Release agents- What's the differance?  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       



All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Composites Fabrication And Repair >> Release agents- What's the differance? Page: [1]

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Release agents- What's the differance? - 5/17/2008 1:18:00 AM   
sunnybreeze


 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/10/2008
From: falmouth, ME, USA
Status: offline 		In the past I have always had good results with Partall and PVA film in my molds. Good finish and good release. Now on my trusty CST site I see other release films. Coverall film, safelease 30 of telfon base and Frekote. Has anyone used these products and give a review of their preformance?? How are they applied? Brush on or spray. One coat or more? Etc, etc. Most important why use them over Partall and PVA? Is there something I'm missing I need to know about. Let's get this rolling and start talking about it!
Steve
       Post #: 1

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 5/17/2008 5:09:46 PM   
Ed Smith


 

Posts: 2807
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Brantford, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Well maybe I should start things off.

First of all I am a great believer in new ideas, materials, methods etc,etc. If the foregoing was ignored we would still be living in caves. I do not, though, believe in change purely for change sake.

There is a lot of time, effort and money invested in glass work. Making the plugs, molds and good parts succesfully is not easy. I have used the same resin for many years. It does the job I require. Are there other products out there? Probably, but why change. The same principle applies to release agents. I have been using the same wax and PVA for many years. My parts release from the molds. What more can I ask for? Why would I try another expensive product on a test piece when I do not have to?

My attitude is that all of the composite products I currently use provide me with the propertise I need for the whole project. I see no need to change anything.

Ed S

(in reply to sunnybreeze)
       Post #: 2

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 5/17/2008 7:04:22 PM   
Kevin Matney



Posts: 156
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Erie, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Hi
The same of what Ed said. I have tried ALOT of waxes and keep going back to the old same 1 Johnson Paste wax and PVA. Part All is a brand name for CST it is PVA.

_____________________________

Kevin Matney 2 wrongs don't make a right But 2 Wrights make an Airplane
www.Matneymodels.com

(in reply to Ed Smith)
       Post #: 3

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 5/17/2008 7:09:40 PM   
SCALECRAFT


 

Posts: 1320
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: MONTEBELLO, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi

I'm with Ed on this.


But if there is a product out there that I can put down once and get 2 or 3 pulls out with the same quality with no mold damage then I'll change from partall wax/pva system. Cost is also considered.

Steve

(in reply to Ed Smith)
       Post #: 4

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 5/17/2008 11:34:36 PM   
sunnybreeze


 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/10/2008
From: falmouth, ME, USA
Status: offline 		Ed,
I could not agree with you more. I have had nothing but good luck with Partall and PVA. My reason for starting this post was why are their different release agents on the site for sale. I was simply hoping someone had used them and found something wonderful that we all needed to know. Maybe someone will reply later with some new insight.
Steve

(in reply to SCALECRAFT)
       Post #: 5

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 6/4/2008 5:46:54 PM   
Slow Low



Posts: 152
Joined: 4/11/2007
From: St. Thomas, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hey guys - I like what Ed said about change for the sake of change (it rings alot of "catch phrase" "keyword" corporate bells) What a pitfall for some nontechnical managers.

Anyway, don't come out shooting at me, but I don't use anything but 100% carnauba paste wax. The same premium paste that I use on my summer car. I can't stand loosing details to PVA, and like Ed said - it's always worked like a charm so why would I spend anymore money? Mould plugs, in the moulds, on the car, on the boat - everywhere.
I have to say though that the first time was because I ran out, otherwise I'd still be spending the bucks.

(in reply to sunnybreeze)
       Post #: 6

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 6/4/2008 6:00:53 PM   
Slow Low



Posts: 152
Joined: 4/11/2007
From: St. Thomas, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		You know - I thought about that for a couple of minutes and thought I'd better qualify a couple of things. I'm a surface finish freik on my plugs usually, and I use a high quality "production-type" tooling epoxy to surface my moulds.

(in reply to Slow Low)
       Post #: 7

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 6/4/2008 8:26:36 PM   
Randy Etken



Posts: 250
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: Shakopee, MN, USA
Status: offline 		If you want to make wings in a mold with graphics, you can not use PVA. My molds are cnc cut from Ren Board. I had to surface the mold with Duratec Polyester Hi-Gloss black coating for a super hi gloss finish.

I tried Dolphin wax, Finish Kare wax and Sky King wax, (sail plane guy) with KlassKote epoxy paint and PPG Concept DCC acrylic urethane paint. I stuck 5 different wings in the mold. Not fun.

I found a company named Alex Composites. They make a product 818 Xtend, a semi-permanent mold release. This product is like water, you wipe it on let it dry and you are ready to go. No wiping off or PVA. They say you only need to use it every 3-5 pulls. I use it for ever wing I make. PPG Concept DCC is the only paint I have found to work with it. KlassKote epoxy will not. DCC is fuel proof . 818 cost about $80 for a gallon which will last a long time. The wings just fall out of the mold when done.

If you want to do it right use aluminum for you molds not Ren Board.


Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

Randy E.
I feel the need for speed. NCPL racing

(in reply to Slow Low)
       Post #: 8

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 6/5/2008 9:15:56 PM   
TeamSeacats



Posts: 152
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Greenville, SC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Randy Etken

If you want to make wings in a mold with graphics, you can not use PVA. My molds are cnc cut from Ren Board. I had to surface the mold with Duratec Polyester Hi-Gloss black coating for a super hi gloss finish.

I tried Dolphin wax, Finish Kare wax and Sky King wax, (sail plane guy) with KlassKote epoxy paint and PPG Concept DCC acrylic urethane paint. I stuck 5 different wings in the mold. Not fun.

I found a company named Alex Composites. They make a product 818 Xtend, a semi-permanent mold release. This product is like water, you wipe it on let it dry and you are ready to go. No wiping off or PVA. They say you only need to use it every 3-5 pulls. I use it for ever wing I make. PPG Concept DCC is the only paint I have found to work with it. KlassKote epoxy will not. DCC is fuel proof . 818 cost about $80 for a gallon which will last a long time. The wings just fall out of the mold when done.

If you want to do it right use aluminum for you molds not Ren Board.




What kind of resin do you use typically? Ester resins or epoxy?

Where do you purchase the 818 - I looked briefly and couldn't find much.

< Message edited by TeamSeacats -- 6/5/2008 9:23:40 PM >

_____________________________

Jake Kohl
http://www.teamseacats.com

(in reply to Randy Etken)
       Post #: 9

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 6/5/2008 9:38:37 PM   
daven



Posts: 6650
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: online 		This is what I found:

http://www.axelplastics.com/products/xtend.php

As far as I know, Randy uses MGS Epoxy.

_____________________________

Dave Norman

klasskote.com
supertrc.com

(in reply to TeamSeacats)
       Post #: 10

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 6/5/2008 9:41:59 PM   
daven



Posts: 6650
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: online 		A little more info here:

I've seen Randy's wings, and he's definately figured something out

http://www.axelplastics.com/pdffolder/comp_pds.pdf

_____________________________

Dave Norman

klasskote.com
supertrc.com

(in reply to daven)
       Post #: 11

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 6/5/2008 9:52:06 PM   
Randy Etken



Posts: 250
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: Shakopee, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I use Epoxy from MGS or a little cheaper Adtech Pro Buid from Cass mgf. You could buy a gallon of 818 from Composites One in Rock Hill, SC. Or give Axel a call at 1-718-672-8300 and ask for a distributor list.
Randy

_____________________________

Randy E.
I feel the need for speed. NCPL racing

(in reply to daven)
       Post #: 12

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 6/5/2008 9:55:04 PM   
diggs_74



Posts: 1257
Joined: 1/20/2004
From: Emerald, WI, USA
Status: offline 		You're right Dave, the R-200 wings are really turning out well now.. I don't know that I would have kept going thru all the stuck ones he went thru though...


_____________________________

Lee LaValley
NMPRA# 33w

(in reply to daven)
       Post #: 13

RE: Release agents- What's the differance? - 6/6/2008 10:13:50 AM   
scraper


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 10/9/2004
From: christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Hi guys

I have been using a product called zyvax, http://www.zyvax.com/home.html lasts for around 5-8 pulls then its just one coat of slip and your good for another few. It wont fisheye any type of paint, no pva to lift when masking multiple colours, makes thinks much easier. I am using it on aluminium molds bagging uav wings and fuses.

Cheers jared

< Message edited by scraper -- 6/6/2008 10:14:50 AM >

(in reply to diggs_74)
       Post #: 14