RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       



All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pattern Flying >> Classic Pattern Flying >> RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in
Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/14/2008 2:19:57 PM   
rainedave



Posts: 4767
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Status: online 		Technically, that's probably true Ed. However, there are several forty-size genuine pattern designs from the '70s. I guess around the time of the gas crunch the prices of balsa and glow fuel began to climb. There were a number of "economical" pattern designs published during that era, the goal being to allow modelers to compete with a smaller investment. I have no idea how successful any of them were. But, if a Super Pacer competed in a contest would that make it a pattern plane? I mean, Toyota Camrys are winning NASCAR races.

David

(in reply to rainedave)
       Post #: 26

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/14/2008 4:26:38 PM   
windcosmic


 

Posts: 58
Joined: 2/1/2008
From: Vicenza, ITALY
Status: offline 		Wow David, you really have a huge plans database! Thanks again!

(in reply to rainedave)
       Post #: 27

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/14/2008 5:47:18 PM   
Free Bird


 

Posts: 576
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: Somewhere Out There, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Technically, that's probably true Ed. However, there are several forty-size genuine pattern designs from the '70s. I guess around the time of the gas crunch the prices of balsa and glow fuel began to climb. There were a number of "economical" pattern designs published during that era, the goal being to allow modelers to compete with a smaller investment. I have no idea how successful any of them were.


Having just read the Gator Flea article, that's exactly the reason behind the Gator Flea. I thought it looked familiar, now I know that it's a down-sized Compensator. What i found interesting, was the Gator Flea used retracts. It's a pretty sharp looking ship.

FB

(in reply to windcosmic)
       Post #: 28

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/14/2008 6:04:01 PM   
Mad Man Marko-RCU


 

Posts: 235
Joined: 1/2/2003
From: Oakdale, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Back in the mid 70's southern Ron Chidgey took the Tiger Tail and shrunk it to make the Bobcat. Southern R/C had a kit which said on the box it would "Purr with a 29 or Prowl with a 40" with today's engines I would suspect that if it was built lightly that it would be a great 20-32 size plane. I have a kit downstairs and it does show retracts also but I think they would be a little tight fit as a trike. Jim Kirkland's Mustang X was a .46 size which might work well with the 32 size motors of today. Also had retracts. There was a Supra Fly 25 ARF at one time maybe late eighties or early nineties and I have a partially built Aurora 25 kit from MK from about the same time frame.

I spent alot of time working in at Samsung in Korea during the early nineties and at that time 10% nitro fuel was selling for around $40.00 per gallon at local hobby shops. I went to a local pattern contest in Chang Won and all the pilots flew 20-25 size machines. They said that the only guys that flew 60's or 120's were the masters going for the team trials. Had a real ball flying a borrowed "little Arrow" with OS 25 VFDF piped and it was FAST. Had better eyes then.

Hope this helps.

Peace

Mark O


_____________________________

You'll be Glad You went Mad!

(in reply to Free Bird)
       Post #: 29

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/14/2008 6:27:09 PM   
Mad Man Marko-RCU


 

Posts: 235
Joined: 1/2/2003
From: Oakdale, CT, USA
Status: offline 		David:

If Nascar becomes any more business and any less racing you might see a Toyota Prius winning. At least Old Time Pattern is not about the money like most other sports.

Go fast and Roll left.

Peace

Mark O

_____________________________

You'll be Glad You went Mad!

(in reply to Mad Man Marko-RCU)
       Post #: 30

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 2:40:34 AM   
WEDJ



Posts: 842
Joined: 2/21/2007
From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rainedave

Great suggestion WEDJ. I've been perplexed by that odd cloud formation above your left shoulder since I first saw that photo last year.

David


OK, I checked the photo. It is, indeed a wrinkle/wave in the photograph paper.

(in reply to rainedave)
       Post #: 31

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 2:49:48 AM   
WEDJ



Posts: 842
Joined: 2/21/2007
From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

......The Peppermint Pattie was available as a kit here in the US and utilized a .15 sized engine, but it was pattern-like and not a true patternship.................
It's early. I'm still on my first cup of coffee. My comments were not intended to offend anyone.

Ed Cregger


Not to start an argument, Ed, and I am not offfended, but the PP .15 is truly a miniature pattern ship. I designed it to be cheaper, easier and quicker to transport/fly for practice. I have a first place trophy somewhere from a fun fly / pattern event in MA back when. If you read the R/C Sportsman article, it explains all.

Of course, a .15 size has disadvantages in pattern and would not be seriously competitive, but the PP .15 flies just like its larger sibling.

(in reply to Ed Cregger)
       Post #: 32

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 3:01:16 AM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7496
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WEDJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

......The Peppermint Pattie was available as a kit here in the US and utilized a .15 sized engine, but it was pattern-like and not a true patternship.................
It's early. I'm still on my first cup of coffee. My comments were not intended to offend anyone.

Ed Cregger


Not to start an argument, Ed, and I am not offfended, but the PP .15 is truly a miniature pattern ship. I designed it to be cheaper, easier and quicker to transport/fly for practice. I have a first place trophy somewhere from a fun fly / pattern event in MA back when. If you read the R/C Sportsman article, it explains all.

Of course, a .15 size has disadvantages in pattern and would not be seriously competitive, but the PP .15 flies just like its larger sibling.




-


My goal with such a statement was to start dialogue about what is and what isn't a patternship. The reason that I bought the Peppermint Pattie originally was because of its resemblance to Jim Martin's Banshee. But I never once considered competing with it.

I won a pre-novice contest flying an RCM Trainer 60. Does that make that model a patternship? (wink)

The smaller models, at least in my experience, are hurting when it comes to knife-edge flight and point rolls. On the other hand, they seem to excel at snapping maneuvers, spins and Lomcevaks.


Ed Cregger


_____________________________

Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to WEDJ)
       Post #: 33

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 3:52:06 AM   
HighPlains


 

Posts: 2545
Joined: 3/2/2003
From: Over da rainbow, KS, USA
Status: offline 		I think the era of small pattern ships was primarly due to the advent of small radio systems from '68 on. Size wise, there is very little difference between .40 and .60 size models. And it was soon realized that the bigger models could be flown further out making them look smoother.

_____________________________

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

(in reply to rainedave)
       Post #: 34

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 4:30:07 AM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7496
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HighPlains

I think the era of small pattern ships was primarly due to the advent of small radio systems from '68 on. Size wise, there is very little difference between .40 and .60 size models. And it was soon realized that the bigger models could be flown further out making them look smoother.






I agree that that is what happened. However, I always flew closer in and down low, with the judges' permission, of course. That seemed to win me a few points by making the other fellows look like sissies for flying so high and "safe". <G>

This strategy didn't always work. You had to spy a bit and find out about the judges in advance, which is not always fool proof.

Yep, the heavy reed and early proportional systems were huge with huge batteries. This high weight demanded a large airplane to pull it all around.

Pattern changed from backyard mechanics/aerodynamicsts/builders (mostly blue/gray collar in my area) to being similar to modern all-out car racing, with a similar increase in cost. I enjoyed the former era immensely because I could still create/invent and accomplish things with my effort, whereas the later, more professional style of pattern flying places more emphasis on the depth of one's pockets. Both styles needed similar piloting dedication and diligence, but the ability to express oneself creatively was more closely related to the previous style of pattern that we now call classic pattern. I quit flying when it became a buy'n'fly game. Just like I quit drag racing when it was possible to buy a faster car than I could ever build in my back yard. The fun had been taken away, as far as I was concerned.


Ed Cregger


Ed Cregger


_____________________________

Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to HighPlains)
       Post #: 35

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 4:37:59 AM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7496
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rainedave

Technically, that's probably true Ed. However, there are several forty-size genuine pattern designs from the '70s. I guess around the time of the gas crunch the prices of balsa and glow fuel began to climb. There were a number of "economical" pattern designs published during that era, the goal being to allow modelers to compete with a smaller investment. I have no idea how successful any of them were. But, if a Super Pacer competed in a contest would that make it a pattern plane? I mean, Toyota Camrys are winning NASCAR races.

David






Jim Kirkland's Mustang X was a serious attempt at .40 sized patternships. I don't recall him winning enough contests with it to make it a notable pattern model. But there is much that I do not know.

I'm not down on .40 sized patternships that much anyway. It is the smaller models that I do not recognize as "real" patternships. Again, I do not know everything and I do know that in some countries you had to fly in the .25 size class while working your way up to larger engine powered models. So, somewhere in the world, there most likely are true patternships in the smaller sizes.

The only Southern R/C Bobcat kit that I am familiar with had a constant chord wing. The larger model it was allegedly copied from does not. Therefore, it doesn't appear to me that the Bobcat was a scaled down Tiger Tail because of the wing differences. Let's talk it over, whoever said that the Bobcat was a scaled down patternship. I'm just trying to boost dialogue, not say anyone is wrong - or even right.


Ed Cregger


_____________________________

Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to rainedave)
       Post #: 36

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 6:09:10 AM   
Aurora_60


 

Posts: 147
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: kaneohe, HI, USA
Status: online 		My SkyMaster20

still on the bench.... small bench that is.





DM

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Ed Cregger)
       Post #: 37

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 1:00:30 PM   
roncoleman


 

Posts: 543
Joined: 4/27/2002
From: FPO AE, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger


The only Southern R/C Bobcat kit that I am familiar with had a constant chord wing. The larger model it was allegedly copied from does not. Therefore, it doesn't appear to me that the Bobcat was a scaled down Tiger Tail because of the wing differences. Let's talk it over, whoever said that the Bobcat was a scaled down patternship. I'm just trying to boost dialogue, not say anyone is wrong - or even right.


Ed Cregger



Ed, I believe you may be thinking of the Alley Cat.






< Message edited by roncoleman -- 5/15/2008 1:02:15 PM >

(in reply to Ed Cregger)
       Post #: 38

RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 4:26:05 PM   
RFJ



Posts: 343
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Belfast, IRELAND
Status: offline
quote:

Ed, I believe you may be thinking of the Alley Cat.


Bob Cat 1973, Alley Kat 1975.

Ray

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to roncoleman)
       Post #: 39

<
RE: Classic pattern for .20 cu.in - 5/15/2008 6:03:14 PM