Transmitter frequency change: (Full Version)

All Forums >> [RC Airplanes] >> Sport Flying



Message


Electriceddie -> Transmitter frequency change: (5/8/2008 12:05:04 AM)

Hi all,

I have a Futaba TX6A transmitter on Ch.57 and I would like to change it to Ch.17 or Ch.32. Could I just put in a Ch.17 or Ch.32 crystal into the Trans match my new receiver? Could it be used safely without sending it back to Futaba for re-tuning, or is this just a super safety fact that Futaba is pushing to make a couple of extra bucks?

Thanks




Jim Schwagle -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/8/2008 12:33:41 AM)

It's FCC regs. The transmitter is type certified and that requires someone trained to do it. Yes, many guys do it, but Futaba is just following the law.




Electriceddie -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/8/2008 1:44:13 AM)

Hi Jim,


Thanks for the quick reply. However I guess one of the other issues I was thinking of is like you know how you can change the Receiver crystal to any other crystal as long as it is within the same band ex. low band 15 can change to 23 or 20 to 26 or High band can change from 36 to 45 or 56 to 47. As long as you keep within the same band be it high or lo, but not within the high to the low or vice versa. Can you change the transmitter form Ch.57 to 17 or Ch.32 or does it not matter because it needs to be re-tuned by Futaba. Or can you get away with out re-tuning it?

Ed




danny03 -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/8/2008 2:19:07 PM)

You do not need to send it back to Futaba, it can be sent to any licensed shop for retuning. Some people say that if you stay within 3 channels of your original channel then you will be fine. Myself, I had a friend change his crystal and I took our club scanner and confirmed that Now he was not only transmitting on his new channel but also on 3 other channels. That incident made me a believer that there is some things that we should not do for ourselves.




piper_chuck -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/8/2008 4:11:34 PM)

And I bought a transmitter that someone else had done a crystal swap on. When Radio South tested it they said it was transmitting at less than 1/2 power due to the crystal swap. A quick retune by them brought it back to full power.




RCKen -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/8/2008 6:06:51 PM)

It's against FCC regulations to change the crystal in a transmitter unless it's done by a licensed shop that can retune the output of the radio.

If you are interested in the full text of the regulations concerning this matter they can be found at:

FCC Title 47, Part 95 - Personal Radio Services

Copied from Futaba's website
quote:

How do I change the frequency of my transmitter?
For a unit with crystals: We CANNOT recommend changing crystals to a different frequency. Changing the crystal on your transmitter is illegal unless you have the proper license. The FCC has established guidelines for the modeler's safety and for the safety of spectators. For safety and FCC reasons we must request that both TX and RX be sent to the service center to ensure proper crystal change and retuning to the new frequency. Crystal based radios cannot be converted to another band without parts replacement, and may not be able to be converted at all. Certain radios can be converted, for example, from 72 to 75MHz. Please contact the service center for any other conversions.
The applicable Federal Regulation is as follows:
TITLE 47—TELECOMMUNICATION COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 95—PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES

Subpart E—Technical Regulations
Sec. 95.645 Control accessibility.
(a) No control, switch or other type of adjustment which, when
manipulated, can result in a violation of the rules shall be accessible
from the transmitter operating panel or from exterior of the transmitter
enclosure.
(b) An R/C transmitter which incorporates plug-in frequency
determining modules which are changed by the user must be certificated
with the modules. Each module must contain all of the frequency
determining circuitry including the oscillator. Plug-in crystals are not
considered modules and must not be accessible to the user.



Copied from FCC regulations concerning this issue

quote:

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.221]
[Page 539]
TITLE 47TELECOMMUNICATION CHAPTER IFEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICESTable of Contents
Subpart C_Radio Control (R/C) Radio Service
Sec. 95.221 (R/C Rule 21) How do I have my R/C transmitter serviced?
(a) You may adjust an antenna to your R/C transmitter and you may make radio checks. (A radio check means a one-way transmission for a short time in order to test the transmitter.)
(b) You are responsible for the proper operation of the station at all times and are expected to provide for observations, servicing and maintenance as often as may be necessary to ensure proper operation. Each internal repair and each internal adjustment to an FCC certificated R/C transmitter (see R/C Rule 9) must be made in accord with the Technical Regulations (see subpart E). The internal repairs or internal adjustments should be performed by or under the immediate supervision and responsibility of a person certified as technically qualified to perform transmitter maintenance and repair duties in the private land mobile services and fixed services by an organization or committee representative of users in those services.
(c) Except as provided in paragraph
(d) of this section, each internal repair and each internal adjustment of an R/C transmitter in which signals are transmitted must be made using a nonradiating (``dummy'') antenna. (d) Brief test signals (signals not longer than one minute during any five minute period) using a radiating antenna may be transmitted in order to:
(1) Adjust a transmitter to an antenna;
(2) Detect or measure radiation of energy other than the intended signal; or
(3) Tune a receiver to your R/C transmitter.

(Secs. 4(i) and 303(r), Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 U.S.C. 154(i) and 303(r), and sec. 553 of the Administrative Procedures Act, 5 U.S.C. 553) [48 FR 24890, June 3, 1983, as amended at 49 FR 20673, May 16, 1984; 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998]



quote:

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.222]
[Page 539-540]
TITLE 47TELECOMMUNICATION
CHAPTER IFEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS
COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICESTable of Contents
Subpart C_Radio Control (R/C) Radio Service
Sec. 95.222 (R/C Rule 22) May I make any changes to my R/C station transmitter?

(a) You must not make or have anyone else make an internal modification to your R/C transmitter.
(b) Internal modification does not include:
(1) Repair or servicing of an R/C station transmitter (see R/C Rule 21, Sec. 95.221); or
(2) Changing plug-in modules which were certificated as part of your R/C transmitter.
(c) You must not operate an R/C transmitter which has been modified by anyone in any way, including modification to operate on unauthorized frequencies or with illegal power. (See R/C Rules 9 and 10, Sec. Sec. 95.209 and 95.210.)
[48 FR 24894, June 3, 1983, as amended at 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998]



quote:

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.645]
[Page 561]
TITLE 47TELECOMMUNICATION
CHAPTER IFEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS
COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICESTable of Contents
Subpart E_Technical Regulations
Sec. 95.645 Control accessibility.
(a) No control, switch or other type of adjustment which, when manipulated, can result in a violation of the rules shall be accessible
from the transmitter operating panel or from exterior of the transmitter enclosure.
(b) An R/C transmitter which incorporates plug-in frequency determining modules which are changed by the user must be certificated
with the modules. Each module must contain all of the frequency determining circuitry including the oscillator. Plug-in crystals are not
considered modules and must not be accessible to the user.
[53 FR 36789, Sept. 22, 1988. Redesignated at 61 FR 28769, June 6, 1996, and further redesignated at 61 FR 46567, Sept. 4, 1996; 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998]


KEn




BarracudaHockey -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/8/2008 10:20:13 PM)

Just get it tuned. Its cheap insurance against problems, and a good way to see if there's anything wrong with your transmitter.

The high band / low band thing only applies to Futaba recievers, and only those marked as such, it has nothing to do with transmitters.




Electriceddie -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/9/2008 12:13:09 AM)

Hi Baracuda

Any locations on Long Island to bring it to? If not where would you recomend?

Thanks

Ed




carrellh -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/9/2008 3:16:22 AM)

I'm not sure how to find a qualified shop in your area.

Radio South has a good reputation on RCU and has offices in Georgia and Florida.
http://www.radiosouthrc.com/
Cost will be approximately 50 dollars, including crystals, for transmitter and receiver. They estimate return shipping at 12 dollars. I'd assume doing only a transmiter would be less.

There is the Futaba service center at Hobby Services in Illinois
http://www.hobbyservices.com/futaba-rates.html
They charge 20 dollars, including crystal, to change a transmitter or receiver. Return shipping is 8.99 per shipment regardless of how much stuff is in the box.




BarracudaHockey -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/9/2008 11:33:45 AM)

Radio South is who I use, of course "return shipping" for me means buying Tony a Coke at our club meeting :)




Jollidude -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/10/2008 4:46:40 PM)

Futaba sells a synthesized module that you can dial in any frequency (ch 11 - 60) you want. By the time you buy a new crystal and pay the labour to have the transmitter retuned you are probably pretty close to the price of a new module. With many flyers changing to 2.4 gHz, you may be able to pick up a used one for even cheaper.

Cheers!

Jollidude




JPMacG -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/10/2008 6:01:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Electriceddie

Hi Baracuda

Any locations on Long Island to bring it to? If not where would you recomend?

Thanks

Ed

Radio South and Futaba are good choices. It is not clear to me how one would find another qualified repair shop, or even what requirements are needed to make a repair shop "qualified." The FCC is not clear on this. My understanding is that the FCC no longer licenses repair facilities or technicians, but now relies on the industry to police itself. I don't know what organization within the RC community is responsible. It is not the AMA. I suspect there is none.

Certainly a shop would need to have technicians who are trained on RC radio systems and would need to have regularly calibrated instrumentation (spectrum analyzers, frequency counters, and so on). I guess a shop should also be insured or bonded.

I would stick with the two mentioned above unless I had good reason to trust another.




Electriceddie -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/11/2008 11:52:04 PM)

Baracuda,

What do you think I should do since I already have the Crystals which I purchase from Tower? Do you think they would service it at a lower rate or not unless I purchase the crysyals from them. I hope this does not make the crystals I bought useless, if I have to by them from them. I will get in touch with them, however I thought I would shoot back a reply to you about my actual status with crystalsand get your repsonse as well.

Thanks a Bunch...........

and All the other guys too......

Ed




mred33 -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/18/2008 5:18:11 PM)

(b) An R/C transmitter which incorporates plug-in frequency
determining modules which are changed by the user must be certificated
with the modules. Each module must contain all of the frequency
determining circuitry including the oscillator. Plug-in crystals are not
considered modules and must not be accessible to the user.

OK, I have a stupid question. I am not trying to start something here, so don't take this the wrong way. I have a Futaba 4 channel transmitter with a crystal mounted on the face of the transmitter with finger slots to help you grab it. It is clearly made to replace the crystal with another, but it is just the crystal, not a module. Now the FCC says this is not legal to have a crystal accessible by the user, yet there it is. How is this possible and why can't you change the crystal that is made to be changed by the user. I have heard for years that you must send the transmitter back to someone to get it re-tuned to the new frequency and have done that in the past, but the radios back then were not made the way they are now. You had no choice. Now it seems you have a choice, but the FCC says no. How is this transmitter even legal in the states and if it is, why can't you change the crystal?
Ed




RCKen -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (5/18/2008 7:38:58 PM)

It's simple, you can't change the crystal because it's illegal. A lot of the these radios are sold worldwide and in places that might not have the same laws that we do here in the US. The manufacturers were able to satisfy the law by either placing a cap or tape over the crystal in order for it to be "not user accessible". Yes, I know that it's a minor conflict with the law, but that is how the manufacturers were able to work within the US laws. But in the end it still boils down to the fact that the radio does need to be sent in to change the crystal.

An example of why the user would WANT to send the radio in for service. Another member of RCU recently purchased a used radio that had the crystal changed by the previous user without sending it in. After buying the radio he sent the radio in for a regular service and to have it checked because of the crystal change. They reported back to him that the transmitting power had been cut in half because the radio hadn't been properly re-tuned when the crystal was changed. The previous owner was lucky that he didn't lose a plane because of that. In my opinion, regardless of what the law says it's just not worth risking losing a plane. The money it costs for a repair center to properly change the crystal is cheap insurance against the loss of a plane

Ken




mred33 -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (6/1/2008 5:36:29 PM)

OK, I'll go along with that, but then why are people selling a set of crystals to change the transmitter and receiver crystal on E-Bay and everywhere else? When we had the old radios, we had to send then in, but now everyone is selling the radio and crystal all over the place and the FCC doesn't seem to care. Now I know it is best to send the transmitter in to get a freq change and have the set tuned to the new freq, but a lot of people don't. We have so many new people that know nothing about the plane, let alone the radio and they are buying the sets to change out at the field. I have seen them do it and when I ask, they tell me that they should not have made it so easy to change if it was not supposed to be done and then went right on and changed it. If it is not legal, why are they allowed to sell them here???? I don't mean that they should all be thrown in jail, but they should be told by the FCC that selling them is not legal and that changing them is not legal and a sticker should be put on the transmitter with that warning. Mine never had a sticker of any kind on it and was sold with nothing over the crystal to even warn you. While I bought mine used, I have seen them in the store with nothing over the crystal and JR does the same thing. I don't see how it could be legal for one transmitter and not legal for another. Someone needs to make up their mind and either do something or git rid of the law. I have not looked at all the different sets, but I do know that JR and Futaba both sell sets like this. Even if the new guy crashes because he changed his crystal and had low output, he probably doesn't know why he crashed. Most of the new guys don't even know what a range check is, let along how to do one and why it needs to be done. That's one of the bad things about our new systems and the new people we are trying so hard to get in the hobby. We want them in, but after they buy something they are on their own. In most cases, it's a toy store selling the thing and they know nothing about the items they are selling, let alone the laws governing their use. Just my .02 worth.
Ed




BarracudaHockey -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (6/1/2008 11:16:04 PM)

How fast will your car go?

What is the speed limit on your street and what happens if you exceed it?

Just because someone sells crystals, doesn't make it legal to change them.

Technically it says they shouldn't be user accessable. Since manufacturers sell radios all over the world, in places where its fine to change crystals, they get around the accessability issue by a drop of hot glue, which anyone that wants to pop that cover off breaks w/o thinking about it.




carrellh -> RE: Transmitter frequency change: (6/1/2008 11:32:37 PM)

mred33,
there are people with the equipment and expertise to check and retune their own transmitters. In theory only those people should be buying transmitter crystals.

No one who sells this stuff is going to ask the buyer if he or she is qualified to make the change. Many sellers probably do not even know the rules.

I do think the big places like Tower should note this on the product info page for crystal sets.




Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

© 2001 - 2007 24-7 RC, LLC, all rights reserved.
0.34375