QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (Full Version)

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RTice -> QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/16/2008 9:59:09 PM)

Hello. I sent an email to the president of one of the clubs, but I haven't received a response back...and this weekend looks to be a beauty. While I will wait for a response from the president to avoid causing problems, I do want to get your feedback regarding flying near an AMA field. I posted my original email question below. Thank you for your assistance.

Hi Mark:
I hope you don't mind me emailing you to ask you a question or two. I got your name/email from the bc flyers website.

Adjoining Fields - I am a beginner in r/c airplanes, so forgive me if this is a ridiculous question. Would I be allowed to fly a "parkflyer" plane in any of the other fields in Bush Park? Specifically, I am talking about the Hobbico Skyfly and Parkzone Slo-v. They both operate on 27mHz. I attached a map with some of the areas circled.

Best Regards,
Rob

[IMG]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e180/RTice/scobee.jpg[/IMG]



PLANE JIM -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/16/2008 10:46:45 PM)

I do not think the president of a rc club can give you permission to fly somewhere else in a county park, You might try talking to a representative from the county that controls the whole park and the activities that go on there. I am sure if you have a Park Flyer membership in AMA that you can fly at this field, as I understand but I may be wrong that Bayou City is a club that has a clubhouse and is a oversee'r but really cannot control who flies because it is a county RC field and any AMA member may use the field except during certain events.



RTice -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/16/2008 11:07:05 PM)

Thanks, Jim.

I don't have a parkflyer membership in AMA. I thought there may be some type of "rule" governing flying fields, such as "no other radio controlled vehicles can be operated within a 1/2 mile radius of an AMA-sanctioned field."

Other thoughts, answers, opinions welcome.



STLPilot -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/16/2008 11:32:35 PM)

There is no rule, you can do whatever you want. After all ... it's Texas! Go have some fun and don't worry about it.



franklin_m -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 12:05:21 AM)

Interesting question. I would argue that even if AMA has a rule saying there is no flying within 1/2 mile of an AMA sanctioned field, unless they own the land, own an easement, or it somehow violates a county, city, state, or federal rule or law, it would not be enforceable. That said though, if the offender was an AMA member, the AMA could take the position that it's a condition of your membership. Of course, in doing so, they'd be handing folks another reason to not be members. Not saying that's a desired outcome, just one potential unintended consequence.



RTice -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 12:11:13 AM)

Thanks again. Ok, let me ask the question another way.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't launch in a nearby field? I am assuming for a moment that most AMA folks won't be using 27mHz. Is this an erroneous assumption?



abel_pranger -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 12:18:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RTice

Thanks, Jim.

I don't have a parkflyer membership in AMA. I thought there may be some type of "rule" governing flying fields, such as "no other radio controlled vehicles can be operated within a 1/2 mile radius of an AMA-sanctioned field."

Other thoughts, answers, opinions welcome.


Rob-

Franklin_m's post above is right on track. AMA rules simply do not apply to you as you are not a member. You are flying on 27 MHz, and that makes it very unlikely that your operation would interfere with operations of the club, so you are are good to go on a moral/courtesy basis as well as legal. Only possibilities of getting cross-threaded with other park users relate to safety considerations in the area where you want to fly, and perhaps park administration has made a delegation of control over park users engaged in model flying to the club. Always good to get permission from the site owner before flying, and that would be the Parks Dept - though they may refer you to the club.

Abel



RTice -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 12:42:53 AM)

Ok, that adds clarity to Franklin's answer for me. Again, I in no way want to infringe on anyone's airspace or frequency.

At least one of the areas that I am considering is down the road behind trees. If they were to fly that far they would most certainly lose sight of the plane just due to sheer distance if not by the "forest" between the AMA field and the open park area.



Silent-AV8R -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 1:41:16 AM)

Many parks only allow flying models in designated areas. I would check with the parks people to say what they have to say. They control the area you want to fly in.



littlecrankshaf -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 3:37:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RTice

Ok, that adds clarity to Franklin's answer for me. Again, I in no way want to infringe on anyone's airspace or frequency.




You probably already know but if by some chance you don’t, 2.4 GHz will allow you to bust right through all the crap. There are some very inexpensive systems out right now…you might can get one in the morning and have a great day flying without all the BS and hoop jumping…highly recommended! The right answer for today’s Park Flyers... May there be light winds, blue skies and great flying for you! Enjoy.



RTice -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 3:52:38 AM)

Thanks, littlecrankshaf. Can you mention a couple of those "inexpensive systems" 2.4ghz systems?
Rob



littlecrankshaf -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 4:36:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RTice

Thanks, littlecrankshaf. Can you mention a couple of those "inexpensive systems" 2.4ghz systems?
Rob



http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPZT8&P=0

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM6600

There are others. FWIW these two examples are even less expensive here at our local hobby shop. Look around a bit.



PLANE JIM -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 6:29:53 AM)

Rob, I hope you have a good time but the picture posted is of Bush Park which is ran by Harris County Parks Dept./ US Army Corps- Although 2.4 ghz will let you fly your model without the worry of interference between models which I commend you for being aware of problems that could be created, the fore mention radio will not give you permission to fly in that park. I hate to see you spend the money thinking that you will be able to fly in any park-but it really is up to the governing body of the park or land.

Some people call the rules "crap" , but they are the rules which most people try to adhere. HAPPY LANDINGS



RTice -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 1:10:46 PM)

I got ya. The parks dept keeps bankers hours, so I won't be able to get in touch with anyone until monday. I will most likely fly in an undeveloped subdivision nearby. Unfortunately, they have like a billion marker posts sticking out of the ground which makes landing quite treacherous.



mscic-RCU -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 2:35:59 PM)

If I may ask, why not just join the club and the AMA and you can fly anytime you want at their field?



2fast -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 2:52:36 PM)

RTice: I wish to thank you for being considerate of the other modelers in the area. Most people just fire up their radio and don't care a wit about others in the area. I agree that your radio is unlikely to cause problems with other modelers. Be advised however that you will be subject to interference from other RC Cars, boats and planes as well as CB radios as they are all on 27 mhz. Furthermore there are only a few frequencies available on 27 mhz so the odds of interference is often very high, depends on how remote your location is.

As to permission required, unless there is a sign prohibiting flying at the park, I say go for it. If they don't want you there they will tell you soon enough. Easier to forgiveness than it is to get permission!

mscic-RCU- Many park flyers and beginners don't want to pay $58.00 for an AMA membership and another $50 to $100 to a local club just to fly their $75.00 park flyer.



Hossfly -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 3:04:56 PM)

RTice, You are in TX and Harris county. You are walking on gunpowder, because flying anything at other than Scobee Bayou City Flyers has enough difficult times with keeping that facility. They certainly worked enough to get it. You will not make many new friends if you mess up their keeping the facility.

Plane Jim gave you, nicely, some good advice. Heed it.

Don't fly in a county park without proper permission.

Current Scobee officers are at http://www.ama-dist-8.org/index.php.



littlecrankshaf -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 3:17:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RTice

I got ya. The parks dept keeps bankers hours, so I won't be able to get in touch with anyone until monday. I will most likely fly in an undeveloped subdivision nearby. Unfortunately, they have like a billion marker posts sticking out of the ground which makes landing quite treacherous.

It is unfortunate that park flyers are forced to be "outlaws", by most people's definition unless they join the AMA or AMA* and fly only at "approved sites". How absolutely pathetic!

The bottom line ; if you are not on your property you are on someone else's and often the best places to fly parkies are public lands...so you can either consider that as park-flyer you are less worthy of enjoying your chosen activity and continue to be subservient to the whim or bad hair-day of whomever you may find “within the system” that you can ask and will give you an answer or proceed with good sense and judgment about safety and enjoy the park as the others routinely do. Heck, if the park officials have a problem with anything you are doing they will let you know...they are there to serve you and that is there job. Usually and most often (important aspect to note) park-fliers have little trouble at most parks unless the pilot is doing something outrageous or highly questionable. So if there isn't any signage in place forbidding your activity and it is not against the law otherwise...give it a go and avoid taking the risk of being on another’s private property.... Remember the park belongs to you also!

BTW… I have never heard of anyone going to jail or even being fined for park-flying in a park. YOU may be asked not to do whatever but further ramifications are slim to say the least. Now, if you fail to head official warnings that would be an entirely different story. Park flyer’s credo might include the motto: It is easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission...especially when a public servant is doling it out.

There are many places within Bush Park that would make good park- flying spots. Like I said earlier 2.4 will allow you to bust through all the crap whether you fly at the park or right next door at some private spot. 2.4 is the best investment a modeler can make in the hobby right now. It is as good for you as it is for all the others.



littlecrankshaf -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 3:29:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 2fast

RTice: I wish to thank you for being considerate of the other modelers in the area. Most people just fire up their radio and don't care a wit about others in the area. I agree that your radio is unlikely to cause problems with other modelers. Be advised however that you will be subject to interference from other RC Cars, boats and planes as well as CB radios as they are all on 27 mhz. Furthermore there are only a few frequencies available on 27 mhz so the odds of interference is often very high, depends on how remote your location is.

As to permission required, unless there is a sign prohibiting flying at the park, I say go for it. If they don't want you there they will tell you soon enough. Easier to forgiveness than it is to get permission!

mscic-RCU- Many park flyers and beginners don't want to pay $58.00 for an AMA membership and another $50 to $100 to a local club just to fly their $75.00 park flyer.

I didn't see this response before my last and I just want to say I couldn't agree more. Excellent points! This is the spirit that will keep the hobby growing despite the old method that continues to choke the life out of it.


Kudos to 2fast for his excellent insight and input.



804 -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 4:14:06 PM)

Hey RTice,

Confused yet? Welcome to AMA discussions!

You are obviously a courteous and concerned person, and are to be applauded for that.
As indicated in your posts, you have already charted the correct path, and by following that direction,
you will be rewarded.

Please don't rule out checking out the local club. AMA has provisions for you to fly with an instructor, your plane or maybe a club trainer, without having to join AMA. This is up to the individual clubs, and you may have to visit more than one.

You may find going bigger and better is not for you, but if you do...

WARNING!!!

This hobby can be EXTREMELY addictive. Next thing you know, you'll have a dozen or so planes, boxes full of parts, and financial woes, all because of these stupid planes[:D][:@]

Well, whichever way you go, good luck to you, and have fun!



RTice -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/17/2008 5:44:32 PM)

quote:

If I may ask, why not just join the club and the AMA and you can fly anytime you want at their field?


Sure. Additional fees, additional restrictions, additional time waiting for the next person to finish, etc. Don't get me wrong, if I continue to progress up to larger/faster planes, I will probably join the club.

It certainly looks like we are talking about a gray area here. I am not so worried about being chased from this place or that place, I just don't want to bring someone's plane down inadvertently.

We are in Texas you know...
Rob



busted2props -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/19/2008 8:01:15 AM)

Bringing down someone else's plane? Go 2.4 and don't worry 'bout it or stay with the 27mhz and fly all you want. If you stay with the 27mhz, just remember what 2fast said. The intereference is unlikely, but it is possible. Just fly and have fun!



KidEpoxy -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/19/2008 6:38:35 PM)

Rob-
There are all kinds of AMA clubs.
Some are lavish resorts with $500/week amenities (ok, kidding, but they are expensive & well stocked),
Some are a bunch of guys flying off some grass for less than $40/yr.

If you havent gone to that club just to sip some coffe & talk about planes
<while your covert mission is to observe the level of rulenazi & wait times>
then by all means just stop by "for chat" without mentioning your plans so you can get a candid observation made.

Maybe they love buracracy, maybe they just love flying, but until you check them out you ont know. But if they are too much (which does happen) then pop by other clubs in the surrounding area till you find guys you are more compatible with.

But keep in mind that if you do join AMA,
that local club can then require you to not fly within 3miles, as an AMA member, without a signed Freq Agreement (that they may not want to sign)



aeajr -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/19/2008 10:17:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RTice

Hello. I sent an email to the president of one of the clubs, but I haven't received a response back...and this weekend looks to be a beauty. While I will wait for a response from the president to avoid causing problems, I do want to get your feedback regarding flying near an AMA field. I posted my original email question below. Thank you for your assistance.

Hi Mark:
I hope you don't mind me emailing you to ask you a question or two. I got your name/email from the bc flyers website.

Adjoining Fields - I am a beginner in r/c airplanes, so forgive me if this is a ridiculous question. Would I be allowed to fly a "parkflyer" plane in any of the other fields in Bush Park? Specifically, I am talking about the Hobbico Skyfly and Parkzone Slo-v. They both operate on 27mHz. I attached a map with some of the areas circled.

Best Regards,
Rob

[IMG]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e180/RTice/scobee.jpg[/IMG]


You have shown a tremendous level of responsibility by your note to the club. As a fellow flyer, I thank you for thinking of others.

As many have stated, neither the AMA nor the local club can give you permission to fly anywhere. The local club, not AMA, may have some level of control as to whom can fly at their club field. But that authority comes from the landowner, not the AMA.

AMA does have guidelines for the location of club fields. There is a 3 mile minimum separation. The purpose of this rule is to avoid frequency conflict between flyers on those fields.

Of course if you or anyone else is flying within 3 miles of those fields, you have the potential of receiving interference from these fields and naturally you create the potential of interference. If you were flying between a couple of fields, then you can be shot down by either field.

Our AMA field welcomes 27 MHz planes, so if you were flying within 1/2 mile of our field you would possibly cause the crash of one of our planes and we would possibly cause your plane to crash and neither would know the cause. Things would just start dropping out of the sky. Personally, I have several 27 MHz planes and have never had a problem, but it can happen.

Likewise people buy 72 MHz systems and fly "off field". Here we have the same situation, only these 72 MHz systems have longer range capability. So now you could be flying 1-2 miles from that AMA field. You have your favorite plane in the air and someone on the AMA field turns on with a radio on your channel and down you go, and you have no idea why. And the reverse is also true.

None of this has anything to do with the AMA. They just try to provide guidance as to what distances are safe.

Fortunately today we have 2.4 GHz, as has been stated. So, when you decide to upgrade to a hobby grade radio system, whether you plan to fly on or off an AMA field, I would highly recommend getting a 2.4 GHz radio.

I have two systems. One on 72 MHz and one on 2.4 GHz. Planes that I fly off field, such as my slope gliders, are being moved over to 2.4 GHz. As it turns out one of my slope soaring sites is a park that is about 1 mile from an AMA field. I did not know that until a few months ago. At that point I started moving over to 2.4 GHz.

Over time, more and more of my planes will move over to 2.4 GHz to eliminate this frequency conflict concern.





beepee -> RE: QUESTION - Flying near an AMA field? (5/22/2008 5:48:55 PM)

RTice,

Maybe not completely clear above, but have no doubt: RC flying is NOT PERMITTED in Bush Park outside of Scobee Field. County policy.

Fly at Scobee. No membership required. It is open to the public. Besides, flying alone is a lot less fun.

Have fun!

Bedford



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