RE: Test stands for break in (not good)

RE: Test stands for break in (not good)
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: Test stands for break in (not good)

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RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 4:56:14 PM

Tired Old Man

Posts: 11367
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Central, CA, USA
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You can lead a horse to water...

As for the two head designs depicted in Jeffk464's post, neither one of them will adequately cool an engine without assistance from baffling or otherwise directed air. The converted glow engine now running gas runs at much, much hotter cht's than it did when using glow fuel and the gas engine head design on the other was originally intended to be used in an "industrial" application that used a device to force air to the cylinder.

Engines where they have been specifically created for our models are even worse since most have had the cylinder fin area reduced for aesthetics and to make them lighter. That includes all the big name makes of rc engines. Testing has been done on literally every engine available in sizes from 24 to 150cc, singles and twins, and all have provided the same or extremely similar results.

As for oil and cooling information, I'm getting out of the public loop. I have no desire to argue and debate the subjects anymore.

< Message edited by Pat Roy -- 6/4/2008 5:41:10 AM >

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Post #: 51

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 5:40:33 PM

Whistling Death

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If a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody around does it make a sound?

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Post #: 52

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 6:28:55 PM

Bob Pastorello

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Joined: 2/23/2002
From: El Reno, OK, USA
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FWIW - It seems there are about three answers.
1. "Proper" Baffling is "BEST"
2. No baffling, but "adequate" front entry holes and rear exit holes is "Okay"
3. Tiny holes, and no exits is "Not Okay"

Logic would indicate to have a "best" setup, we all should figure out how to baffle.
Many of us have lots of experience with "Okay", and seems to be "okay", but we don't know for how long it will be "okay".
Some of us have had the "Not Okay", and cooking ONE expensive motor, whether gas or glow, has helped us move to better setups.

(PS - I'm learning baffling 101. I figure it's about time.)

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Post #: 53

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 7:59:24 PM

Jake Ruddy

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From: Newark, DE, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: the Wasp

rather it is or not better to brake-in an engine in the air I would bet if we did a poll~ we would find that many more engines have been damaged in flight during the braking-in process than being broke-in on the stand !!,,

and,, more planes have been crashed while engines have been broken-in while flying than broken-in on the stand..

This is getting rediculous... where can you possibly come up with a thought like that? If the engine is tuned properly there is no reason at all for it to fail and crash a plane in flight at all.

I am sorry but there are way too many people in general (not directed at you Wasp just a general statement) blaming the wrong the thing because they lack knowledge and don't know better. We all have to start from somewhere but recently I have seen so many people jumping into gas because they can buy a cheaper engine now adays than ever before.

We have threads starting like "REVIEW: some cheap chinese engine" and someone with their first gas engine gives feedback on how awesome the engine is and proceeds to share just how well it runs at factory settings right out of the box. Clearly they don't even know how to tune it let alone provide valuable feedback because it's their first gas engine.. Just what are they comparing it to???

Then you get a comment like this that is based on nothing other than the fact you like to break them in on a stand. Our club has 200 members and tons of them own and fly gas engines. I don't know of one person who uses a test stand and I don't see any planes going in becuase of people trying to break them in on a plane in the air.

(in reply to the Wasp)

Post #: 54

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 8:17:52 PM

the Wasp

Posts: 808
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Rutland, VT, USA
Status: online

""where can you possibly come up with a thought like that""

you said it yourself,,,

""Clearly they don't even know how to tune it let alone provide valuable feedback because it's their first gas engine""

(in reply to Jake Ruddy)

Post #: 55

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 8:36:17 PM

Jake Ruddy

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Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Newark, DE, USA
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Thats not exactly how you made your case or the point you were trying to make

Either way.. this is just one of those threads where everyone knows better and nothing positive is coming out of it. Until someone can show me one positive advantage of breaking in an engine on the stand verses in the air I am done with this thread.

Some one said pipe testing earlier and I still don't agree with that.. on a stand and in a plane are 2 different things and you are still going to have to fine tune it in the air. I would rather be flying than playing with it on a stand... outside of the ability to play around.. I don't see any benefit to breaking it in on a test stand.. I see many more of doing it on a plane.

You guys can continue the hot air fest on your own

(in reply to the Wasp)

Post #: 56

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 9:13:44 PM

the Wasp

Posts: 808
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Rutland, VT, USA
Status: online

Jake,, I thank God I broke-in my MVVS 35 on the stand,,

why,, because I found that the carb on my engine was defected, that is why,,

if YOU search on the MVVS page you will find that "ME" yes Me, found Walbro had a bad batch of carbs that were not pumping fuel,

and it was Me, again Me that notified the importer so the problem could be solved,,,,,

yes yes, me and my engine on my engine stand,,

if I did not plain to brake-in my engine on the stand my chances of crashing my plane or landing it in the high grass or trees would have gone up 90% !!

and if I crashed that plane on it's first flight who's fault would it have been,, mine !!,,, and who would have replaced my plane,, Me, that's who !!

the thing about life is people make life go around, some people have won NASCAR with Chevy engines, other won with Ford and others with Dodge or Plymouth,,, there is no single one way around life,,

now, if you tell me it's better to pick you nose with a finger than a toe I could understand that, but try telling that to a guy with no hands

Jim

< Message edited by the Wasp -- 5/16/2008 10:19:52 PM >

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Post #: 57

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 9:13:56 PM

HellcatAce

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From: Castaic, CA, USA
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Hey I've got an excellent idea. Most all engines come with this cool little book. It's often referred to as the Owners or Operations Manual. I bet the company who makes the engine has thought this pesky little conundrum through and has a section titled "Break In Procedure". Perhaps reading this wonderous source of information can help you to find your very own RC Nirvana!

Most times you give people the instruction manuals and all they do is eat the covers......

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Post #: 58

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 9:44:50 PM

Whistling Death

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From: Alexander City, AL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HellcatAce

Hey I've got an excellent idea. Most all engines come with this cool little book. It's often referred to as the Owners or Operations Manual. I bet the company who makes the engine has thought this pesky little conundrum through and has a section titled "Break In Procedure". Perhaps reading this wonderous source of information can help you to find your very own RC Nirvana!

Most times you give people the instruction manuals and all they do is eat the covers......

In all my Zenoah engine manuals it specifically says there is no breakin period.
It does make reference in the G20 manual that " after 5 hours of operation, the highest number of rotations will be slightly above the initial numbers, owing to having been "conditioned".

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Post #: 59

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 10:00:26 PM

OK2Fly

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Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Antioch, TN, USA
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Here ya go. Some fine 3W examples of what is "best." Personally, I use the OK method of cutting adequate holes in the cowl. I'm too lazy to baffle the gasser in my Showtime 90, but I haven't had trouble yet. When I get a 40% 3D machine, I'll baffle 'er.

Honestly, tho this topic has had the crap beaten out of it. There are pros and cons to both options, but the engine is hopefully gonna fly on the airplane anyway, so...

http://cactusaviation.com/Tech/baffling.html

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Post #: 60

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/16/2008 11:56:42 PM

Tired Old Man

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Test stand use is most effective when establishing torque levels, hp numbers, prop comparisons, and setting fuel flow rates via carb jet changes and mixtures. Without a flow meter you can't do that. For most of the rest of the time it's for the "oh, wow" factor.

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Post #: 61

RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/17/2008 2:23:02 AM

Whistling Death

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat Roy
For most of the rest of the time it's for the "oh, wow" factor.

This is true, each time I have gotten a different size engine I had to put it on the test stand just to see what it was like. I always have the engine way before the plane for some reason.

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RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/17/2008 4:39:20 AM

captinjohn

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I will say it again....a TEST STAND is just that....it is to for testing a engine and maybe a few heat cycles, that starts break in. Capt,n

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RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/17/2008 6:59:04 AM

Tired Old Man

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Looks like OK2 Fly knows a little about baffling

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RE: Test stands for break in (not good) - 5/17/2008 12:33:14 PM

rc bugman