggy12345

Posts: 285
Joined: 6/20/2003
From: UK
Status: offline

102mph... 105mph... 130mph and 156mph.... These figures have been banded around for years and thats why we started the Speed Events. I'm not saying they didnt do it but we should have a standard to work to. At the moment the OFFICIAL worlds records are 134.4 for an electric car and 103.0 for an IC car. I would love to see an IC car do 156 and I hope I do at the speed event.

By the way it looks like the West coast speed event might not go ahaed and we will be running in Dallas instead. See the thread on this forum

Cheers

(in reply to ziggy12345)