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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring >> Bird 3000 (Electric BOT) aileron trouble
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Bird 3000 (Electric BOT) aileron trouble - 5/18/2008 8:44:53 AM   
Furious Predator


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Kitchener, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I got myself a Bird 3000 for Xmas, and i just put her out on its maiden flight(s) this past week.

the Bird 3000 is a german built Bird of Time, modified to have a wider fuse (fiberglass), so you can add more electronics, electric motor, and ailerons have been added. the wing construction is also built to be stronger, but still has that same sexy profile.

here are my specs.

E-Flight Power 25 motor (brushless outrunner, 0.25 two stroke motor equivelant)
Align 3S 2200 Lipo
E-Flight 65 amp ESC
i had to add 170g worth of lead to the nose, despite the big motor/lipo all moved forward

using some mini servos for rudder and elevator.

i also modified the wing to have flaps along with the ailerons.

each aileron and flap is individually powered by its own HS55 Hitec micro servo.

now, here is my issue:

Aileron control on this plane (at least mine), is virtually nill. i did tests at high and low speeds, and i find myself constantly using rudder to assist in turning.

i did make some changes in the programming (DX7 heli version) AFTER the day of flying. changes such as aileron/rudder mixing, and i added Differential (didn't even know about that before hand).

the HS55 servo's SEEM to have enough torque to do the job. i can push back on the ailerons without breaking anything, but im pretty sure that anymore torque, and somethign would end up breaking (break the servo horn, damage the servo mount, or the aileron itself).

now, i have seen vidoes of this plane doing rolls without any trouble, so i know it is capable, but i am truly stumped as to why mine is not.

i had posted this issue on another forum site (link below), but i figure i might have more luck on here as there are more sail plane guys here.
Take a stroll through the last two pages of my other thread, pictures are posted to help out.
http://www.runryder.net/helicopter/t356435p6/
       Post #: 1

RE: Bird 3000 (Electric BOT) aileron trouble - 5/18/2008 11:56:13 AM   
da Rock



Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: offline 		A couple of possibilities.

The HS55 is a micro servo. It's output is 15oz. That's not very strong. Matter of fact, it's weak. If it's rigging is such that the aileron deflection is adequate, the leverage disadvantage to those tiny servos cannot possibly help the little guys.

Weight is always a consideration, but the BOT can easily handle both the added weight of flaps as well as stronger servo's. And Hitec makes the HS225 servos. They're slightly larger than the micros, but still only 3/4oz each and they produce torque greater than the average standard servo. They're also not expensive. I think they're just over $20 at Tower.

BTW, another weakness of too small servo use is the failure rate. The gearing in smaller servos is often inadequate to stand up to the shocks a bigger bird will see. The tiny geartrains break under those impacts.








< Message edited by da Rock -- 5/18/2008 11:57:43 AM >

(in reply to Furious Predator)
       Post #: 2

RE: Bird 3000 (Electric BOT) aileron trouble - 5/18/2008 12:11:31 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6697
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: offline 		You also should consider rigging the larger servos with aileron differential. By having the up aileron deflect more than the down aileron, a positive yaw is introduced. Most often, of greater importance is that a negative yaw is NOT produced.

But this won't matter much until the ailerons actually start to roll the airplane. And until they deflect enough to do that, it's moot.

BTW, you've got a simple situation. If the airplane isn't rolling, the ailerons aren't effective enough. Their effectiveness is a function of deflection. If they're not deflecting enough, they don't roll the airplane. Failure to deflect enough comes from either inadequate rigging or inadequate power from the servo.

But you can try a simple test first. Rig what you've got for greater deflection than the mfg's recommendation and you'll prove or disprove the servo power. Keep in mind that they've made the recommendation because it's what works best for them. If the airplane doesn't roll adequately, then try stronger servos.

(in reply to da Rock)
       Post #: 3

RE: Bird 3000 (Electric BOT) aileron trouble - 5/18/2008 5:49:33 PM   
Furious Predator


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Kitchener, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		i have already have the differential programmed in, but i havnt tried it out yet.

aileron throw is currently set of maximum throw without binding, there are pics in the link i provided showing the throw.

but i think i'll look into those other servoes, i have had experience with these before and i figured they would be sufficient to move an aileron.

thanks.

(in reply to da Rock)
       Post #: 4

RE: Bird 3000 (Electric BOT) aileron trouble - 5/19/2008 6:00:21 AM   
Furious Predator


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Kitchener, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I placed an order for those servoes you recommended, im getting the metal gear version. they seem to have pretty good specs, and should arrive in a couple days. i'll report back after replacing the servoes and going up for another flight. i dont want to fly with these servoes again, assuming they are the problem. but i honestly thought the HS55's would have enough balls behind them to do the job. i never would have thought a 20mph wind would over power them.

(in reply to Furious Predator)
       Post #: 5

RE: Bird 3000 (Electric BOT) aileron trouble - 7/22/2008 5:30:31 PM   
mred33


 

Posts: 267
Joined: 5/12/2006
From: Glenwood, GA, USA
Status: offline 		So how do the new servos work? I have used the HS55 a couple of times and changed them out on both planes. Just not enough servo for anything bigger then an E foam type plane for me. Let us know how the new servos worked out.
Ed

_____________________________

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING, BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS

(in reply to Furious Predator)
       Post #: 6

RE: Bird 3000 (Electric BOT) aileron trouble - 7/22/2008 6:34:00 PM   
Alex.schweig


 

Posts: 332
Joined: 5/29/2006
From: LimaLima, PERU
Status: offline 		I have used the equivalent of the 55s (Hextronik 9 Gram) in floaters and am not at all satisfied with the amount of torque or the response speed. From now on I am using Futaba S3114 micros...

_____________________________

(Previously Zagiz) Lima, Peru... Great wind, great slopes! Proudly flying my brand new Ferox slope racer!
Parque Gandhi

(in reply to mred33)
       Post #: 7

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