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To the beginner... - 5/7/2008 2:10:45 PM   
chris6414



Posts: 600
Joined: 12/23/2004
From: Warminster , PA, USA
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First off, if you are reading this, then welcome to the addicting hobby of RC electric helos. I keep reading about set-ups of the Belt CP and many newcomers are being told to set-up like they were going to fly 3D. I have had my Belt for a year and a half and have been flying Helos for 3 years. I don't fly 3D and just enjoy scale type/sport helo flying. I started as most, wanting to try something that just was amazing to watch and having flown planes for 15+ years, helos were just the next challenge. If it weren't for the affordability of the ESky brand I probably would still be just wishing I could afford one.

The first thing you need to do when purchasing one of these is to study up on electrics and LiPo technology. This is the dominent power source for these new helos and the safety factors that need to be learned cannot be over emphasized. Plus, if you don't know how to care for your batterries it will get expensive in a hurry, not to mention you could be chasing a gripe that could be related to a bad battery from over discharge. I'm an Avionics guy by trade so I know how difficult it can be chasing trons to find out what the issue is.

Finless and others have put on the net, countless lessons to set-up a helo correctly so it will fly. If your new, don't even think about 3d for now as you just want to get into the air and hover so, tape that idle up switch or disable it if you have a fancier radio. Many have learned about the "I wonder what this switch will do" mistake. Don't add yourself to that list. You can start by just setting up your helo for normal mode and fly like that for a few months or like me, for a year, until you start playing with the idle up mode of flight.

Setting up is easy so don't charge the battery, throw it in there and spool it up. First off, you probably don't have the knowledge of what this electric powered, inverted lawn mower, without a guard is about to do. Unplug the motor(all three wires) turn on the transmitter with the throttle all the way down and plug the helo battery in and "see" what the swashplate, blades and paddles are actually doing. Then put the throttle stick at the bottom and set up your swash and paddle blades so they are level (by eye is fine). Then make sure your servo arms/bellcranks are at 90 degrees. Don't stress if you cannot get it perfect as most servos are not perfectly matched. You can measure blade pitch by eye but a pitch gauge would really help here. You want 0(level looking at the tip) to -2 degrees at 0 throttle and 7-9 degrees at the top(full throttle and collective) I fly with 8.5 degrees at the top, but for a year I never went above 7.5 degrees and she flew just fine and didn't run too hot. You are looking for about 4-6 degrees at mid stick so it will hover in that area. Once again, don't get wrapped around the axle if you have to tune the throttle up to 60 or 70% to get it to hover. You can fine tune it later.

The tail set-up is also not too difficult. With a "rate" gyro you will need about 5-7 degrees positive pitch to the right so the tail will blow the tail to the left in the hover to compensate for the main rotor torque. With the radio on and the rudder trim centered, just check the servo arm for 90 degrees and loosen the mounting screws and slide the servo to get the approximate pitch. Same deal, don't get wrapped around the axle if you need to move the trim tab on the radio to get the helo to stay straight. That is what it is there for. Now, if you have to move it all the way to one side then set her down and make an adjustment. If your new to this then I have to recommend staying with a rate gyro till you are more comfortable actually flying the helo. It teachs you to "fly the tail" which you have to learn and a Heading hold gyro doesn't really allow the helo to weathervane when learning FF and FFF.

Then if you have never hovered a helo, make or purchase some trainer gear for your size helo. For a 450 size, some dowels or carbon fober rod, with ping pong or practice golf balls on the tips. Just make an "X" pattern by putting them through your skids and leave 10-12 inches out at each corner of the helo and affix with tape or zip ties. If on a smooth serface you can actually get the helo light on the skids and "drive' it around to get the feel for how it reacts to swash movement. If you don't, you will most likely have an incident that will have you ordering replacement parts. Sure it isn't cool but it will teach your fingers how to react to what the helo will do and save you from many crazy landings. Kepp in mind that under 18-24 inches the helo is in really "Dirty" air so it will be all over the place. That is to say, your flying in your own down wash which is very turbulent air. Above the knees is much better for hovering but them the knees rattle!

Things to remember:
Helos don't just lift straight up and stay in a hover without constant input

Never slam the throttle to zero when your in trouble, unless, you are absolutely sure you are crashing.it is asking for a boom strike and busted parts

Rotor blades are dangerous when spinning at high speeds (Keep children, pets and bystanders away and behind you!)

ALWAYS, ALWAYS turn on your transmitter at zero throttle before powering up the helo, and turn it off, AFTER you unplug the helo battery!

All linkages need to be checked for smooth operation. Disconnect from servos to check this with your calibrated finger tips

Tail drive belt and gear mesh need to be smooth and not too tight or this will heat up in a hurry.

Lipos are like your wife, treat them well, and you know.... Treat them badly and watch out. Don't run them dead or you will kill them.

Gyros drift unless you spend over $100 on a great gyro

You will need to practice allot before forward flight, unless you like spending money and fixing your helo.

BE PATIENT! Which is probably the hardest thing with a new toy. Make no mistake though , these are not TOYS! They can break bones and do serious damage if mishandled.

I love to help out and I too learn new things every day. Most of what I learned, I learned by trial and error and reading threads about the helos. So any other experts out there feel free to add to this thread. Keep the rotors Level.


Chris

< Message edited by chris6414 -- 5/8/2008 3:42:48 PM >
       Post #: 1

RE: To the beginner... - 5/7/2008 4:30:16 PM   
DumbDawg



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Joined: 3/11/2008
From: Osoyoos, BC, CANADA
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Like Chris says... read read read....

Also there is a lot of merit in Radds school of flight... A great starting point. When you get outside to fly choose an empty place, no spectators or animals. I learned gobs actually chasing my helo around. Trying to maintain a hover for a noob is near impossible. But allowed to drift and walking after it you begin to learn quickly, I did anyway, how to stop the helo and bring it back to you. Sometimes jumping out of the way. You learn SMALL stick movements are better that large over corrections.

Thats my two cents

happy fly'n

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/7/2008 4:39:29 PM   
pauloricot


 

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From: Goose Bay, NL, CANADA
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chris6414
very good reading but could you elaborate on the lipo's

Thanks

Paul

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/7/2008 5:59:43 PM   
The Codfather


 

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From: Quadra Island, BC, CANADA
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Excellent posts !!!!

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Altitude is insurance!

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/7/2008 11:13:27 PM   
brac1960


 

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From: Fernie, BC, CANADA
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Well said Chris, I couldn't agree more with every thing you said. When I got my heli, from day one I had it set up like yours in normal mode also, -2 degrees @ 0 stick lots of pitch @ 1/2 stick and slower head speed, I feel like this slows thing down a bit for the learning stages. I now have a Dx6i, I programmed my idle up mode the exact same as normal mode, this way if I hit the dreaded idle up switch, no problem. I am now at the point where I am doing some FF flight and flips and now have programmed the idle up mode in, and set my pitch @ 0 degrees @ 1/2 stick.

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/8/2008 9:38:15 AM   
denis1


 

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From: Zagreb, CROATIA (HRVATSKA)
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Excellent thread guys... Although I'm into these RC helis for almost a year now, still I found it useful to read this stuff over and over.

Please let me add just the few words from my experience so far...
I've got HBFP, at first stages it was awfully hard for me to hover even tail-in... Seemed impossible to stay in the air even for more than 10s...
Then I've gone thru several of these crashes, hard landings (landing gear helped a lot!), broken parts, waiting for parts to be shipped and so on...
Then I took the SIM to get some safe practice (really a good thing in those cold and windy winter nights), whenever I got some time I use to fly the SIM - it's useful to get the feeling for the orientation.
Without mastering how to use the sticks in any orientation, in my opinion no success can be achieved...
These days I feel comfortable to fly the SIM heli in any orientation, both hovering and flying forward. I rarely crash these days when playing with the SIM.
With my real HBFP, different story, I know I could probably do the similar maneuvers already, but I still don't feel as relaxed with my real HBFP, so I don't push it too hard...
Patience is really the key.
I can move it slightly forward now, tail-in, side-in, slowly and very carefully doing circles around myself, little bit of nose-in as well.
After some 10 minutes of flying, sometimes I start to feel like I'm slightly loosing concentration on the heli, so I better land and contunue next time...

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/8/2008 12:00:11 PM   
chris6414



Posts: 600
Joined: 12/23/2004
From: Warminster , PA, USA
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I am by no means an expert on Lipos but have read much and picking up a LiPo "Gas gauge" is a good idea. I made one from an old ESky radio. I took the LED board out that measured the transmitter pack voltage and installed a resistor in series and hooked it into my balance tap to measure where I was at under load. The LEDs could be seen in the day up close. I'm not trusting of BESC's LVCs. Lipos just cost too much.

http://www.rchelisite.com/lipo_battery_charging_and_safety_guide.php

http://www.helidirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=384&products_id=4661

Chris

I too just picked up a Futaba 7C and use idle up for normal type flying. I have the zero throttle set to 47% to keep the headspeed up when I am coming in for approach. I have to set Idle 2 to more negative though. I did my first split S yesterday. Wow did that thing come down quick! I forgot to pull off the collective once I rolled over. I was just awe struck and a little nervous so I mental locked. I told myself before I tried it to pull the collective to just below half, but the moment took over and I was just trying to catch the thing as it screamed at 80 degrees toward the ground. I rolled out at about 50 ft and it screamed by. What a rush!

< Message edited by chris6414 -- 5/8/2008 12:13:53 PM >

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/8/2008 12:29:40 PM   
jimmy 1987


 

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very good info!
helps noobs like me alot!

let me get this straight when u set the heli in 3d mode it remembers the setting just fro 3d flying, wen u set it in normal it remembers the setting for flyign normal mode? so it remembers 2 seperate settings?

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/8/2008 3:45:01 PM   
chris6414



Posts: 600
Joined: 12/23/2004
From: Warminster , PA, USA
Status: offline
I flowed my own advice and bought some battery equipment this AM.

http://www.****/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6454

http://www.****/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4175

$10 shipped, can't beat that for insurance.



< Message edited by chris6414 -- 5/8/2008 4:11:28 PM >

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/8/2008 4:15:57 PM   
chris6414



Posts: 600
Joined: 12/23/2004
From: Warminster , PA, USA
Status: offline
Yes it does just that. Higher end radios allow for adjustment of the pitch and throttle curves for idle up mode(s). The stock ESKy radio allows for fine tuning pitch and pitch range but not throttle so when Idle up is flipped, the motor speeds up to I think 80% at mid stick and 100% at the top and bottom with anywhere from -7 to +7 to -11 to +11 degrees pitch range. Higher end radios like Futaba, JR and Hitec allow for indiviual mixing of the pitch and throttle curves in all modes.

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/10/2008 6:11:29 AM   
kianhon


 

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From: Kalamazoo, MI, USA
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I couldn't get my BeltCP lift off!!! Whenever I tried, it kept strafe to the left no matter how much I trim it, I just dare not get it to lift off in this situation. Is it how it suppose to b? or something is going wrong? Will heli lift off straight up? or they just strafe around whenever it is lifting off?

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RE: To the beginner... - 5/10/2008 1:13:41 PM   
chris6414



Posts: 600
Joined: 12/23/2004
From: Warminster , PA, USA
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I posted a similar reply in the Belt CP forum on leveling the swash:

A level swash will have a tendency to move left based on the tail thrust (pushing the helo that direction) and the torque of the mains. If the mains spun the other direction, it would slide or move to the right. You can trim it slightly right or teach yourself that upon lift off, you will need to hold slight right cyclic(recommended). It will eventually become second nature and once airborne the tilting should cease. All helos do this on lift off. (slide/bank left) If this effect concerns you, then you need to get some trainer gear until youhave mastered the "straight" take-off and gentle landing.

Now if your CG is off(tilting forward or backward with a level swash and centered trims), then that is another issue that needs to be resolved first, but a level swash is needed to ensure CCPM moves straight up and not canted to one side on collective inputs like flaring in an approach. Also, retreating blade stall at FFF speeds will cause the helo to bank right due the forward moving blade is travelling faster then the retreating blade causing more lift on one side. Some higher end radios allow mixing to counter this effect and is usaully switch activated. They will turn it on in FFF and turn it off when coming in for a hover or landing.

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       Post #: 12

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