RE: TopGun photos

RE: TopGun photos
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RE: TopGun photos - 5/25/2008 5:30:29 AM

abufletcher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cocobear
Abu was refering (I believe) to the 1/3rd scale tripe in designer. I frankly thought it was kind of cool, in a service beeten to death kind of way.

Really? Honestly, it looks just awful to my eyes. The list of scale infidelities just seems to go on and on. I've seen lots of great looking Tripes and this is just not one of them. But perhaps as others have said this one had sentimental value.

(in reply to cocobear)

Post #: 26

RE: TopGun photos - 5/25/2008 11:00:26 PM

cocobear

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From: Champaign, IL, USA
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Abu, What scale was the one you are talking about? The one I have mentioned is 1/3rd. Remember, amodel only has to match it's documentation, not reality:-)

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Post #: 27

RE: TopGun photos - 5/25/2008 11:54:12 PM

SDCrashmaster

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Joined: 1/15/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

I can only marvel at the skill and determination needed to compete.

I'm with Abu on this one. Hats off to all you guys.

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Post #: 28

RE: TopGun photos - 5/26/2008 12:06:35 AM

mselby

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From: Bangkok, THAILAND
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Dave's post #20 really sums up several good points. As a competitor at Top Gun you are allowed to pick virtually any scale subject you wish. The decision on what you do rests with you. The rules are a reasonable attempt to level the playing field so that no one type of aircraft has an underlying advantage. The rules are quite clear before the event, and non of us our forced to compete, we come voluntarily.
One comment on the DR-1. I had the chance to see it up close, it was one slot ahead of us on the flight line. It was a good first effort from a new competitor. He obviously tried very hard. Often people showing up for the first year need and gain a bit of seasoning. The judging criteria is tough but fair and if you take the comments on board you can begin to dial in what you need to do to improve your building and flying. It takes some time to ramp up, but that is both part of the game and the nature of going into competition. The vast majority of models at Top Gun reflect a major effort on the part of the modeler in terms of time and passion, perhaps the pictures do not always do justice to this.
Mike

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Post #: 29

RE: TopGun photos - 5/26/2008 4:15:33 AM

abufletcher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cocobear

Abu, What scale was the one you are talking about? The one I have mentioned is 1/3rd. Remember, amodel only has to match it's documentation, not reality:-)

It's the one shown in many photos in the TopGun photo gallery. All red including the non-functional and non-scale tail skid with the ID number of Richthofen's DrI (102/17) but nothing like the color scheme used on that plane. It's the one with the badly painted crosses and what looks like bent wire for the wing skids. In one of the photos you can see that the interwing struts aren't even in alignment. It looks like a 1/10 scale electric Sunday-flyer to me.

I suppose it could be one of those "oh well this is actually based on a non-scale replica" models.

< Message edited by abufletcher -- 5/26/2008 4:44:56 AM >

(in reply to cocobear)

Post #: 30

RE: TopGun photos - 5/26/2008 4:50:15 AM

Thrushdust

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Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Northeastern, NC, USA
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The photos from Wednesday, Thursday and Friday are of the Pro-Am entries. The Team, Expert and Masters classes didn't fly until Saturday and Sunday! The Am side generally has a few newcomers that gain quite a bit of seasoning as Mike said. But, where else in the world can you go and hang out with the icons of R/C Scale such as Dave Platt, Charley Nelson, Graeme Meares, Bob Violett and so many others? Most of these and the other competitors will gladly share ideas and tips for succeeding at Top Gun and other events if you're so inclined to listen and learn, whether it's your first trip or your twentieth trip there is always a wealth of information available.

Mike your A-10 as well as your past entries was amazing, I always look forward to seeing your new and unique project every year!
D. Hayes

(in reply to abufletcher)

Post #: 31

RE: TopGun photos - 5/26/2008 6:20:21 AM

mselby

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From: Bangkok, THAILAND
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Hi Abu,
Showing up at Top Gun for the first time is difficult and intimidating. It is however as Dave indicated one of the only competitions I have seen where the people you compete with will also coach and help you. We do not have very many scale modelers in South East Asia. My first year at TG I brought a drone carrier Tiger Cat. I thought I had done a reasonable job, but I was terrified as to how it would stack up against the other planes there. This was not a case of whether I would win or lose, but whether I would need to leave with my tail between my legs. The model had a static score in the low 94's which was respectable. Dave Platt spent several hours with me going over the score sheet versus the model versus the documentation. There were nearly 3 points "left on the table" that could have been improved. Much of it revolved around my own lack of familiarity at the time with certain aspects of judging criteria versus documentation and craftsmanship. I was able to apply what Dave taught me, and my scores began to improve. In terms of comradery, we knocked out the nose retract on a scratch built turbo Tucano in '07 during a flame out. Bob Violet and Tom Dodgen were with me at 1 AM looking for a retract unit that I could modify to make the Tucano workable. We found an old F4 unit that I was able to remachine. The next morning we were back in business. These are but a few examples from many.
I only saw one DR 1 at TG this year in expert class. I did not see his documentation so I cannot comment on how the build stacked up to the documentation that was presented. This would have been the main criteria for how authentic the plane was. The quality of the documentation also comes into play. I believe the static score was in the average to low average range which would reflect some downgrading perhaps based on things the judges saw that match your observations. As I mentioned in a previous post the contestant was in his first year at TG. He had just retired from 25 years in the special forces and was pursuing something he had dreamed about for many years. It took a lot of effort and a certain type of courage on his part to compete at the event. As some of us continue to age, its good to see some newcomers entering TG. This might help avoid it becoming Old Gun.
Dave thanks for your comments, you did not exactly do badly yourself.
Cheers
Mike

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Post #: 32

RE: TopGun photos - 5/26/2008 7:14:41 AM

abufletcher

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Mike, thanks for your thoughts. And seeing that you come all the way from Thailand reminds me that there really are no excuses. Still, I doubt I'll ever make it to TopGun even as a spectator it just doesnt' fit my particular life circumstances. So I have to live vicariously through the photos. I realize how much I miss of the actual event and the comraderie involved. Still, every model I make I hold up IN MY MIND'S EYE to the standards I see in TopGun (as well as other contests). I usually find myself lacking but am at the same time motivated to do better.

BTW, I guess I'm a little unclear about Pro-Am. Can anyone join the Pro-Am competition or does that also require an invitation? Also, and I'll just throw this out there in case anyone feels similarly, I'd actually be more likely to try my hand at competing if there were something like a REVERSE PRO-AM judging in which the static counted for most of the points, but you needed a minimal required flight score or be disqualified (i.e. no hanger-only queens). All that would be required would be to successfully take-off, fly a circuit or two, and then make a passable landing, that is to say, not crash.

Finally I apologize for picking on this one DrI. As you say it takes a lot of guts to stand by the judging table and on the flight line at a TopGun like event. I suppose I was just disappointed with how underrepresented WWI models seem to be and how overrepresented the DrI is at every WWI flyin. And how almost cliche the "all red Fokker" has become.

It would be nice to see something a bit different from the usual WWI standbys make it into the "big leagues." For example, a 1/4 scale Handley Page 400!

< Message edited by abufletcher -- 5/26/2008 12:20:24 PM >

(in reply to mselby)

Post #: 33

RE: TopGun photos - 5/26/2008 10:23:26 AM

mselby

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From: Bangkok, THAILAND
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Hi Abu,
The Handley Page would indeed be unusual. Top Gun is notorious for heavy cross winds which from time to time wreak havoc with WWI bipes. There has been a slight trend away from the WWI planes, perhaps for this reason. There has also been a trend away from design and scratch build towards kits. This is unfortunate as well, but perhaps understandable given the time constraints that many people face.
Pro Am is by invitation, but one can write in and request an invitation. It gives the opportunity for fliers to compete at the Top Gun level without having to build the model. The model must be a Top Gun type of model. In other words it needs to be more than a stand off scale model, and should have a scale color scheme that can be proven up in a photo or drawing. The judging standards for flight are I believe pretty much the same as the regular Top Gun. There are quite a few fine models in Pro Am, some are former Top Gun models that have exceeded the three year rule. The Pro Am grouping hopefully provides incentive to some of the participants to build and come back in future years in the three primary divisions. There is quite an emphasis on flying at TG, I suspect it will be rather a long while before there is a static with limited flying catagory. Too bad in a way, the static judges at TG are probably the best in terms of even handedness, eye for detail and capability that I have ever seen.Toledo is closer to your static idea but there is no flying component. On model building, every time I make something, I always find that I could have done certain things better. That what makes it a permanent process as well as fun.
Regards
Mike

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Post #: 34

RE: TopGun photos - 5/26/2008 10:23:37 AM

Stickbuilder

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Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
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Abu,

I don't know of any that place a higher value on the static than on the flying (except for maybe some pure static shows) portion. As both Dave and Mike have said, It's a pure competition, and if you build well enough, then you probably would not want to remain in the Pro-Am classes for too long, but would wish to move into either Expert or even Team as soon as you could.

After the Judging is over, we (the Static Judges) are very happy to go over your score sheets with you and explain the downgrades. We don't have the time to do this while the Judging is going on. I only have 15 minutes to check the entire outline of a model, and often that is almost not enough time. There are a few instances where a very large model takes quite a bit of time to move into a certain orientation for judging. Mike's A-10 is a very large model, and requires some planning for he and his crew to re-orient on command.

If at all possible, you should attend Top Gun (even as a spectator). It's mind numbing. Pure culture shock to see so many outstanding examples together at one time. There are obscure models that you will only see at such a venue. What are the odds of seeing one Fairey Swordfish, much less a pair of them. Ed Newman's Storch alone is worth the trip, as is Dave's Duster, or Mike's Hog. There are others that would alone make the trip worthwhile.

It's hard to pick a favorite, because they are all top shelf models. The Competitors are Top Shelf as well. I've never seen any pettiness, or backstabbing, and in fact, I've seen assistance being given by others who stand to lose if you are able to continue. These guys are Gentlemen in the truest sense of the word.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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Post #: 35

RE: TopGun photos - 5/26/2008 12:35:41 PM

mselby

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What Bill says is spot on, you go to the judging table with 100 points which are yours to lose. Post judging if you ask the judge will walk you through the various issues. If you listen, you will learn a lot. If you really take it on board you can avoid the same mistakes and improve quite a bit. It is a heck of a neat educational process.
Mike

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Post #: 36

RE: TopGun photos - 5/28/2008 8:12:41 AM

gt18902

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Joined: 5/11/2005
From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
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I am not one to join to many forums, but want to put in my 2c on this one.
I don't live in the US and can't really understand why I put myself through the pain and hassle to get myself (let alone with a model) to Lakeland every April, but I can assure you that is worth the effort to attend and meet the people who are there. I have not met all the competitors, but those I have are fantastic people. My friendships have made at this event have extended way beyond a few days every April.
None of these great models happen with the people. All with the same common interest and passion. They are all champions. Not everyone wins a 'cup', but everyone is a winner for being invited and actually turning up ready to compete with the best in the business.
You will never get a sense of what goes one behind the scenes from the pictures. In my opinion it is a place where true friendships are made.....and there are also some very cool toy planes.
If nothing else you will come away with a few new ideas, maybe a fire in your belly to get stuck into the next project or do a better job on the one you have on the bench, but if you are lucky you will meet new friends.

Greg Tracey

(in reply to mselby)

Post #: 37

RE: TopGun photos - 5/28/2008 8:14:38 AM

gt18902

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as for the DR1. He sure beat everyone who wasn't there - and certainly the ones who were there but didn't get the dammed model in the air like me...............................

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Post #: 38

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