Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL

Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL
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Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/11/2008 4:40:58 PM

balsaeater

Posts: 202
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: p, ANDORRA
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I got a new Saito 180 with sandard exhast to replaces MVVS 160 with tuned pipe which goes into another plane

The Prop i wish to use is the APC 18*6 W for 3d which was what i used on the plane with the MVVS

The majority of flying is low gas with medium for some hover and occasion full power for punch out

The fuel willl be 10% nitro 10% EDL Synthetic (no castor) 80% methanol and will be run rich

plane is light weight 4kg 9 to 10 lbs Graupner 54inch 1400mm Ultimate ( 90 to 150 class)

Just want to verify that 10% nitro is eneogh to turn the bigger prop
or that 18 inch isn't to big for the motor
and that 10% EDL oil is eneogh

I can increase nitro if necessary to 20%
I really prefer not to cut down prop but will if its essential

I can bump up EDL oil if necessary but don't want to use any castor

balsaeater

Post #: 1

RE: Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/11/2008 4:51:44 PM

daveopam

Posts: 4298
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: ELK CITY, OK, USA
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That prop was to big for my 180 Saito. I run 15% Powermaster but I even tried a tank of 30%. The prop is just to heavy for a good spool up. Right now I have a APC17x8 on it. This is a good prop for it but I want a lilttle less pitch. I have a Top Flight power point 18x6 to try but have not run it yet.

David

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RE: Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/11/2008 5:47:58 PM

asmund

Posts: 1876
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: Floroe, NORWAY
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I have an ASP 180 fs and it swings MenzS 18-6 happily at 9000 rpm on 7-8 % nitro. I guess your Saito will turn about the same on this prop too, which is far lighter weight than the same sized APC

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Post #: 3

RE: Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/12/2008 5:13:01 PM

buzzingb

Posts: 1507
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Bruce, MS, USA
Status: offline

The 180 will run well with a 17X6 APC. The throttleup is very good with this prop and it won't allow it to overrev.

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RE: Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/12/2008 5:22:21 PM

rexracer

Posts: 254
Joined: 1/23/2006
From: New Milford, CT, USA
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I run Wildcat 15% in my 1.80 and it turns a MA Classic 18x6 at 8800 rpm. The engine only has about 1/2 gallon through it, and from what I'm told, should pick up a couple, or a few hundred RPM with use. I think 10% oil is too little.

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RE: Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/12/2008 5:39:32 PM

blw

Posts: 4521
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline

10% oil may not be enough.

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RE: Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/12/2008 6:52:43 PM

balsaeater

Posts: 202
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: p, ANDORRA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexracer

I run Wildcat 15% in my 1.80 and it turns a MA Classic 18x6 at 8800 rpm. The engine only has about 1/2 gallon through it, and from what I'm told, should pick up a couple, or a few hundred RPM with use. I think 10% oil is too little.

excellent info s the MA prop is a lot cheaper than a MenzS as what "asmund" uses but I will try both types of props and the APC 18*6

I just don't want to lose the big prop 18 inch braking abilities in the down line and it incredible pulling power upline on WOT

Is formula for Wild cat 15% initro by weight (~12 by volume ) 10% synthetic 10% Castor 68% methanol

10% oil EDL worked fine for my MVVS 160 2 stroke with tuned pipe on 18*6 to 18*10

I wasn't keen to have two types of fuel but if If must I will

Moving up to 15% nittro will dent the budget but can do if nessary

For running in I would be using 15% EDL but I did want to drop tio 10% EDL oil

Found a video from Germany of similar sized ultimate with a Saito 180 shows the great climb out after take off but he tends to be only WOT and tears of the tailplane but lands OK

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8181854658484323128&q=saito+180+3d&ei=7HgoSNOzEovmigLP-I3RCQ&hl=en

I have wrung out my plane 54 inch Graupner Ultimate with the MVVS 26cc and tuned pipe and no issues so far before committing the plane to a Saito 180

I generally fly at 1/3 gas and most acro on half power except long uplines where WOT is mainly used

Any more feed back shoot open to all ides before I test start the engine on Friday as i am still installing it

Ralf

< Message edited by balsaeater -- 5/12/2008 6:56:04 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/12/2008 7:44:56 PM

jaka

Posts: 4427
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Upplands Vasby, SWEDEN
Status: offline

Hi!

To me it seems a 154cm wings span airplane is way to small for a 1.60 MVVS or Saito 1.80 engine.
A much more suitable airplane size would be 185-190cm wing span airplane for those engines. A couple of years ago I flew a SIG CAP 231 Ex (span 185cm) which was powered by a MVVS 25cc engine with MVVS steel silencer.Best prop for that engine/airplane combination was a 18x6 Menz. 18x6 APC was too heavy and gave gyroscopic effects at take off and did not pull as well as the wodden Menz. I also tried a Mejlic carbon fiber 18x6 prop but it was not better than the Menz.

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MVVS, Motul "Micro" all synthetic oil

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RE: Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/12/2008 8:32:35 PM

balsaeater

Posts: 202
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: p, ANDORRA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaka

Hi!

To me it seems a 154cm wings span airplane is way to small for a 1.60 MVVS or Saito 1.80 engine.
A much more suitable airplane size would be 185-190cm wing span airplane for those engines. A couple of years ago I flew a SIG CAP 231 Ex (span 185cm) which was powered by a MVVS 25cc engine with MVVS steel silencer.Best prop for that engine/airplane combination was a 18x6 Menz. 18x6 APC was too heavy and gave gyroscopic effects at take off and did not pull as well as the wodden Menz. I also tried a Mejlic carbon fiber 18x6 prop but it was not better than the Menz.

No its a 1400mm wing or 54 inch so its even a lot smaller than 1540mm

man the power weight ratio is it fantastic

A MVVS 26cc is only ~150 grms more than many 4t 120 motors

the plane follows the propeller no choice really

It means that when you power up and down the plane speed changes with the event no plane behind to push the prop faster

It means so much fast moving air from prop 1/3 the wing span that the plane will fly real slow at 20MPH and can fly in a tennis court

It means that when I start to do the club glider towing back up I should be able to tow a 3 meter glider to 1000feet (330 meters) in seconds with glider going up nearly vertically and then detach and down line vertically ASAP to go again with another glider

I ant the patient glider towwing type

But you do have to be respectful of the power which is really only for WOT in upline and for those who like me like slow acro on 1/3 gas without falling out of manovers

The big prop on half gas keeps noise levels down a lot

You cant do something stupid like a Blender at full gas or the wings will disappear but blender with normal speeds that a typical 90 2t or 120 4t would supply should be doable much the same (I cant say as haven't the ability to do proper blenders yet but my hash attempts were no issue nothing broke off )

My MVVS 26cc will go on a 1.7 meter sokoi and for 183 meter I would opt to buy and use 80cc gasser preferbly MVVS types or similar light power units

I detest to be short for power

But the rapid spooling up of the MVVS 26cc with 18*10 on the 1400mm biplane on a low slow pass was a REAL shocker in in torque roll fly with the wing scraping the grass event EEEKKK

so for those manovers a gyro would pay for itself or just avoid quick spool ups on slow low passes which is my cheaper solution

You can also limit throttle travel to be only 60 to 70% and that would still climb vertically very fast

If I get bored with the extra power I can put in my smaller 90 2t and get bigger planes but so far haven't found a reason

balsaeater

< Message edited by balsaeater -- 5/12/2008 8:41:25 PM >

(in reply to jaka)

Post #: 9

RE: Saito 180 with 18 inch 10% nitro 10% EDL - 5/30/2008 7:22:13 AM

balsaeater

Posts: 202
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: p, ANDORRA
Status: offline

I did the first tank static test in the Ultimate biplane yesterday

been very busy so way behind shedule

Used zero nitro
20% EDL synth oil
80% Methanol

prop APC 18*6w

started fist flip amazing
setting were rich at 1 and 3/4 turn

idle perfect
pick up spool up seemed even with rich smoky tuning adequate for my sports 3d flying

I think the first few flights I will go with that fuel mix and prop

Then after when the MA has arrived go for the MA 18*6

then after one gallon go down to 18% edl Synth oil

and after 4 gallons UK (~5 gal USA) go down to 15% or 12 %EDL and probably settle on 15% or 12% EDL unless somebody knows different that is not enough oil

I will keep going with no nitro until 2 gallons and only add add nitro if it is necessary as the ultimate is hyper light ~4kg ( ~10lb) plane
and most gas use will be less than 1/2 with full gas limited to punch out and upline

EDIT this info from the post 294 Saito 220 wow!!!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3123316/mpage_12/key_Saito%2C220%2CWOW/tm.htm

he might explain pre detonation affects from low nitro low oil fuels that need checking into

Balsaeater

< Message edited by balsaeater -- 5/30/2008 8:28:49 AM >

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Post #: 10

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