RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (Full Version)

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EricOnTheWeb -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/16/2008 4:05:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Empty Wallet

Good luck to ya with your build an all.
I know your excited an ready to get going on it. I know the feeling.
What radio set up are you going with?


I'm putting in a Futaba 2.4 ghz radio in it, s3114 on cyclic(for now) E-Sky 3800 motor, Aluminum motor mount, and a Futaba Gyro...not sure which one yet. I've always had Futaba..I like them A lot, used Futabe in all my RC planes, since I was 11 years old, including my big ass Super Cub...right now.

This will be my first shot at Helis...been wanting to do it since I started in planes a long time ago.. Tried to get dad to get me a Hirobo Shuttle when I was 12, lol.. Dad said... nah...[:o]




EricOnTheWeb -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/16/2008 4:17:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: I had a HBK2 and a Belt CP and learned a LOT from them, but I can say I would have been further ahead if I had the REX to start with.


How's that?...you mean money wise?.. I know the Belt isn't on lines of a more $$$$ T-Rex, but it is a nice flyer and a great learning machine... that won't break the bank if you crash it, like a T-Rex.

Like everyone has said... The Belt is a trainer, and something to get your feet wet with without feeling bad about crashing a 1,000 dollar machine..

I've seen youtube videos of this thing flying, and this one person had the Belt flying upside down with the rotor hitting the grass...
I'm not going with a T-Rex until I can do that with my Belt CP.. that is just freakin awesome.

Mine will have all Futaba stuff, so I'll be avoiding the E-Sky fire electrics, lol. I estimate my ready to fly cost to be just under 600 bucks I think....but I can use the radio for some of my other airplanes as well...

I also plan on having an instructor to get me started in the right direction... he flies a 5,000 dollar Nitro heli on a daily basis..
I'm serious about this hobby, lol...




Rosebud6 -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/16/2008 4:41:57 PM)

Welcome to the club Eric. Is very addicting. Thinking of trying my first invert tonite. Will see how the winds go.




nuttcaze -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/16/2008 4:44:27 PM)

wait, how will going will all futaba stuff keep you from the esc fires? Futaba doesn't make esc's, do they? but either or, all you have to do is replace the esc to avoid the esc fire thing,not replace everything, but the stock servos only strip when you crash, the rate gyro, well you already know they're junk, but I still like flying with them, helps increase my skill faster to always fly the tail, the motors are good, the Rx/Tx sucks, but that is an investment into the hobby not the heli (well the Tx at least), but the esc is really the biggest/only major weak spot on these, but heres the esc's I'm running

Have 2 of these (both on my HBK II's) $10 - https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6458

Have one of these for 1 Belt CP $10 - https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6461

And one of these on my other Belt CP $40 - http://www.ka-planes.com/inc/sdetail/13661

Hey Eric, did you ever see the vid of the HBFP doing funnels? Its the same as what you're talking about, I saw that vid as was like "I'm flying the HBFP till I can do THAT!", lol But this is too much of an addiction to only have 1 heli [:D]
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=89ead4847140dd8c198da12f4e5162d1&t=618997




EricOnTheWeb -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/16/2008 9:37:14 PM)

Hey, Nuttcaze...

Hmmm I think Futaba makes ESC's, but if not, I will get anything but the E-Sky one, lol..
I also like your idea of "flying the tail" to make you more skilled... I'll most likely go with the telebee like so many have had faith in..
All I know is that the servos and TX/RX will be Futaba.. I've never flown at all a heli, so I have lots of trial and error ahead, but I now understand that they are not easy to master, and that it will take time.. I'm willing to put effort into it, and I know some bad times will happen.. Just like anything else I suppose.

I didn't see the video of the FP in a funnle... I actually may get an FP, and fly that before I get the Belt going... Seems people like the FP a lot.





EricOnTheWeb -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/16/2008 9:46:23 PM)

I checked those ESC's you posted..gahhh there are alot to these Helis....oyyy....




nuttcaze -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/16/2008 10:09:04 PM)

I'm a big advocate of learning on the HBFP, twitchy unpredictable, constantly have to chase the tail, yep perfect trainer, fly that and you can fly anything, but then again there are a few people who just never seem to get the hang of it. So it can be a hard choice, but of course after you crash your Belt CP twice and spend the cost of a HBFP just to fix it you might be thinking again about getting a HBFP, but also it comes with a sim program, so you can practice on your comp before trying on your Belt CP, and yes the sim that comes with it sucks but there are ways around that [sm=wink_smile.gif]. I'm not sure if Futaba makes esc's, kinda why I was asking [:D] but yeah theres alot to learn about, but it basically is only a few parts,
Rx
Gyro
ESC
Brushless
4 servos

so its really not that much but figuring out the details of each can be a pain. I like my Telebee gyros, have 3, 1 on my Belt CP, another one a HBK II and the last on my ES600 (E-Smart), they all work great, where as the ESky HH gyro never worked for me, had a crap load of probs with it, don't have any probs with the ESky rate gyros, just the HH one.

But in any case have fun learning on the Belt CP, it seems to have its own learning curve [:D]




planepounder -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/16/2008 11:57:48 PM)

Actually the Rex SA parts are comparable to the Belt in cost being as the head is mostly plastic, blades are $12.99, the speed control also has a governor. The side frames are aluminum (tough). There is nothing really expensive about the SA. It is an ARF so @ $200.00 add radio, servos, gyro, and battery and you are ready. Seems like many people add new ESCs, radio systems etc to HB2Ks and Belts, why not just start with an SA?




EricOnTheWeb -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 2:02:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: planepounder

Actually the Rex SA parts are comparable to the Belt in cost being as the head is mostly plastic, blades are $12.99, the speed control also has a governor. The side frames are aluminum (tough). There is nothing really expensive about the SA. It is an ARF so @ $200.00 add radio, servos, gyro, and battery and you are ready. Seems like many people add new ESCs, radio systems etc to HB2Ks and Belts, why not just start with an SA?


I got my Belt ARF for 100 dollars, so that's a 100 dollars saved right off the bat from buying the SA rex. With the same radio stuff I would put in the belt, I would put into the SA Rex if I had bough it. So the belt will still be a hundred bucks cheaper leaving me an extra 100 dollars for spare parts when I crash..

I'm a strictly new heli flyer(never done it yet) so that extra 100 bucks saved with a Belt CP is a tremendous value to me..
Yes the Belt seems to be cheaper as far as not having carbon fiber or aluminum, but I've heard over and over that it really flies nice and it's a great heli to break yourself into the hobby without getting discouraged over crashing a higher end Heli..

I have respect for everyone's opinion... Yes the T-Rex is a nicer made machine, but as a beginer...I just want to taste what it is like before I invest way to much money... The Belt CP will let me do that[:D]




planepounder -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 3:10:32 AM)

Glad your into helis. It doesnt really matter what we all fly, just as long we have fun doing it!!




EricOnTheWeb -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 3:00:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: planepounder

Glad your into helis. It doesnt really matter what we all fly, just as long we have fun doing it!!



Word up...[:D]


I can't wait to actualy start making this thing come together.. I have to wait even longer though, because I had some emergency household and vehicle issues that popped up[:@] I have my belt on my shelf in plain view so I don't lose the passion to get it going..

I really can't wait to start flying this thing... I'll take it to camp when I can fly it, so I can draw up a crowd[:D].. I love to see little kids smiles when they see something like this... It's cute.




Empty Wallet -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 4:31:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: planepounder

Actually the Rex SA parts are comparable to the Belt in cost being as the head is mostly plastic, blades are $12.99, the speed control also has a governor. The side frames are aluminum (tough). There is nothing really expensive about the SA. It is an ARF so @ $200.00 add radio, servos, gyro, and battery and you are ready. Seems like many people add new ESCs, radio systems etc to HB2Ks and Belts, why not just start with an SA?


YEAH!!
My point EXACTLY!!
One thing you forgot to mention is that with an aluminum head and tail they are actually CHEAPER to fix than a BeltCP.
The head wont break everytime the blade tips nip the dirt.
Nutcaze just admitted that every piece of electronics on the bird are JUNK.
But yet he still continues to defend his position as if he owned the company.
Even after his own Belt burned up and had to fork out the dough to replace all the electronics on his own bird.
I dont get it. What is so hard about admitting you made a mistake.
I made a HUGE mistake when I bought a BeltCP RTF.
This isnt about my own personal satisfaction.
This is about being a stand up guy and warning off others so they dont get screwed as well.




nuttcaze -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 4:54:05 PM)

???? REALLY, QUIT PISSING AND MOANING, first I did not say every piece of esky electronics was junk, where did that come from? I said the esc's are bad when using them on a Belt CP or with a 20C battery, on a HBK II they work just fine, The HH gyros might be junk I haven't had luck with the ONE that I bought, but I'm not gonna say "ALL ESky HH GYROS ARE JUNK" no cause thats not true. some have great luck, and even though my ESC on my Belt CP caught fire you don't hear me crying a river like someone just pissed in my cheerios, no I simply replaced it with a better ESC and kept flying (OMG< Call 911 I had to replace a part on my Belt CP that I was gonna replace anyways, its an emergency, call the national guard, army, navy, call the president [8|]), the ESky servos only strip when you crash and they don't strip on the lighter Esky helis, my HBFP's have NEVER stripped a servo, and my Belt CP stripped 1 and so did my HBK II but those were from CRASHING, not because one day they decided just to go bad, the motors work great till you overload them (which would happen only on a 3100, NOT the 3800 that comes with the Belt CP), and anyone who plans on staying in this hobby will eventually get a new Tx and upgrading the Rx is just part of that, I have my one Belt CP running on FM and works just fine.

SO YOU HAD "ONE" just "ONE" bad experience and you make it sound like you've had more then just one esky and they all were bad, but NO you happen to get ONE bad one and start spewing all this crap about the Belt CP being crap, get a life, sh$t happens and you need to roll with it, do you see every Belt CP owner coming on here and saying how much they hate their Belt CP??? NO YOU DO NOT, the company you bought your Belt CP offered to replace it but you choose not too, fine thats your deal, but without that you have NO ground to stand on when making your argument, but you need to cut the "Belt CP's are crap" stuff or take it to another thread.

Don't try drawing my experiences into your aregument that I don't agree with, if I thought ESky heli were junk do you honestly think I'd own 7?? I just don't understand what you're smoking to come up with all these weird conclusions. The parts I listed in my earlier post were not parts that are bad on the Belt CP, those are the parts needed for a heli, any heli. Eric noted that there was alot to these helis so I merely listed the parts needed, not the bad parts that esky makes.

So go be a "Stand Up GUY' somewhere else instead of continuing to spew crap in the ESky forums.




Empty Wallet -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 5:19:26 PM)

???????
Are you kidding me?
Here are your quotes;

quote:

ORIGINAL: nuttcaze

all you have to do is replace the esc to avoid the esc fire thing,
but the stock servos only strip when you crash,
the rate gyro, well you already know they're junk,
Rx/Tx sucks,


Your right. Im sorry.
The batteries are good. Right?




Empty Wallet -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 5:24:37 PM)

And its "piss in your corn flakes" not your cherios you goof.
What I want to know is did you have to piss on your Belt CP to put the flames out?




nuttcaze -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 5:39:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Empty Wallet

???????
Are you kidding me?
Here are your quotes;

quote:

ORIGINAL: nuttcaze

all you have to do is replace the esc to avoid the esc fire thing,
but the stock servos only strip when you crash,
the rate gyro, well you already know they're junk,
Rx/Tx sucks,


Your right. Im sorry.
The batteries are good. Right?



Ok guess I have to clarify

-ESC's junk when used in a Belt CP, work great in a HBK II, and when running 10-15C batteries, not the 20C that comes with the Belt CP, its straining the ESC to the limit
-Servo only strip when you crash as they are meant for the smaller helis, using them on a 450 size heli is stressing them to their limit but if you don't crash then you don't have to worry about them, my HBFP's have never stripped a servo
-rate gyro sucks when compared to a nice HH gyro, I fly with the ESky rate gyros everyday, I prefer to, better flying skills as a result
-Rx/TX sucks when compared to a nice 2.4ghz system whch any person intending on staying in this hobby will eventually buy anyways, the stock Tx and Rx on the Belt CP work fine but are subject to outside interference as any FM system is

And up here in New York its Cheerios [:)] not corn flakes




nuttcaze -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 5:54:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EricOnTheWeb


quote:

ORIGINAL: planepounder

Glad your into helis. It doesnt really matter what we all fly, just as long we have fun doing it!!



Word up...[:D]


I can't wait to actualy start making this thing come together.. I have to wait even longer though, because I had some emergency household and vehicle issues that popped up[:@] I have my belt on my shelf in plain view so I don't lose the passion to get it going..

I really can't wait to start flying this thing... I'll take it to camp when I can fly it, so I can draw up a crowd[:D].. I love to see little kids smiles when they see something like this... It's cute.



Don't worry, I got you covered, making some vids as I put my ARTF Belt CP together, using ALL [:D] Esky stuff except for the ESC (30a Hobbywing oh yeah, card programmable, gotta change the music on it though, have it set to play "Susanna" you know, "ole susanna don't you cry for me" or something like that, lol) and the tail servo (I'm just too lazy to take a ESky servo off one of my other helis so I'm gonna use a spare Towerpro servo, $9) even gonna use the rate gyro, lol. I'll have to put my Telebee on something else, maybe my next E-Smart [:D]

Oh and careful around the kids, not only cause its very dangerous to fly helis near people, but more importantly (not really) the kids will really be laughing and grinning when/if you crash [:D]




Empty Wallet -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 6:02:40 PM)

Ok. Ok.
I'll stop picking on you.



But you thought about pissin on er to put those flames out though,
didnt you?




HowNot2fly -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 6:17:21 PM)

hi everyone,just rgister today and i`m new to rc helis ,few years ago i played with rc cars and flown couple rc planes(not mine)and now i cought the heli fever,as of right now my skill level is at minimum,3 helis down and i can bearly hover,in my case the problem is not so much crashing as the stock helis electronics and motors burn out before i can learn to fly,one of my helis is hbfp and the motor burned out after 2hr ,insted of replacing motors i decided go brushless,i purchesed brushless motors(main came with esc as combo)esc and dual signal converter ,i spend many hr making sure everything is working right, the last test was to let it spool up at 2/3 throttle(main blades removed)and run it for 5-6 min ,after that i checked the motors,esc`s,battery and 4in1 and everything was cold,not even warm,2 min. later i was at my testing grounds(aka garage) for a test hover, turned on transmiter and pluged in the battery,soon as i pluged in the battery POOF fire and smoke,the main motor esc cought on fire and made this buzzing sound,back to the drawing board ,i`m new to helis and electronics and not sure what parts to get,is there guide or chart for right esc`s and brushless motors?sorry for such long 1st post
P.S.
story of my helis
hbfp-motors burned out after 2 hr
converted to bl up in smoke 0hr
grounded

lama v3-motors burned out after 3 hr
grounded

falcon 3d se -motor burned out after 12 min.
grounded




nuttcaze -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 6:42:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Empty Wallet

Ok. Ok.
I'll stop picking on you.



But you thought about pissin on er to put those flames out though,
didnt you?




Ok, truce [:D] lol. Oh yeah piss would hve put it out quick, but luckily I was squatting next to it when it caught fire so I just had to blow the flames out, I still have the burn marks on the inside of the canopy [:)].

Hownot2fly, just curious why you switched to a brushless setup on the HBFP. Unless it was an extreme FP I'd have just stuck to stock motors or the slo-max motor, I really couldn't begin to imagine how many flights and how much time I have on my main motor, and I've been using 11.1v LiPo's in it for the last few weeks (I'm actually never fried or burnt through a main motor on the HBFP). You can get a Slo-Max for $11.50 and thats a direct drop in (need to change wire connectors but thats it) I plan on using brushless once I fry my stock motors but thats proving to be harder then it sounds, Even with very aggressive flight and the larger LiPo I still can't kill it, and I still have 3 extra motors too (you can get a kit that has a main motor, long blades, tail blade and cheap scale body for $8) then I have a slo-max waiting after the stockers and then I'll finally get to a true brushless setup, but I'll be using seperates on it at that point.


slo-max - http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ORI61107
$8 motor/blade deal - http://www.heli-world.com/detail.aspx?ID=3848

One thing about the longer blades, you need a faster head speed to use them, if the head speed is too slow then the heli will get a really nasty tail bob




HowNot2fly -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 7:46:58 PM)

here is my setup :main motor and esc http://www.cnchelicopter.com/servlet/the-658/4-channel-rc-helicopter/Detail ,tail motor is feigao 4108kv 12x31mm,i have no idea about the esc for tail motor b/c i dont know anything about electronics ,i figure the max amps of the motor=max amps of the esc[8|]?,2 ch signal converter,stock 4in1,stock bat.,tail blades are rigged up stock for now(till i get the prop adapter and prop),main blades are walkera blades-same size as hb but little bit less pitch,the reason i went bl : more power,in most cases lighter,uses less battery and lasts much longer,i have seen posts in rc forums where people got the right bl set up and been flying for 2 - 3 years without any problems such as replacing motors , brushes or electronics,i think thats what i want ,more time in the air learning and less time grounded fixing things, i understand that is a lot of mod for hbfp and i coulod get a better heli but i like my hbfp, it is my first heli i could hover without crashing,also i want to have more than 2 or 3 helis in my fleet in case of any misshaps i still will have something to practice,hmmmm,i think t-rex 600 will be my next victim[:D]




nuttcaze -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 8:58:56 PM)

you have the same thinking I have, get more helis so when you crash 1 you have spares to go fly, but I do wanna suggest a ES600, the E-Smart from ESky, ALOT cheaper then the T-Rex, could be a great way to get into that size class, heres a break down of mine, the whole thing, everything start to finish was under $900, and thats with a Tx, battery charger, and Battery

quote:

ORIGINAL: nuttcaze

I have only just started buying parts for my E-Smart, but right now heres what I got

E-Smart 600 semi-metal kit - $168.95
My Motor - $77.60
Current Servos - $12.49ea (x4)
My ESC - $88.00
Telebee Gyro - $59.99
My BEC - $14.99
The Tx/Rx combo - $179.95
ESC Program card - $12.00
This Charger - $55.95
Charger AC adapter - $17.50
5S1P 4000mAh 25c LiPo battery - $98.80


Total $817.16


Upgrades

Swash plate guide - $3.99
Pitch Control Links- $10.99
Front rear rudder aileron bellcrank - $6.80
Rudder control bellcranks - $13.50
Tail Blade grip set - $15.99

Total $51.27

Plus a few misc connectors - $10

GRAND TOTAL (for Everything including Tx and Charger which most people already have before building something like this)

[X(] $878.43

[image]http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii217/nuttcaze/myE.jpg[/image]

Video Of the first spin up/flight




EricOnTheWeb -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 9:22:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nuttcaze

quote:

ORIGINAL: EricOnTheWeb


quote:

ORIGINAL: planepounder

Glad your into helis. It doesnt really matter what we all fly, just as long we have fun doing it!!



Word up...[:D]


I can't wait to actualy start making this thing come together.. I have to wait even longer though, because I had some emergency household and vehicle issues that popped up[:@] I have my belt on my shelf in plain view so I don't lose the passion to get it going..

I really can't wait to start flying this thing... I'll take it to camp when I can fly it, so I can draw up a crowd[:D].. I love to see little kids smiles when they see something like this... It's cute.



Don't worry, I got you covered, making some vids as I put my ARTF Belt CP together, using ALL [:D] Esky stuff except for the ESC (30a Hobbywing oh yeah, card programmable, gotta change the music on it though, have it set to play "Susanna" you know, "ole susanna don't you cry for me" or something like that, lol) and the tail servo (I'm just too lazy to take a ESky servo off one of my other helis so I'm gonna use a spare Towerpro servo, $9) even gonna use the rate gyro, lol. I'll have to put my Telebee on something else, maybe my next E-Smart [:D]

Oh and careful around the kids, not only cause its very dangerous to fly helis near people, but more importantly (not really) the kids will really be laughing and grinning when/if you crash [:D]



haha, thanks.. I think I've viewed all of your videos now, and yeah.. that would be nice to see a barebones come to life step by step..

Oh and when I crash in front of the kids I'll just tell them to run for their lives cause it's gonna blow up!..lol...




HowNot2fly -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 9:44:49 PM)

WOW i did not know e-sky was making anything bigger then 400,that tell you how much i know about rc helis[8|] i looked at your vid and that is a big heli and it sounds so awsome but it looks less stable then t-rex[:o],far as price i just missed out big time on super deal on ebay,if i had any hair i would be pulling it out[:@], 100%RTF with 2 bat.(charged),7ch transmiter(spectrum)and all the other goodies,the only flight time was the setup and test flight t-rex 600 sold for $820,maybe in the future i`ll be smarter and jump on the deal like that right away,the reason i did not bid was that my skill level is so low, i know those things can do some serious damage and i dont want to get hurt or hurt anyone else,heck even the 400 with cf blades can realy hurt,well, for now i wish somebody would tell me how to choose the right esc for brushless motor so i can get back up in the air without fire and smoke[&o],as lienseced pilot(fixed wing aircraft) i have no problem with the flight mechanics and dynamics it`s just this damn electronics[:@],happy flying[:D]




nuttcaze -> RE: POOF! DOWN IN FLAMES!!! (5/17/2008 10:09:59 PM)

it only looks unstable cause to date it only has 6 flights on it and I've only been flying since Jan. When my Spektrum Tx gets back from being fixed I'll be making more vids about it, but it is actually really stable




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