RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 [4] 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/20/2008 1:45:57 PM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

See and avoid...Our models would not be flying very high on an IFR day and certainly not be in controlled airspace

For your information model sailplanes currently fly in controlled airspace all the time without incedent. It is not against the FARS. Also full scale aircraft can fly VFR without radion contract in most controlled airspace, though there are a few rules besides see and avoid.

_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

(in reply to busted2props)

Post #: 76

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/20/2008 4:49:59 PM

Bob Mitchell

Posts: 547
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

See and avoid...Our models would not be flying very high on an IFR day and certainly not be in controlled airspace

For your information model sailplanes currently fly in controlled airspace all the time without incedent. It is not against the FARS. Also full scale aircraft can fly VFR without radion contract in most controlled airspace, though there are a few rules besides see and avoid.

It may be that some are thinking of "controlled airspace" as being the same as a Terminal Control Area, for instance.

_____________________________

Bob Mitchell AMA 903015
H9 Alpha 60/Evolution 61NT, Sig 4* 60/OS 75AX, Futaba 7C 2.4GHz

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)

Post #: 77

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/20/2008 6:12:55 PM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

Even flying in a TCA doesn't require an IFR flight plan. I think he must have been thinking of the flight level airspace at FL 18 and above.

_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

(in reply to Bob Mitchell)

Post #: 78

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/21/2008 12:39:08 AM

KidEpoxy

Posts: 3407
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline

Maybe the reference was Controlled Airspace as opposed to OuttaControl Airspace?

What happened to the simple ones like
GoForIt space, EverywhereElse space, and DontIncusion space ?

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)

Post #: 79

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/21/2008 12:55:11 AM

KingCrash

Posts: 104
Joined: 11/16/2003
From: Harpers Ferry, WV, USA
Status: offline

They were taken away by "lawyerspace" and "suespace"

_____________________________

if it isn't fun, you're missing the point

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 80

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/21/2008 5:00:52 PM

Bob Mitchell

Posts: 547
Joined: 3/23/2008
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Even flying in a TCA doesn't require an IFR flight plan.

I know, but it's "controlled" from the stand point that you can't be there without FAA controler knowledge, permission and radio contact.

_____________________________

Bob Mitchell AMA 903015
H9 Alpha 60/Evolution 61NT, Sig 4* 60/OS 75AX, Futaba 7C 2.4GHz

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)

Post #: 81

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/21/2008 11:55:03 PM

abel_pranger

Posts: 2319
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

For your information model sailplanes currently fly in controlled airspace all the time without incedent. It is not against the FARS. Also full scale aircraft can fly VFR without radion contract in most controlled airspace, though there are a few rules besides see and avoid.

Sport-

For your information, what conforms to FAA's definition of 'model airplane' is not subject to any provision of the FARs. Model airplanes that exceed the FAA definition of model airplane (for example, fly above 400') are subject to FARs, including requirements for aircraft and pilot certification.
The fact that model sailplanes currently fly in controlled airspace without incident does not mean they are in compliance with the laws of the land - just that they (most, not all, as FAA controllers in the Los Angeles basin can tell you) have not caused enough of a problem for FAA to invoke the law against violators. The club that occupies a model flying area within the Prado Dam recreational preserve certainly felt the firm hand of regulation by FAA when a GA pilot landing at Chino reported model turbojet traffic coming at him from all angles while he was in the pattern. It has been reported in other threads in this forum that the CD for the model jet event failed to obtain a waiver for altitude clearance.........but told participants otherwise.......

Abel

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)

Post #: 82

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/22/2008 7:21:02 PM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

Model airplanes that exceed the FAA definition of model airplane (for example, fly above 400') are subject to FARs, including requirements for aircraft and pilot certification.

The FAA's definition of aircraft include that they are controlable with an onboard pilot. The FAA has admitted to this with their AC, and they do not require compliance with flight testing of model or pilot. There is nothing in the FAR's preventing model aircraft inside of controlled airspace other than an advisory circular which does not have the teeth of a FAR.

quote:

The club that occupies a model flying area within the Prado Dam recreational preserve certainly felt the firm hand of regulation by FAA when a GA pilot landing at Chino reported model turbojet traffic coming at him from all angles while he was in the pattern.

Local FSDO's can make local standard's to follow but I thought only the LA FSDO has bothered to do so. But also FSDO also have been proven wrong in the courts before. I doubt anyone will bring this to court unless harmed, which is why the FSDO does as it will's. BTW show me how they were harmed by the FSDO's action.

_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

(in reply to abel_pranger)

Post #: 83

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/22/2008 8:02:13 PM

STLPilot

Posts: 9204
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

The FAA's definition of aircraft include that they are controlable with an onboard pilot.

Where did read that? FAR. Part 1 Sec 1. (The first page of the FAR, hard to miss)

Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air.

quote:

There is nothing in the FAR's preventing model aircraft inside of controlled airspace other than an advisory circular which does not have the teeth of a FAR.

You might want to brush up on your UAS policies, which Abel was speaking, which was adopted into the FAA's FAR Feb 2007. Docket No. FAA–2006–25714; Notice No.07–01.

Model airplanes most certainly are prevented from flying inside controlled airspace. Now as long as you stay below 400' and clear of other aircraft, your model is still a model, however the FAA calls you a hobbyist. But your "model" keeps its designation as an "aircraft".

< Message edited by STLPilot -- 5/22/2008 8:30:46 PM >

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)

Post #: 84

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/23/2008 12:41:57 AM

littlecrankshaf

Posts: 2135
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

Model airplanes most certainly are prevented from flying inside controlled airspace. Now as long as you stay below 400' and clear of other aircraft, your model is still a model, however the FAA calls you a hobbyist. But your "model" keeps its designation as an "aircraft".

stl

"Aircraft"??? Hmmm...maybe we do need a definition for model airplanes...this shows one good reason that even I can not discount. stl you win. dANG

< Message edited by littlecrankshaf -- 5/23/2008 12:43:36 AM >

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 85

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/23/2008 1:44:15 AM

littlecrankshaf

Posts: 2135
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline

BTW those N-numbers would look pretty cool on my slow stik...yea!!~!!

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)

Post #: 86

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/23/2008 1:53:22 AM

STLPilot

Posts: 9204
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

"Aircraft"??? Hmmm...maybe we do need a definition for model airplanes...this shows one good reason that even I can not discount. stl you win. dANG

Simply stated, an unmanned aircraft is a device that is used, or is
intended to be used, for flight in the air with no onboard pilot. These
devices may be as simple as a remotely controlled model aircraft used
for recreational purposes or as complex as surveillance aircraft flying
over hostile areas in warfare. They may be controlled either manually
or through an autopilot using a data link to connect the pilot to their
aircraft. They may perform a variety of public services: Surveillance,
collection of air samples to determine levels of pollution, or rescue
and recovery missions in crisis situations. They range in size from
wingspans of six inches to 246 feet; and can weigh from approximately
four ounces to over 25,600 pounds.

Like I said, brush up on your UAS policies, which are federal REGULATIONS, not advisories.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)

Post #: 87

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/23/2008 2:12:53 AM

littlecrankshaf

Posts: 2135
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

Simply stated, an unmanned aircraft is a device that is used, or is
intended to be used, for flight in the air with no onboard pilot.

Are we now talking about unmanned aircraft? thought we were talking about models and the designation of them. You are doing it again.

I already said you win...that means I give...uncle...tap the mat...get off me you brute.LOL

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 88

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/23/2008 11:22:32 AM

STLPilot

Posts: 9204
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

Unmanned aircraft, model aircraft, surveillance aircraft. Yes, LCS we are talking about types of aircraft. We already know the FAA definition of aircraft, it's slightly different than was stated above. The UAS/FAR has designated our little toys as unmanned aircraft. But if you want to look up definition of model airplane outside the FAR go for it my comments were in line with the discussion.

All I can do is cite the source. There is a big difference about how the AMA "feels" about paintballing and what's written in black in white in the FAR. The AMA safety code does not say you can or cannot paintball a model airplane in flight, it's open for clarity of definition. That clarity comes in the form of the AMA paying you in the event of an accident. Whereas the FAR says you cannot fly your model aircraft in controlled airspace, which is part of the NAS, without proper authority, in regards to SP's comment.

WYSIWYG.

< Message edited by STLPilot -- 5/23/2008 11:50:58 AM >

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)

Post #: 89

RE: Interesting tidbit from the President's Blog - 5/23/2008 3:00:39 PM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

Where did read that? FAR. Part 1 Sec 1. (The first page of the FAR, hard to miss)

Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air.

That is true but I was acctually refering to the applicability to part 91. If what you say is true then model aircraft can fly through controlled airspace as all others do.

quote:

You might want to brush up on your UAS policies, which Abel was speaking, which was adopted into the FAA's FAR Feb 2007. Docket No. FAA–2006–25714; Notice No.07–01.

This simply says model aircraft must follow the AC discussed before, it doesn't make the voluntary advisory mandatory.

quote:

All I can do is cite the source.

I agree, that's obvious.

_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 90