RE: Up Grading Belt cp  
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RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/22/2008 10:06:38 AM   
mattydred


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 3/29/2006
From: derby, , UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		ive go lots of play in my cnc head because of the plastic links so it will just be the same. im looking at changing the balls and the links to ones off a trex 450

(in reply to Druss)
       Post #: 26

RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/22/2008 12:10:32 PM   
chris6414



Posts: 621
Joined: 12/23/2004
From: Warminster , PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Druss

why would you want to "fly the tail" when you don't have to??? it's an out dated skill.


"An outdated skill?" There is no such thing when it comes to flying. That would be like telling Airline pilots not to bother learning the basic stick and rudder skills because the planes can fly and land themselves now. OK guys, go ahead and don't learn requisite helicopter skills like learning how to control your rudder. When your in trouble, having the left thumb(in the US) know what to do to get the rudder pointing the right way will save you. I have used both for over a year now and the only reason I like the EFlite G90(telebee/Align twin) is I can switch between modes in flight. I didn't quite understand why one would need both modes as HH seemed to work pretty well. However, I soon learned why "I" would want to switch to Rate in FFF. I learned FFF with the stock Rate gyro and it held well and I loved the way the tail would weathervane in FF. A HH will not do that. Where you point it is where it stays. I know I'm not that precise in fast turns yet and in rate mode the Helo would self correct to the bearing that the helo is on. This way I wouldn't come out of a turn sideways. Much less to think about then having to fine adjust my rudder when I'm cruising along at a good clip. My point being to the new guys is. Learn this "oudated skill" As there is no basic skill not worth learning. Save the money now for the spare parts you will most likely need in the learning phase. Will you spend more time mastering hovering and tail control? Yes, and that is not a bad thing to practice more. Will you crash without an HH gyro? Maybe, however if you do, or did you needed more practice. HH's in my experience have helped many in the confidence of hovering, but in many cases, have rushed new pilots to get into situations they were not prepared for and had they learned the rudder skills beforehand, they most likely would not have crashed. There are right ways and wrong ways to do things, and skipping flying skills is definately a wrong way to learn to fly.

A good practice drill is flying sideways tail in. With a rate gyro the tail will want follow the direction of travel. Teach your thumb and brain to keep it straight. When you can do that in different orientations, you are mastering rudder control.

< Message edited by chris6414 -- 5/22/2008 3:52:09 PM >

(in reply to Druss)
       Post #: 27

RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/22/2008 4:52:37 PM   
nuttcaze


 

Posts: 1549
Joined: 1/3/2008
From: Johnson City, NY, USA
Status: offline 		flying the tail is a good thing to know how to do but as I noted earlier, neither of my Belt CP's are worth a damn without a HH gyro (FF might be different but for hovering, nope no good without) I can fly the tail, really well in fact, but I can't do it on the Belt CP for some reason, and after knowing that I realized it'd just be dumb to try with my ES600, I've never had any probs flying in HH mode, although rate mode is alot of fun, but more so with the HBFP then with my other HBK II and Belt CP (which is getting a telebee as soon as I put it back together, too many crashes) But I don't feel the analogy of airline pilots controls to flying the tail is a good one, you cannot fly a heli if you don't understand how to control the tail, that its self is comparable to the basic stick controls of a real airline pilot, but Druss' analogy fits better (he said it a long time ago) "why would I drive a car with no power steering IF power steering is avaiable?" at first I thought he was just crazy but now understand what he meant, when you move to bigger helis it's just not necessary and to a point dangerous to fly the tail (unless you've been flying for a loong time), rate gyros do weird things, more so then HH gyros, it gets sigifigantly harder to fly a tail the bigger and more powerful the heli (at least with my Helis, setting up my ES600 so that the tail stayed put was not easy)

But personally after having and flying most heli sizes I still feel flying with a rate gyro on a 450 is not a good idea, after my experiences I won't fly my Belt CP's without a HH gyro, I can't afford to keep fixing them, they've had more shelf time then any of my helis

But I do agree with a HH gyro will give new pilots a false sense of security and possibly (usually) lead to them flying outside their skill level and crashing, thats almost a guarantee actually

(in reply to chris6414)
       Post #: 28

RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/22/2008 9:53:38 PM   
Druss


 

Posts: 4136
Joined: 8/10/2007
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		I use the rate mode in my scale helis but in reality a good hh gyro is still going to better than any rate gyro for learning how to fly. Does anyone learn how to pump their brakes anymore after ABS came out??

(in reply to nuttcaze)
       Post #: 29

RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/23/2008 1:41:37 AM   
Kelownan


 

Posts: 114
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: Nelson, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		I do........ my car dont ave ABS but then i couldnt live without power steering i think it depends how you like it.
but then im a hypocrite cos i have a HH gyro

_____________________________

Walkera HM5#10, Esky Belt-CP, Kyosho Caliber 400 EP

(in reply to Druss)
       Post #: 30

RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/23/2008 5:42:55 AM   
eaglewwit


 

Posts: 36
Joined: 2/28/2008
From: , CA, USA
Status: offline 		Anyone upgrade the main gear? Somehow mine accidentally got shredded. Is there a good CNC one out there?

(in reply to nuttcaze)
       Post #: 31

RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/23/2008 6:05:36 AM   
Druss


 

Posts: 4136
Joined: 8/10/2007
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		you don't really want a cnc metal gear... think about it, if you get into real trouble i'd rather have my cheap $7 gear get shredded than watch my entire heli explode... there are reasons that the gear is plastic, even on very high end helis worth thousands they still use plastic main gears....

That said, i hear the blade 400 gear is a good replacement.

(in reply to eaglewwit)
       Post #: 32

RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/23/2008 6:21:50 AM   
eaglewwit


 

Posts: 36
Joined: 2/28/2008
From: , CA, USA
Status: offline 		The blade gear fits right in?

(in reply to Druss)
       Post #: 33

RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/23/2008 12:23:41 PM   
chris6414



Posts: 621
Joined: 12/23/2004
From: Warminster , PA, USA
Status: offline 		MX-400/450 gear too. Pretty tuff gear with a bearing installed($6) but will still give in a hard sudden stoppage. I had a sudden stoppage the other day and decapitated my Belt but my stock main gear didn't shred. I was was hitting it hard testing the limit of my tail in right piros. When I new I was losing it I killed the throttle. My head block is now my weak point with the Align hardend main shaft. Thank goodness for woodies took out the flybar rod, plastic head block, mains and feathering shaft. I got lucky. my test proved to me I need to do the B400 tail mod.

The upgrades I won't do, due to having something give are:

Hardend feathering shaft
Aluminum head (for now)

I have the Ali swash and washout but that is as far I think I will go, for now.

Back on the gyro subject, I never said to not get one. I love mine. I only recommended that one can learn to fly fine without it as that is what I did for about 6 months and am glad I did. I believe it has saved me more than once. I love the power steering/brakes analogy. I learned years ago with manual steering and brakes as some of you have. Who is better equipped to handle a loss of power steering while driving? Most that have learned without power steering, learned how to handle a car without power steering/brakes, and are most likely better equipped to cope with the situation should it arise. You only know what you know. The more you know the better.

< Message edited by chris6414 -- 5/23/2008 12:47:23 PM >

(in reply to eaglewwit)
       Post #: 34

RE: Up Grading Belt cp - 5/24/2008 1:18:08 PM   
rogerd


 

Posts: 92
Joined: 12/18/2003
From: Moosup, CT, USA
Status: offline 		How important is the ATV control on a telebee gyro for the casual flyer. and what will it do?

(in reply to rogerd)
       Post #: 35

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