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How long does it take to stop - 5/15/2008 9:58:41 PM   
Adui


 

Posts: 430
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: Dayton, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Doing stupid stuff?

I mean like losing orientation in simple maneuvers or turning left when you wanted to go right?

I Have had several of what I call near misses since I soloed, (Some of the guys I fly with who taught me say they wouldnt have known anything was amis had I not gotten excited.) Some of these mistakes were honest orientation errors due to overcast sky and inexperience, but some were down right scary stupid due to playing and pushing the edge of my very new skills.

For instance, I was flying back and forth, just playing between figure eight practice runs. I would take her down the feild, pull up into a nice 45 degree or so climb, then roll her over upside down and using up elevator reverse direction thereby righting the aircraft, in sort of a half loop. I've practiced this maneuver countless times on my simulator. I was doing great. Then one pass I didnt use enough power in the climb and she stalled half way thru the roll, by the time I recovered it it was going back the other direction (good) but INVERTED (BAD) since I didnt realize I was still inverted till I eased up elevator to climb. Fortunately I am a firm believer in the three mistakes high rule and had sufficient altitude to correct this oversight and keep my precious Arrow in the sky. (Amazing how fast she dives when I dont want her too LOL!)

Understand, Ive only been soloed for about 4 weeks now, but living 5 minutes from my flying feild I go out on average 3 times a week or more so I have at least 25-30 flights under my belt already. I have been noticing more mistakes recently, and it scares me.. ( I usuall land as soon as I can and stop flying for several minutes to get the shakes out LOL)

_____________________________

Chance favors the prepared mind. ~Louis Pasteur~
       Post #: 1

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/15/2008 10:03:56 PM   
gboulton



Posts: 1862
Joined: 5/28/2005
From: La Vergne, TN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adui
For instance, I was flying back and forth, just playing between figure eight practice runs. I would take her down the feild, pull up into a nice 45 degree or so climb, then roll her over upside down and using up elevator reverse direction thereby righting the aircraft, in sort of a half loop. I've practiced this maneuver countless times on my simulator. I was doing great. Then one pass I didnt use enough power in the climb and she stalled half way thru the roll, by the time I recovered it it was going back the other direction (good) but INVERTED (BAD) since I didnt realize I was still inverted till I eased up elevator to climb. Fortunately I am a firm believer in the three mistakes high rule and had sufficient altitude to correct this oversight and keep my precious Arrow in the sky. (Amazing how fast she dives when I dont want her too LOL!)


That's not a stupid thing...that's a mistake made trying to push your limits and get better...and a mistake you A) recognied the cause of and B) recovered from successfully.

Hopefully it'll take you an entire LIFETIME to stop doing THAT!

_____________________________

The free man will ask neither what his country can do for him nor what he can do for his country. - Milton Friedman

(in reply to Adui)
       Post #: 2

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/15/2008 11:14:52 PM   
Adui


 

Posts: 430
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: Dayton, OR, USA
Status: offline 		That makes me feel a little better. You've no idea how foolish I felt when I realized it was inverted, I actually said "Its upside down, How the heck did that happen??" aloud as I reversed elevator to pull it back up (down ele). Then rolled her over upright, took her high and circled a few times to bleed off nerves, landed and quit for the day. (Landing sucked, no damage just not my best. So I decided to quit while I was ahead)

_____________________________

Chance favors the prepared mind. ~Louis Pasteur~

(in reply to gboulton)
       Post #: 3

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/15/2008 11:30:35 PM   
bigedmustafa



Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		It's actually more freaky the first couple of times that you're headed for disaster and you just automatically throw the sticks around without thinking about it and avoid a problem. Just keep flying as much as you can and get some simulator time on the PC when you can't and you'll be amazing yourself soon enough.

_____________________________

To a tree, balsa wood and MonoKote taste just like chicken!

(in reply to Adui)
       Post #: 4

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/15/2008 11:33:18 PM   
flyX


 

Posts: 452
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: el centro, CA, USA
Status: online 		That's why I put Checkers on the bottom of my wing, neon strips on the leading edge, paint the canopy black.
Most of the time I'll see the black canopy first.
To my surprise white is the best all around color. On a hazy day it'll stand out
Red works best for me.
I thought neon yellow would be good...but not.


It might also has something to do with your eye sight. I have simular problems
Flying 2-3 mistake high is good for the model but can strain your eyes.
It took me a couple of months to get us to it.
All of my crashed are the last flight.lol 4 or 5th flight. I'm not as fresh and my eyes are tired.

well... when you're inverted...the airlerons dosn't change.

Don't worry i disintregrarted my contender while it was inverted 5" off of the deck
i did a full roll instead of a 1/2 roll. back to inverted again.
I pull

< Message edited by flyX -- 5/15/2008 11:43:40 PM >

(in reply to Adui)
       Post #: 5

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/16/2008 1:37:02 AM   
n19htmare


 

Posts: 224
Joined: 3/28/2008
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Don't mean to discourage you. But the correct answer seems like..........."never". Don't get me wrong, you may never do that mistake again or any other mistake. But from what i've gathered even the the most professional and veteran flyers make such mistakes. Our club president who's been flying for 25+ years brain farted on an inverted flight and put his electric plane in the lake, and this was last month .
There is a electricity pole/wires by the field, nearly everyone's hit it in my club, newbs to people with decades of experience.

I don't mean to discourage you but such mistakes will happen, it's human nature. Best you can try to do is REDUCE these mistakes and hopefully, you may even get rid of them.
DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED, this is all part of the learning process.

Give yourself enough cushion, keep your altitude high and do not try to impress others and even yourself by doing something that you or your plane is uncapable of.(until you feel that you are absolutely ready to do so )

< Message edited by n19htmare -- 5/16/2008 1:39:26 AM >

(in reply to flyX)
       Post #: 6

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/16/2008 3:31:27 AM   
gaRCfield


 

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Burlington, VT, USA
Status: offline 		Sounds like learning to me, isn't that what you're supposed to be doing at this stage? I know I am!

_____________________________

...because flaps are cool.

(in reply to n19htmare)
       Post #: 7

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/16/2008 4:58:24 AM   
Charlie P.



Posts: 2206
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: High Above Upstate, NY, USA
Status: offline 		How long does it take before you NEVER do something stupid. Gosh. Peolpe don't live that long. I "dumb thumbed" my favorite plane to death last October. As mentioned earlier: mistakes are sometimes a sign you are expanding your abilities. Just occasionally the parameter meets the paradigm and balsa shatters. As Teddy Roosevelt said: "Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”

Eventually you'll learn to blame computer glitches, electrical interference, other pilots or sunspots like the experienced modelers do.

My mentor (back before simulators) told me to sit in my living room and hold the transmitter (turned off) without looking at it and imagine a model in flight and what I had to do for various maneuvers. Practice touching every trim without looking . . . just basically get the feel of where everything is. I think it helped.

I was spotting for the same man (who has been on the cover of Model Avaition more than once) last fall and he taxied out and attempted to extend his antenna. Caught the sleeve of his coat in the throttle and suddenly had a powerful biplane airborne and screaming before he was ready. He recovered quickly, but it could easily have been a re-kit.

_____________________________

Charlie P.
"Gravity is weak but it is persistant" AMA 747089/IMAA 30723

Oh Lord, your earth is so hard and my planes are so frail.

(in reply to gaRCfield)
       Post #: 8

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/16/2008 11:30:25 AM   
rlipsett


 

Posts: 448
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: hingham, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Stupid mistakes never stop happening. Being comfortable with a mistake and flowing with the moment will become easier with more practice. The more experierenced fliers you hardly ever notice when they make a mistake like the ones you describe because they stay calm and relaxed so everyone thinks that was what they intended to do when the mistake happens. The secret to flying is not to worry about not crashing because that fear can cause you to freeze instead of responding instictively to bad situations.

(in reply to Charlie P.)
       Post #: 9

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/16/2008 11:58:06 AM   
speed367


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/1/2008
From: Jamestown, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Well ill tell ya what I did was practice with my rc cars untill I never had to think about what way to turn either comming toward me or going away from me and this really helped me when it came time for flying. Sometimes it gets confussing to everyone its just that we dont like to admit it when were at the field but, Ive said under my breath ( WOW that was close ) more times than I can count. I found that I use to go on my simulator and perform several moves then chicked out when it came time to do it at the field but, if you can just get past that fear you will find you are probably a darn good pilot. Good Luck

chuck (speed367)

(in reply to rlipsett)
       Post #: 10

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/16/2008 1:47:42 PM   
panzerd18



Posts: 253
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: RomseyVictoria, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I find people with bad eye sight lose orientation more often. Or people who like to fly the plane away so far you don't know which way its going.

(in reply to speed367)
       Post #: 11

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/16/2008 2:13:53 PM   
Cyclic Hardover



Posts: 7180
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: New Mexico, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adui

Doing stupid stuff?

I mean like losing orientation in simple maneuvers or turning left when you wanted to go right?

I Have had several of what I call near misses since I soloed, (Some of the guys I fly with who taught me say they wouldnt have known anything was amis had I not gotten excited.) Some of these mistakes were honest orientation errors due to overcast sky and inexperience, but some were down right scary stupid due to playing and pushing the edge of my very new skills.

For instance, I was flying back and forth, just playing between figure eight practice runs. I would take her down the feild, pull up into a nice 45 degree or so climb, then roll her over upside down and using up elevator reverse direction thereby righting the aircraft, in sort of a half loop. I've practiced this maneuver countless times on my simulator. I was doing great. Then one pass I didnt use enough power in the climb and she stalled half way thru the roll, by the time I recovered it it was going back the other direction (good) but INVERTED (BAD) since I didnt realize I was still inverted till I eased up elevator to climb. Fortunately I am a firm believer in the three mistakes high rule and had sufficient altitude to correct this oversight and keep my precious Arrow in the sky. (Amazing how fast she dives when I dont want her too LOL!)

Understand, Ive only been soloed for about 4 weeks now, but living 5 minutes from my flying feild I go out on average 3 times a week or more so I have at least 25-30 flights under my belt already. I have been noticing more mistakes recently, and it scares me.. ( I usuall land as soon as I can and stop flying for several minutes to get the shakes out LOL)



Year ago I found what works for me and change things a bit on every plane i have, Arf or Kit. Colors on Arfs enhance bad orientation. Bottom is the same as top. So with that. I remove the covering from the underside of the wings and make them all white. Can really see it on the ground which is nice if its a warbird or something scale-ish but up in the air it makes a big difference. Expecially withspeed type planes. Going down the back stretch, just rock the wings a bit and sticks right out.

_____________________________

Retired Army Aviator - Excuse Me! You sold me a hair with a cake around it!

(in reply to Adui)
       Post #: 12

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/16/2008 2:34:43 PM   
MinnFlyer



Posts: 19205
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: Willmar, MN, USA
Status: online 		How long does it take to stop doing stupid things?

I'd tell you, but right now my forehead is glued to the workbench and it's hard to type like this.

_____________________________

Mike B.
AMA# 42400 www.gettingairborne.com

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." - Groucho Marx

(in reply to Cyclic Hardover)
       Post #: 13

RE: How long does it take to stop - 5/16/2008 5:02:44 PM   
Deadeye



Posts: 3611
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: Conrad, MT, USA
Status: offline 		LOL, Minn