Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden  
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All Forums >> Electric Aircraft Universe >> Electric Pattern Aircraft >> Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden
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Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 5/11/2008 7:59:37 AM   
sgsterling


 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/6/2005
From: , WA, USA
Status: offline 		Anyone mount an AXI-FAI or Dualski in a Shinden yet? Did you mount to the built-in nose ring, or do a firewall? Do you think the nose-ring is stout enough or need reinforcement?
       Post #: 1

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 5/14/2008 5:33:50 AM   
woodie


 

Posts: 271
Joined: 6/10/2002
From: Placerville, CA, USA
Status: online 		I am not familiar with the nose structure of the Shinden nor what composites are used? Pictures might help.

Woodie

(in reply to sgsterling)
       Post #: 2

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/9/2008 9:27:04 PM   
M A W


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 6/3/2008
From: Basingstoke, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi, I'm also putting together a Shinden and I was wondering did you get round the mounting of the E - motor?

I was also looking at monting the motor to the back of the carbon nose ring, I did consider beefing it up a bit with some carbon cloth and layering it from the fuselage part of the nose onto and around my chosen spacing/mounting plate and the carbon nose ring.

If you have managed to do it with good success, would there be any chance of a couple of pictures showing how you did it.

Regards,

Mark.

(in reply to sgsterling)
       Post #: 3

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/9/2008 9:29:57 PM   
M A W


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 6/3/2008
From: Basingstoke, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi, I'm also putting together a Shinden and I was wondering did you get round the mounting of the E - motor?

I was also looking at mounting the motor to the back of the carbon nose ring, I have considered beefing it up a bit with some carbon cloth and layering it from the fuselage part of the nose onto and around my chosen spacing/mounting plate and the carbon nose ring.

If you have managed to do it with good success, would there be any chance of a couple of pictures showing how you did it.

Regards,

Mark.

(in reply to sgsterling)
       Post #: 4

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/9/2008 9:30:33 PM   
can773



Posts: 1611
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		There have been many failures of aircraft with nose ring mounted outrunners, and lots of info in this forum. I think the consensus is that if you nose ring mount then you must support the rear of the motor with a bearing or bushing to prevent it from moving around.

Seems that the firewall mounted setups are not nearly as fragile.


_____________________________

Chad Northeast

(in reply to M A W)
       Post #: 5

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/9/2008 9:53:28 PM   
M A W


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 6/3/2008
From: Basingstoke, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Chad,

Thanks for your post and also for replying to my PM from a few days back.

I have just been sat out in the workshop trying to make my mind up what's the best way to go. As you said there have been many reported failures of nose ring mounted motors! so I think I will go for a std bulk head option - but a lighter version over the kit one and then build a light ply box to get the motor set at the right distance / offset etc.

It's a shame as the nose ring mount is so much lighter............ But I'd rather have a few grams added here and there and have the plane in one bit!

R's,

Mark.

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 6

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/9/2008 10:22:22 PM   
can773



Posts: 1611
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Mark

Can't recall if I sent these to you or not, but here are some pics of how I firewall mount my motors. No extension required, and they are light....firewall is around 15-20g if 1/8" and carbon faced, and maybe 30g if 1/4" and carbon faced.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
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_____________________________

Chad Northeast

(in reply to M A W)
       Post #: 7

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/10/2008 3:54:45 PM   
M A W


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 6/3/2008
From: Basingstoke, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Chad,

Thanks for the photo's of your motor installation - I've not seen them before.

If you remember in my PM I mentioned that the reinforcing skin inside the fuselage stops at the location of the bulkhead for IC motors. If I go for a similar set up to yours I would need to lay some cloth in that area just to beef it up.

Should I still fit a bulk head in the IC location? just lighten it abit, is there a need for it to add strength to the fuselage? it does seem pretty rigid in that area because of the second skin inside. I really want to avoid adding to much dead weight, so I think that I will go for your system.

Thanks again,

Mark.

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 8

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/10/2008 4:59:12 PM   
can773



Posts: 1611
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Mark

The firewall is the only bulkhead in the forward fuselage, other than the landing gear plate and stiffeners. Usually there are enough curves in the fuse shape to make it torsionally rigid without more bulkheads.


_____________________________

Chad Northeast

(in reply to M A W)
       Post #: 9

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/10/2008 4:59:40 PM   
woodie


 

Posts: 271
Joined: 6/10/2002
From: Placerville, CA, USA
Status: online 		Mark, it appears Chad's approach is probably more structurally rigid than putting a firewall in the original IC position and cantilevering a mount forward from that. There is a lot of mass and gyroscopic forces out on the end of that prop shaft that doesn't have the support of a nose ring as used in IC versions.

My personal experience has all been with nose ring mounted systems and I have had no problems with it thru 4 different pattern planes. However, I am aware of many others that have had problems so I am not advocating using a nose ring approach in the Shinden. Having said that, I am also aware of several planes that had problems associated with mounting the motor out on the end of a mount extended from a firewall in the traditional IC location. Too much moment arm with that approach.

If you want to use a firewall mount, I would vote for Chad's approach.

Woodie

(in reply to M A W)
       Post #: 10

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/10/2008 8:38:57 PM   
ual767



Posts: 730
Joined: 12/3/2002
From: Chantilly, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Pics of a Plettenberg mounted in an Xtreme Composite ProLine. Same mfg and construction as the Shinden.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
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_____________________________

If you never try anything new, you''ll miss out on many of life''s great disappointments

(in reply to woodie)
       Post #: 11

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/10/2008 8:49:14 PM   
M A W


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 6/3/2008
From: Basingstoke, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Thank you both, there is a lot of useful info in your posts.

I will definately go for Chad's system, but I will lay some additional cloth in the nose area. As Woodie mentioned, there is a lot of mass and gyroscopic forces and I would feel happier just firming up the area where the motor's bulk head will sit as I think the single skin of the fuselage is just a little to thin and flexible to take the afore mentioned forces over along period of time without eventually show signs of stress or worse!

Thanks again Guy's,

Mark.

(in reply to woodie)
       Post #: 12

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/11/2008 9:18:01 AM   
M A W


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 6/3/2008
From: Basingstoke, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi ual767,

Thanks for the photo's. The interesting thing is that the inner second skin runs right up to the nose ring in your Proline, where as it does stop short in the Shinden.

As mentioned in my previous post and along with the input from you guy's, I am going to leave out the IC bulk head - lay a second skin in for peace of mind and do a smaller bulk head as shown in the photo's that have been posted.

I will get some photo's to post of it's / my progress.

Mark.

(in reply to ual767)
       Post #: 13

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/11/2008 4:40:27 PM   
elan120


 

Posts: 212
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Mark,

Have you decided on the power plant? Meanwhile, what type of "skin" you plan to lay in the nose area? I plan on working on mine soon, and my plan is to go with EVO 30-10.

Regards,
Kevin

(in reply to M A W)
       Post #: 14

RE: Mounting An Axi or Dualski in a Shinden - 7/11/2008 5:23:30 PM