GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US.

GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US.
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GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/18/2008 2:57:35 AM

LowKey3D

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From: Orlando, FL, USA
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Interesting read. Seems it could impact model flyers in the future. AMA is our voice..

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/27876

< Message edited by LowKey3D -- 5/18/2008 2:58:01 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/18/2008 7:38:18 PM

Hossfly

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From: New Caney, TX, USA
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Some big time stuff there. Wonder where AMA will fit in when the Big Boys gather:

>>>"The DoD plans to spend over $7 billion in research, development, test, and evaluation funds for unmanned aircraft between fiscal years 2007 and 2013. Data from these efforts could facilitate FAA’s development of a regulatory framework to allow unmanned aircraft to have routine access to the national airspace."<<<

_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein

(in reply to LowKey3D)

Post #: 2

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 1:32:04 AM

The Toolman

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From: Warsaw, MO, USA
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Hoss,I think they are talking about predator type aircraft (mil.an police) an such from the jist of the article. I don't imagine they are that interested in our model planes, but I'm sure the fountain of knowledge will chime in to tell me different.....

Ronnie

_____________________________

Ron B.
AMA-862729 PB-2718

(in reply to Hossfly)

Post #: 3

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 5:13:37 AM

abel_pranger

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From: St Augustine, FL,
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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Toolman

Hoss,I think they are talking about predator type aircraft (mil.an police) an such from the jist of the article. I don't imagine they are that interested in our model planes, but I'm sure the fountain of knowledge will chime in to tell me different.....

Ronnie

I think you are right, Ronnie. In AFS-400 UAS POLICY 05-01 issued Sept 2005, FAA says "6.13. Model Aircraft. Advisory Circular (AC) 91-57, Model Aircraft Operating Standards, published in 1981, applies to model aircraft. UA that comply with the guidance in AC 91-57 are considered model aircraft and are not evaluated by the UA criteria in this policy. Seems clear to me that having recently issued the first policy statement in decades regarding model airplanes (and making a clear distinction between them and all other types UA), they are not interested in regulating model airplanes.

Seems like any time regulation of UA crops up in the press, somebody wants to include his model airplanes in the general category of UA that are regulated aircraft. For folks that are so inclined it is possible to make that happen: get caught flying outside the operating envelope described in AC 91-57 (FAA's original AC, not the misstatement of it that AMA makes in the AMA Safety Code) and you are flying an uncertificated aircraft in the National Airspace rather than a model airplane that is exempted from regulation.

Abel

(in reply to The Toolman)

Post #: 4

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 5:57:18 AM

Hossfly

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Yes Abel, generally agreed, however here in another thread we have talked about the meetings planned for some time now.

From AMA web, Community section, Mathewson's blogs; Emphasis added.

>>>Sunday, April 27, 2008

FAA to Convene Aviation Rule-making Committee
by Dave Mathewson 11:21 AM
The acting FAA Administrator has recently authorized the creation of an Aviation Rule-making Committee (ARC) tasked with making recommendations to the FAA regarding the integrating of small unmanned aircraft systems (sUAS) into the National Airspace System (NAS). According to the FAA, the challenge for the committee will be "to propose regulatory language that allows for the maximum safe operations supported by the current technologies, while harmonizing with current manned aviation." The results of the ARC's work will be used to help "in establishing a regulatory basis for allowing sUAS to operate in the National Airspace System for compensation or hire, and to clarify the definition of a model aircraft."
<<<

>>AMA has been invited to participate in this process and will be represented at the initial organization meeting to be held in Washington DC on May 27-29, 2008. The anticipated term of the committee is 20 months. <<<

I strongly adhere to that old cliche about when the Legislature is in session, no one's property is safe. When these big BUREAUCRATS get a whip in their hand anything can happen. Flog the HOSS!

In these cases I ain't the only Hoss!

_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein

(in reply to abel_pranger)

Post #: 5

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 7:21:11 AM

ira d

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From: Rancho Belago, CA, USA
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I think as model aircraft become larger and faster and in general more advanced
technology wise we may begain to some regulation on some but not all models.

At this time you dont have notfiy the FAA or get any permits to operate a model
aircraft, however if you do something with your model to conflict with the FAA
operations they will come after you.

Think of it this way the FAA does not regulate bicycles but if you take one to the
airport and ride on an active runway im sure the FAA will press charges.

_____________________________

Ira d

(in reply to Hossfly)

Post #: 6

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 1:20:20 PM

LowKey3D

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quote:

I strongly adhere to that old cliche about when the Legislature is in session, no one's property is safe. When these big BUREAUCRATS get a whip in their hand anything can happen. Flog the HOSS! In these cases I ain't the only Hoss!

I agree with HOSSFLY here. Our RC community is very small compared to the rest of the voting public and I bet most of the public doesn't care weather we get to fly our models or not..

(in reply to Hossfly)

Post #: 7

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 1:34:51 PM

STLPilot

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It's been stated plenty of the times and inside the current UAS policy that one of the major reasons the UAS is holding these upcoming meetings and clearer definitions is because there are people who beleive taht they are flying under the cover of AC 91-57, when in fact they are not.

But I do Abel find it interesting that you say that the FAA already made the distinction between model airplanes and "others". However many here say or think the AC 91-57 is a optional program. If the AC 91-57 was optional, then there really is no distinction between models???

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Here At The Wall

(in reply to LowKey3D)

Post #: 8

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 5:42:03 PM

ira d

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The way I see it is that AC91-51 is an advisory that is not actively
enforced but could be brought into play if there is a conflict between
a model and full scale aircraft.

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Ira d

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 9

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 9:10:48 PM

abel_pranger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

<snipped>

>>AMA has been invited to participate in this process and will be represented at the initial organization meeting to be held in Washington DC on May 27-29, 2008. The anticipated term of the committee is 20 months. <<<

I strongly adhere to that old cliche about when the Legislature is in session, no one's property is safe. When these big BUREAUCRATS get a whip in their hand anything can happen. Flog the HOSS! In these cases I ain't the only Hoss!

Hoss, I hear the message in that old cliche too. Problem for me is fingering which bureaucrats are the most likely to infringe on my freedoms. I can't ignore history. It is clearly evident to me that FAA has historically maintained a laissez faire position regarding model airplanes, and given no signal that suggest that posture is changing. OTOH, some in AMA clearly want to dominate over anything and everything to do with model airplanes in the US, and erect a toll gate for every prospective modeler to pass though before being allowed to fly his toy.

AMA's involvement in drafting of FAA regulatory process is a fox in the hen house looking to fix something that ain't broken.

Abel

(in reply to Hossfly)

Post #: 10

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 9:23:56 PM

804

Posts: 224
Joined: 9/17/2005
From: sheridan, IN, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

<snipped>

>>AMA has been invited to participate in this process and will be represented at the initial organization meeting to be held in Washington DC on May 27-29, 2008. The anticipated term of the committee is 20 months. <<<

I strongly adhere to that old cliche about when the Legislature is in session, no one's property is safe. When these big BUREAUCRATS get a whip in their hand anything can happen. Flog the HOSS! In these cases I ain't the only Hoss!

Hoss, I hear the message in that old cliche too. Problem for me is fingering which bureaucrats are the most likely to infringe on my freedoms. I can't ignore history. It is clearly evident to me that FAA has historically maintained a laissez faire position regarding model airplanes, and given no signal that suggest that posture is changing. OTOH, some in AMA clearly want to dominate over anything and everything to do with model airplanes in the US, and erect a toll gate for every prospective modeler to pass though before being allowed to fly his toy.

AMA's involvement in drafting of FAA regulatory process is a fox in the hen house looking to fix something that ain't broken.

Abel

But since FAA invited AMA, not the other way around, maybe something is in the air. I'm glad someone representing us will be there.

(in reply to abel_pranger)

Post #: 11

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 9:48:02 PM

The Toolman

Posts: 808
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From: Warsaw, MO, USA
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quote:

AMA's involvement in drafting of FAA regulatory process is a fox in the hen house looking to fix something that ain't broken

My 3 reasons are

1. Yours above
2. Making us think they are really looking out for us when the FAA will do as it pleases anyway
3. Try to fix it where they (ama) can never have any competition if somebody else wanted to start an insurance org. for RC planes.

Ama was probably great at one time, but as all biz's an org's grow big there gets to be a lot of greed an corruption involved in'em.
Heck, just look at how our own govt. has gotten corrupted.

Ronnie

Edit for spelling

< Message edited by The Toolman -- 5/19/2008 9:56:23 PM >

_____________________________

Ron B.
AMA-862729 PB-2718

(in reply to abel_pranger)

Post #: 12

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/19/2008 10:13:23 PM

NorfolkSouthern

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Yes, the AMA's involvement is a very good thing. If it were not for that organization, an FCC license would still be required under restricted frequencies for RC. I have too much time and money invested in my planes and equipment to see it all go to waste. Here's my opinion: To the likes of the EAA, AOPA, and others, we are probably about as welcome on their turf as the street corner dope dealers, pan handlers, crack heads, and prostitutes are in a nice neighborhood.

NorfolkSouthern

< Message edited by NorfolkSouthern -- 5/19/2008 10:14:49 PM >

(in reply to The Toolman)

Post #: 13

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/22/2008 11:20:24 AM

aeajr

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I am very happy that the AMA will be involved in these talks. Without them there would be no voice for the model aircraft community.

It is amazing how easy it is to overlook the interests of a group and hurt that group without even realizing. I have seen ths happen many times. You need someone there to watch for this.

We will see what happens, but I am glad the AMA is involved.

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Clear Skies and Safe Flying!
Ed Anderson
Moderator
Park Pilot Program Partner

(in reply to NorfolkSouthern)

Post #: 14

RE: GAO report on unmanned Aircraft in US. - 5/22/2008 3:16:26 PM

Silent-AV8R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Toolman

Ama was probably great at one time, but as all biz's an org's grow big there gets to be a lot of greed an corruption involved in'em.

I am curious what evidence you have that proves this statement. It's pretty serious to accuse AMA of being greedy and corrupt and I'd like to know the basis of the accusation.

And I am also glad AMA is working with the FAA on this. They are our only voice. And th