How to check the CG on big birds?  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       



All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - General >> How to check the CG on big birds?
Page: [1]

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
How to check the CG on big birds? - 5/17/2008 10:48:34 PM   
Bretd123


 

Posts: 278
Joined: 1/15/2007
From: Boiling Springs, SC, USA
Status: offline
I know this topic has probably come up multiple times but I cant find and old thread on it. Whats your way of balancing giant-scale planes?

_____________________________

They were laughing at me, not with me.
       Post #: 1

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 5/18/2008 12:37:58 AM   
krayzc-RCU



Posts: 5970
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Kannapolis, NC, USA
Status: offline
fly them is how i do it

_____________________________

smooth as silk!

(in reply to Bretd123)
       Post #: 2

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 5/18/2008 12:40:48 AM   
Nathan King



Posts: 1468
Joined: 5/29/2007
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline
Fingers. I get it really close, fly it, and fine tune it until it's perfect. Just make sure you do it on a sturdy spot so you don't punch through the sheeting!


_____________________________

Nate,
WACO Brotherhood #99

(in reply to krayzc-RCU)
       Post #: 3

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 5/18/2008 3:07:29 AM   
Rfabbre



Posts: 186
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Roseville, CA, USA
Status: offline
The best, easiest way is to use the "Vanessa CG Machine". They are a snap to make and work great. Check this site. http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber/Vanessa%20CG%20Machine.htm

Don't let the instructions scare you. There really is nothing to it.

Be sure you use a small level so you you get the plane horizontal (level).

Here are a couple of pics of one of my planes suspended on the Vanessa. You can't see it, but I put a small mark on the fuselege where the GC is susposed to be. When the plane is level, the plumb bob points to the GC. Just move around some weight (probably batteries) to get the plumb bob pointing at your mark.

(in reply to Nathan King)
       Post #: 4

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 5/18/2008 3:08:43 AM   
Rfabbre



Posts: 186
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Roseville, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rfabbre

The best, easiest way is to use the "Vanessa CG Machine". They are a snap to make and work great. Check this site. http://home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber/Vanessa%20CG%20Machine.htm

Don't let the instructions scare you. There really is nothing to it.

Be sure you use a small level so you you get the plane horizontal (level).

Here are a couple of pics of one of my planes suspended on the Vanessa. You can't see it, but I put a small mark on the fuselege where the GC is susposed to be. When the plane is level, the plumb bob points to the GC. Just move around some weight (probably batteries) to get the plumb bob pointing at your mark.


Ok-here are the pics.


Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Rfabbre)
       Post #: 5

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 6/1/2008 7:30:00 AM   
whitedog4491


 

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Fort St. John, BC, CANADA
Status: offline
From ****s. Apparently this is the method used on full size




This method is how I go about checking CG on a plane that weighs too much to put on a CG machine. This is generally the same way full scale planes are balanced. You can’t go lifting a 747 by your fingers!


First, have the plane assembled as RTF, but minus fuel. Find a place where you can put the nose of the plane up against a wall. Take a level and prop up the tail wheel until the fuselage is sitting level. You will probably have to take the hatch off in most cases to find a suitable area to set the level on.

Once the plane is sitting level, place masking tape under the area where the main wheels are touching the surface and draw a line where the wheels contact the tape. Make an index mark where the center of the tailwheel falls in the same manner. This mark will be on whatever you propped the tail up with. (I use magazines). It’s also a good time to measure from the wall, to the point where the recommended CG is. Save that number for later.

What you are looking for at this point is the distance to each wheel from the tip of the spinner. (which should be touching the wall at this point) I use a long straightedge to get the distances

As an example, let’s say you come up with theses numbers:
LH main – 22”
RH main – 22”
Tailwheel – 70”

Now, place a scale under each wheel individually. You will have to re-adjust the height of the other wheels each time to keep the plane sitting level. Add more magazines as necessary. (If you have three scales you can get the weights at the same time but make sure the plane is level)
Don’t forget to re-install the hatch before you weigh each wheel. You will wind up with three weights, one for each wheel.

Let’s say you come up with these numbers
LH main – 9 lbs
RH main – 9 lbs
Tailwheel – 5 lbs

Now its just a simple math problem to find where the CG sits right now on the plane.

Weight x ARM (distance) = Moment
22x9=198 in-lbs
22x9=198 in-lbs
70x5=350 in-lbs

Now add the total of all the moments and the total of all the weights.
Weights 9+9+5 = 23lbs
moments 198+198+350 = 746

Then divide the total moments by the total weights.
746 divided by 23 = 32.43

That number 32.43 is "in inches" how far back from the tip of the spinner to where the plane balances right now.
Compare that to the distance that you measured earlier to the recommended CG location.
If you are off one way or another adjust items then recalculate the weights. The distances (or ARM's) arent going to change so you already have those numbers

(in reply to Rfabbre)
       Post #: 6

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 6/1/2008 7:33:57 AM   
krayzc-RCU



Posts: 5970
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Kannapolis, NC, USA
Status: offline
i take the short cut and fly it and hope for the best

_____________________________

smooth as silk!

(in reply to whitedog4491)
       Post #: 7

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 6/1/2008 2:58:24 PM   
SoCalSal


 

Posts: 935
Joined: 3/5/2005
From: spring valley , CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: whitedog4491

This is a very good way to do it. I have a Excel spread sheet all set up for this method of doing it, Just enter your values in the proper cells and it shows the correct weight. You can use either metric or pounds and ounces. works the same.

From ****s. Apparently this is the method used on full size




This method is how I go about checking CG on a plane that weighs too much to put on a CG machine. This is generally the same way full scale planes are balanced. You can’t go lifting a 747 by your fingers!


First, have the plane assembled as RTF, but minus fuel. Find a place where you can put the nose of the plane up against a wall. Take a level and prop up the tail wheel until the fuselage is sitting level. You will probably have to take the hatch off in most cases to find a suitable area to set the level on.

Once the plane is sitting level, place masking tape under the area where the main wheels are touching the surface and draw a line where the wheels contact the tape. Make an index mark where the center of the tailwheel falls in the same manner. This mark will be on whatever you propped the tail up with. (I use magazines). It’s also a good time to measure from the wall, to the point where the recommended CG is. Save that number for later.

What you are looking for at this point is the distance to each wheel from the tip of the spinner. (which should be touching the wall at this point) I use a long straightedge to get the distances

As an example, let’s say you come up with theses numbers:
LH main – 22”
RH main – 22”
Tailwheel – 70”

Now, place a scale under each wheel individually. You will have to re-adjust the height of the other wheels each time to keep the plane sitting level. Add more magazines as necessary. (If you have three scales you can get the weights at the same time but make sure the plane is level)
Don’t forget to re-install the hatch before you weigh each wheel. You will wind up with three weights, one for each wheel.

Let’s say you come up with these numbers
LH main – 9 lbs
RH main – 9 lbs
Tailwheel – 5 lbs

Now its just a simple math problem to find where the CG sits right now on the plane.

Weight x ARM (distance) = Moment
22x9=198 in-lbs
22x9=198 in-lbs
70x5=350 in-lbs

Now add the total of all the moments and the total of all the weights.
Weights 9+9+5 = 23lbs
moments 198+198+350 = 746

Then divide the total moments by the total weights.
746 divided by 23 = 32.43

That number 32.43 is "in inches" how far back from the tip of the spinner to where the plane balances right now.
Compare that to the distance that you measured earlier to the recommended CG location.
If you are off one way or another adjust items then recalculate the weights. The distances (or ARM's) arent going to change so you already have those numbers



_____________________________

Let''s be open minded.... But not so open that your brain falls out

(in reply to whitedog4491)
       Post #: 8

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 6/4/2008 4:08:22 PM   
whitedog4491


 

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Fort St. John, BC, CANADA
Status: offline
SoCalSal

In Bretd123's post he was asking for different methods for checking the cg on giant scale air planes. What I copied and pasted above is a very effective accurate way of doing so. In your post ( Let's be open minded.... But not so open that your brain falls out) what are you offering? Insults? Very well done.

(in reply to SoCalSal)
       Post #: 9

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 6/4/2008 5:47:30 PM   
gboulton



Posts: 1862
Joined: 5/28/2005
From: La Vergne, TN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rfabbre

The best, easiest way is to use the "Vanessa CG Machine".


Came in here to say this. It's an awesome tool, cheap and easy to build, and works for ANY model...low wing, high wing, biplane, triplane, big, small, you name it.

_____________________________

The free man will ask neither what his country can do for him nor what he can do for his country. - Milton Friedman

(in reply to Rfabbre)
       Post #: 10

RE: How to check the CG on big birds? - 6/6/2008 5:18:47 PM   
SunDevilPilot



Posts: 424
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline
To quote myself from another forum:

I have finally got to the point in my build that I need to balance the plane. Per the instructions the plane should be balanced on the wing tube. I searched the net and found a few ideas but none that I really liked. So, I came up with a balancer on my own.

Parts included:
Four mini-carabeners ($1.00 Each from Home Depot)
Two pulleys ($3.50 Each from Lowes)
One scrap piece of aluminum (More or less free).
Some scrap rope.

Total: About $11.00

Decided to give it a test today and decided it worked really well. The aluminum bar is drilled at the same width as the fuse at the wing tube. This "spreader" bar prevents the ropes from rubbing / binding on the fuse sides or the wings making the device more accurate. Just like large cranes use!

FY: I went with Pulleys because they will not restrict the plane from leaning forwards or backwards like other designs do. The rope simply rolls around the pulleys as the plane rotates.

This is designed to balance a plane on the wing tube, your aircraft may not balance at that point so check your plans before using this design.

Also note, I used the mounting brackets for my garage door to hang the plane from. The lag screws in that will never rip out. Just add another pulley to the opener for the plane to hang from. Can raise and lower it yourself.

In my case I need the weight of a small screwdriver in the tail to make it balance. (Screwdriver visible sitting on the elevator hinge line)

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

"In God we Trust. All others we run through NCIC"

(in reply to gboulton)
       Post #: 11

Page:   [1]
All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - General >> How to check the CG on big birds?
Page: [1]





Jump to: