Flame Out Titan SE

Flame Out Titan SE
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

BVM Bandit
Seller: aparchment
Details: $4,200.00 | 9/28/2008 | Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Jets >> Flame Out Titan SE

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 4:13:13 AM

MaJ. Woody

Posts: 1258
Joined: 4/4/2003
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline

Hi Guys.
On my sixth Panther flight today I had a flame out. The Titan SE is bran new and has less than one hour on it. The GSU says power fail.....indicating that my RX batt was low. Well I check them before every flight and each pack was a 6.57V under load. After getting that message on the GSU I checked the batteries again and they were at 6.54V each. I fired up the titan and she ran great. No bubbles anywhere. I was stumped. Well I had a similar problem on one of my P-70's and it turned out to be a faulty RPM Sensor. When the ECU see's zero RPM it thinks it has lost power and shuts things down. I think that is how Bob Wilcox explained it to me. Anyway based on that experience I plugged the GSU back in and pressed the ignition switch several times. I was getting good rpm readouts so I am still stumped. I am worried to fly this plane again for fear of another flame out this time maybe in a bad spot that would cause me to ditch and trash my airplane. When I do fly it again I will keep it very high and limit myself to a racetrack pattern that can provide more options in the event of another flame out .
Any ideas??

_____________________________

Dom
Team FeiBao

Post #: 1

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 4:28:43 AM

MaJ. Woody

Posts: 1258
Joined: 4/4/2003
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline

By the way my ECU battery was at 7.8V.

I was just reading about static electricity in the Jetcat Support forum. Funny thing was that the loose grass around the airport was stuck to my Jersey Modeler can. I could not wipe it off. I had to blow the grass off the fuel can. Do you thing I had a static electricity issue? My fuel can was almost empty if that mean anything.

Here is the post from the other forum I was reading:

Jetcat experts,

Can you tell me specifically what can cause a PowerFail Error message? Is it power loss from the receiver battery only? Or power loss from the ECU pack only? Or perhaps either can cause this message...

My Titan shut down during midflight. After "landing" the model, we attached the GSU to the ECU, and we could not read the output - the GSU character field was filled with very dim text boxes. After relocating the model, and doing a quick check on the ECU pack, we were able to read the PowerFail message.

Post-event, the receiver pack read 5.2v with a mild load, and ECU I believe was reading 7.5v with a very short duration 1.0A discharge. Tomorrow, I will discharge both packs (NiCd), but I am confident they will be of good capacity.

Thanks for any suggestions...

Update - I just got off the phone with Bob Wilcox, and he strongly suspects I've been bitten by the static electricity buildup issue, from the fuel lines. I'll eventually post later after I get some addtnl flights, to see if this can be confirmed.

_____________________________

-Ron S.

_____________________________

Dom
Team FeiBao

(in reply to MaJ. Woody)

Post #: 2

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 4:39:35 AM

Wayne22

Posts: 4336
Joined: 4/10/2002
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline

It may not be a faulty rpm sensor, but the sensor may be picking up something other the rpm signals. I have a very similar situation (different engine, differnt jet) and after exhaustive trouble shooting I found out that it was a noisy flap servo of all things!! It was causing some sort of interference which fooled the sensor into reading false and low RPM's so the ECU shut the turbine down. Easy to check- turn everything on, plug in the gdt and exercise every servo. Put a bit of load on the flight surfaces....if you see any RPM reading when the engine is stopped, you're getting some interference and will have to take steps to eliminate the cause.......

Have you flown the L-39 yet?

_____________________________

All I ask is for a chance to prove that money can't make me happy......

(in reply to MaJ. Woody)

Post #: 3

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 4:59:08 AM

MaJ. Woody

Posts: 1258
Joined: 4/4/2003
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline

Thanks Wayne.
Come to think of it I have a noisy flap servo myself. I also have an ocassional noisy steering servo. I will put the GSU in place and move the servos as you suggest. I have one flight on the L-39 and it flew great.

_____________________________

Dom
Team FeiBao

(in reply to Wayne22)

Post #: 4

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 5:28:56 AM

quist

Posts: 1606
Joined: 1/8/2002
From: Glendale, AZ, USA
Status: offline

I have 10 flights on my Titan SE and have had 2 of the same flame outs. I haven't had a chance to send the motor in yet.

At first I thought maybe it was a loose wire. It died on a very high speed high G pull. The second time was on a slow 1/4 throttle flyby 10' agl over the runway. that is a very bad place for a flame out.

(in reply to MaJ. Woody)

Post #: 5

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 5:45:44 AM

acw

Posts: 95
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Saratoga, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayne22

It may not be a faulty rpm sensor, but the sensor may be picking up something other the rpm signals. I have a very similar situation (different engine, differnt jet) and after exhaustive trouble shooting I found out that it was a noisy flap servo of all things!! It was causing some sort of interference which fooled the sensor into reading false and low RPM's so the ECU shut the turbine down. Easy to check- turn everything on, plug in the gdt and exercise every servo. Put a bit of load on the flight surfaces....if you see any RPM reading when the engine is stopped, you're getting some interference and will have to take steps to eliminate the cause.......

Have you flown the L-39 yet?

This is very interesting and easy to check. Thanks for sharing!

(in reply to Wayne22)

Post #: 6

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 3:25:23 PM

KC36330

Posts: 2528
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline

IF you have a power surge on either of the electrical systems (the ECU or the RX batteries) you can get a power fail and flame out. I've had it happen because of a bad servo that caused an excessive amperage draw at a particular point in its travel pulling down the RX battery for a micro second and once when i had a future jet jock helping fuel everything up and he got sand in my smoke system (i didn't have a filter on it back then), a grain of sand got stuck in the smoke pump gears and locked it up, the power spike of that killed the turbine, the engine fired right back up and if the smoke pump hadn't been locked up I'd of never found the cause of that one.

so to sum it up, your batteries may well check in acceptable voltage range but a short power spike still could of caused the problem.

(in reply to acw)

Post #: 7

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 3:41:09 PM

quist

Posts: 1606
Joined: 1/8/2002
From: Glendale, AZ, USA
Status: offline

I know battery condition was not a factor in mine. I wasn't in a position that I was pulling any amps, extended slow straight and level flight. I am also running dual a123 batteries, my only restriction is the two powerplugs going into the receiver. It also happened on the first flight of the day both times.

(in reply to KC36330)

Post #: 8

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 3:53:09 PM

MaJ. Woody

Posts: 1258
Joined: 4/4/2003
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline

Lots of good info coming my way. Thank you. I tried hooking up the GSU and moving the servos and even put some load on the servos as suggested but no RPM was displayed. Pushing the ignition button and watching the RPM readout produces some weird readings. For example if you push the button and run it up to say 3500 rpm and release it it will start to wind down. The numbers count down rather clunky meaning not very linear. Anyway, when the display gets to zero the turbine is still spinning a bit. Then after the turbine stops spinning the gsu goes from zero to like 700 rpm and then winds down to zero. I was concerned by this but I tested my Titan that is in my F-18 and it acted the exact same way. Next I tested both of my P-70's in my L-39 and A-4 and they did the same thing so it must be just the nature of the beast.

_____________________________

Dom
Team FeiBao

(in reply to quist)

Post #: 9

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 3:55:59 PM

Gary Jefferson

Posts: 649
Joined: 1/11/2002
From: Monroe, OH, USA
Status: offline

Dom, I don't know what type of batteries you are using or if it would have any affect but you might want to check and see if the battery setting in the ECU matches the same type of battery and cell setting for the batteries you are using; i.e. Li-Po or NiCad and 6 cell, 8 cell, etc.

Also, you can watch the GSU on startup to see the voltage. If there is a substantial drop or problem with the batteries you may see it on startup because of the high battery loads on startup.

< Message edited by Gary Jefferson -- 5/11/2008 4:41:40 PM >

_____________________________

Gary Jefferson
Tamjets Rep, Jetcat Rep

(in reply to KC36330)

Post #: 10

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 4:07:27 PM

MaJ. Woody

Posts: 1258
Joined: 4/4/2003
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline

Hi Gary.
Thanks for the response.
I just checked the battery setting and it is set for Nicd 7.2V. I am using the supplied 7.2V Nimh 3800 Mah pack so this is correct (the only other setting is for Lipo's). Interesting, I checked the statistic menu and there is a display for low battery cut outs and the value displayed is zero. Should this not say 1 since I was given a power fail error? Or is this like failsafe counts where it resets itself after you cycle the power?

_____________________________

Dom
Team FeiBao

(in reply to Gary Jefferson)

Post #: 11

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 5:06:33 PM

Gary Jefferson

Posts: 649
Joined: 1/11/2002
From: Monroe, OH, USA
Status: offline

Dominick, it probably resets itself, not really sure.

In the manual it says that power fail can be caused by an ECU or receiver battery that was disconnected or intermittent or if the receiver pack goes lower than 3 volts. Maybe you can check for loose ECU power cables, solder joints, etc.

Are you running a 2.4 Ghz system? Did you check the fail safe count in the GSU?

_____________________________

Gary Jefferson
Tamjets Rep, Jetcat Rep

(in reply to MaJ. Woody)

Post #: 12

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 5:08:24 PM

Ron S

Posts: 1061
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline

Please pass the cause down to us if you figure out your Powerfail. I've had this happen twice to me out of about 8-9 flights, with both times adding minor damage to the airplane. After the first occasion, I added the conductive fluid to the fuel. I had 3 successful flights, then on the 4th flight (at top gun of course) it Powerfailed again. I've never noticed any hint of static charge buildup during fueling - of which some of you have seen.

I alway top off my batts (all NiCd) before every flight. Most of my flight control and big drain items are on a dual 6v pack seperate from from the rx, ecu, and retract/brake servos run off of a separate 4.8 pack. And on every flight I will lose approx 130-150 mAh on the 4.8 pack.

So far, I've banged on the packs while attached to a voltmeter to look for suspect welds/solder joints. I now have the turbine installed on a test stand, and will disconnect wires so I can find out for sure what can and cannot cause a Powerfail.

I'm not saying it is a turbine issue necessarily - but this is my 3rd Jetcat, and 5th turbine in about 5-6 years.

Edit - thanks for the suggestion regarding adding a load while testing - I'll try that out on my test stand. Good suggestion!

_____________________________

-Ron S.

(in reply to MaJ. Woody)

Post #: 13

RE: Flame Out Titan SE - 5/11/2008 5:25:04 PM

KC36330

Posts: 2528
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaJ. Woody

...................... Interesting, I checked the statistic menu and there is a display for low battery cut outs and the value displayed is zero. Should this not say 1 since I was given a power fail error?

a power fail results in the ECU not recording the last run, all information in the ECU will be from the previous run.

(in reply to MaJ. Woody)