RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/5/2013 2:44 PM

brockettman

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Well I have to say I'm glad I re-found this thread! I had subscribed to it quite a while back but haven't been getting the e-mail and forgot about it!

I started my B conversion a couple of years ago and the project has been on the back burner. I have the .75AX with an in cowl muffler for the plane, but it sounds like it's a bit sluggish with that set-up. So, I'm re-thinking the power plant...

Anyhow here are a few pictures of the ARF conversion:

Build well!
Ben

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/5/2013 3:27 PM

acdii

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Looks good.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/5/2013 9:47 PM

Bob Paris

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Hay Brockettmen,

I did this conversion of the P-51D to a "B" (with the T.F. conversion) years ago and powered my Mustang with a Super Tiger G90, with a side mounted Pitt style in-cowl muffler. The G90 hauls this bird with authority and I'm using a 13 x 6, two bladed Master Airscrew "S" series prop. I'm using Lado electric retracts and Robart struts and wheels. I also installed the Robart retractable mechanical tail wheel, and everything still works great. Its about a sweet flying P-51 your going to find and looks just awesome in the air. I have to say that it almost lands itself and makes me look good at the model airport. I just love the model.

Soft Landings Always,
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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/6/2013 4:53 AM

brockettman

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acdii, Thanks!

Bob, sounds like a sweet plane, hope to have mine ready for the next season. We'll see!

Sounds like the sweet spot for me will be a two stroke in the .90 -.95 range. Maybe a DLE 20 or a Saito FA-115.

I tried a JBA 15cc in my first one and it fit really nice. Unfortunately on the maiden flight the engine quit, right as the plane lifted and cleared the runway... I still have the wing and a few parts left over

Traded the JBA for the 75AX i have now.

Build well!
Ben

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/7/2013 2:14 AM

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Go with the DLE 20 man you won't regret it. I have one in my TF P-40 and it rocks like a warbird should plenty of war power in reserve. I went and sold my B conversion kit here this fall thinking I'll never use this. DOH! oh well may have to buy another one.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/7/2013 2:30 AM

brockettman

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That's probably the route I'll go. The DLE 20 seems like the gasser of choice for the .60 size warbirds!

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/7/2013 3:19 AM

KaP2011

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After spending 1 1/2 hr tightening the covering on the wings and doing a close inspection of the complete airframe I have come to the conclusion that this is a $200 ARF. I lost count of the flaws. My TF P-51 leaves much to be desired. I'm thinking of selling this one and just building the kit.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/7/2013 3:21 PM

raptureboy

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Sorry to hear you had so many problems. I really didn't do a real detailed inspection but maybe I should. It makes you wonder sometimes when they put something on sale with such a big discount that maybe they didn't get a bunch in that were factory rejects and see how many they can pawn off on the public. Those who are noobs would most likley just except it that way. I would consider the wrinkles on mine to be avg and nothing really jumped out at me as being poorly glued or deformed. Have you thought about just stripping it and glassing her? I would send Tower a detailed list of the defects and let them know just how dissatisfied you are, just because you bought it on sale doesn't mean you should expect less quality. Guess I am going to pull it out of th box again and maybe even shrink the covering.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/7/2013 5:44 PM

KaP2011

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Most people would not consider the issues I've found to be a problem. When I look at an ARF, I look at it from the prospective of a builder. So I tend to nit-pick on small details. For instance, the flaps have a radius on the leading edge. When I build a plane that has a radius like this, I put the center line of the hinge on the center line of the radius. Just works better for me. The center line of the radius and the center line of the hinge on these flaps are 1/2" apart, no way to get them close unless I start cutting and digging balsa. The covering, other than the wrinkles, looks like it was put on by an amateur. The edges and joints look awful.
I do want to change the looks of the plane but I was hoping to not have to recover it. If I had to do that then I would want to just build from a kit. But, then again, that is another can of worms that can get expensive very quick.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/7/2013 8:34 PM

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Yep. It's why I build them as they come and then if they survive a few years then I will tear them apart. I have excepted the fact that an arf will always be an arf and never built to the way I would do it. They are a reasonable facimilie and I try to do enough to make it look a little less like everyone else's so when I'm flying with everyone else I know mine from all the other clones

I don't understand why there are endless threads going on and on about the latetest arf lacking this detail and that detail, when right on the box it says, semi scale or standoff scale.

Oh well, I hope who get it worked out and I'm sure you can always sell it to one us cheap .**stards for 1/2 what you paid

Good luck!

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/7/2013 8:49 PM

KaP2011

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quote:

ORIGINAL: raptureboy

Yep. It's why I build them as they come and then if they survive a few years then I will tear them apart. I have excepted the fact that an arf will always be an arf and never built to the way I would do it. They are a reasonable facimilie and I try to do enough to make it look a little less like everyone else's so when I'm flying with everyone else I know mine from all the other clones I don't understand why there are endless threads going on and on about the latetest arf lacking this detail and that detail, when right on the box it says, semi scale or standoff scale. Oh well, I hope who get it worked out and I'm sure you can always sell it to one us cheap .**stards for 1/2 what you paid Good luck!

LOL, Yeah, I could do that.

Actualy, I've decided to do just what you and a local friend suggested, build it like it is with a few modifications. And, as you said, if it lasts a few years, recover it the way I would want it.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 3:21 AM

harttvboy04

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Just ordered mine today! Had a gift card to my LHS and they matched my Tower Club $50.00 discount. Gonna outfit a DLE 20. I have the Eflite Electric retracts - should be fun! Anything to watch out for?

Best,

Chris

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 5:14 AM

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Other than the reported wrinkled covering, I am very impressed with the completeness and quality of this ARF. The instrument panel is NEAT, so is the pilot, etc. The mechanical retracts are very smooth and appear quite sturdy. I am comparing this TF ARF with the World Models 1/7 P-47 and AT6 that I have been flying. I'd give the TF a big plus regarding design, wood cut and quality, quality accessories and retracts.

I too plan to mount a DLE20 on mine. I bought a Pitts muffler from taildraggerrc. Hopefully, it'll fit nicely.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 5:28 AM

ton2di

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The Top Flite planes in my experience are solid in terms of wood quality and construction design compared to the same class airframes from other manufacturers. You'll notice it especially during the assembly process.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 6:00 AM

YellowAircraft

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Hi,

What's the collective verdict on the supplied mechanical retracts?

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 12:07 PM

Woody218

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft

Hi,

What's the collective verdict on the supplied mechanical retracts?

The verdict is...lose the stock retracts and replace them with some good quality air or electric retracts. The stock mechanical retracts are not up to the task at all. I have used Lado electrics in mine, the one I am working on now will get a set of Wingspan electric retratcs.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 1:45 PM

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Hi Shawn,
Most guys are replacing the entire retract but it is the retract units themselves that are the problem. They are breaking because they are plastic and cannot handle the stress. The wire struts that come with them are pretty strong and a few of us in this thread have used just the wire struts in other retract units with no problems. I put Spring Air retracts in mine and I used the wire struts that came with the plane. I had to drill out the retract unit a 64th for the strut wire to fit as it is slightly bigger than the 5/32nd wires for the Spring Airs but slightly smaller than 3/16ths. I think it ended up as 11/64ths. This way the loops in the wire fit perfectly in the wing and the was no need to do any modifications to the wing for the wire.

So far they have been holding up but I have only been able to taxi with them, several times. I am having problems with the engine running consistently. So it has not flown, yet. I think I have the engine problem fixed but due to other things getting in the way it has not gone up yet.   Since it seems to handle taxiing okay I think it will hold up. Of course I will not know for sure until that first landing. However, other have done this and to my knowledge they have not had any problems with the wire struts giving out.

Edit: Here is where I show what I did with mine. Post 1801 on page 73.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft

Hi,

What's the collective verdict on the supplied mechanical retracts?

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 2:59 PM

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From what I have read it sounds like most on the forum have replaced the mechanical retracts.   I have flown with mine with the stock retracts for about 3 years.    I broke one on landing when I had a dead stick and landed in a farm field. This was my fault. Should have belly landed and everything would have been OK.  They did take a little bit of fiddling to get reliable locking in the up or down position.   The amount of fiddling around could have been worse for me because mounted a micro switch to turn landing lights on and off with the gear.

The real week point is the retract mounts. I have seen a few mounts crack or break on a rough landing.  The mechanical retract may also crack when this happens.  The wire strut is very strong and having something with a compressible spring seems to help.   Being on a budget I ordered some struts from HK but have not installed them yet (one of my projects this winter).   The best thing to do is beef up the retract mounts as best you can.   The newer kits come with some materials (laser cut rib doublers) and supplemental instructions (maybe the latest kits have this already installed).

Other tips I picked up along the way and have used myself.

- Use some washers to shim the rear side of the retract mount.    This will move the wheel further forward and prevent noise over without affecting how the wheel fits into the wheel well.
- The recommended amount of flaps is not enough.   Adjust the flaps to extend as much as you can (it's like 50 deg or over 1 inch of travel). This is almost double what the manual states but really helps with slowing down for landing.
- Toss the tires that came with the ARF. Yes they roll OK but don't absorb shock all that well.   Get some low bounce tires from Robart (my favorite), Dubro, or wherever.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft

Hi,

What's the collective verdict on the supplied mechanical retracts?

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 3:53 PM

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Well one thing we agree on is the DLE 20

It will be my 4th one now. GP giant Ryan, GP pt-17, and TF- P-40 and now the TF P-51. The next in line will be my TF p-47 that I'm building over here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10757077/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm Now my pilots can go through basic flight school to fighter pilot.

Funny story about arfs now. There were 4 guys at my field all flying H-9 mustangs with the yellow tail, one of the guys asked how long they had been flying and another guy who hangs his watch on his tx antenna looks down to check then he goes back to flying; or so he thought. One by one everyone starts landing and as the last one is coming in he says hey it's not responding, it wasn't his plane! Turns out he never realized his plane flew off while he was busy checking his watch

Oh it was too funny, sad but funny. He must of watched for 5 min thinking one of the planes was his. Make sure you know your arf when you fly with your buddies!

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 4:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: I_Fly

That looks more like it but measure before ordering. The wrong length could cause all sorts of issues. As it is some modification is most likely needed to accommodate the scissor in the wheel bay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ken78cvx20

Like these

Correct, these are the ones you guys want. With the Eflite retracts, they will be as close to drop-in fit as you can get with aftermarket, besides the much pricier Robart or Century Jet stuff (I would stay away from the latter). Also, another poster offered that hobbyking has nice struts also. They are in fact the exact same product as "RC Skylite". I know, because I have bought this product from both places and it is the same manufacture. If you guys want, I can mock up a set to the eflite retracts tonight and take a pic so you see what the fit is. The HK info is correct as far as dimensions and pin size. I have 2 sets in operation on built-up planes and they have held up well. Very nice product in person - you'll be surprised that they are this good at this price.

< Message edited by TTRotary -- 1/8/2013 5:23 PM >

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 5:12 PM

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quote:

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Yep. It's why I build them as they come and then if they survive a few years then I will tear them apart. I have excepted the fact that an arf will always be an arf and never built to the way I would do it. They are a reasonable facimilie and I try to do enough to make it look a little less like everyone else's so when I'm flying with everyone else I know mine from all the other clones I don't understand why there are endless threads going on and on about the latetest arf lacking this detail and that detail, when right on the box it says, semi scale or standoff scale. Oh well, I hope who get it worked out and I'm sure you can always sell it to one us cheap .**stards for 1/2 what you paid Good luck!

I would agree with you in most cases, and I would not normally sweat the details. But in this case (1) this is billed as a scale ARF and (2) the quality of the plane I got from tower is definitely not up to par as detailed in my prior post. Retract rails glued in crooked are definitely unacceptable, as is a weak retract design that is perpetuated through many years of ARF production. Even the instructions tell you they know it is weak. How hard is that to fix? Not very. They are just lazy, and this is a TF management issue, not a Chinese build factory issue. And, I have an excellent reference point: my #1 TF .60 P-51 airframe, which is pretty close to flawless. So my conclusion is that TF can and has in the past done better. I agree that this one is worth about $200.

Anyway, no biggie; all fixable. I just get irritated because I am fairly new to this hobby and I am always amazed by how tolerant hobbyists are of stuff that doesn't work or is ridiculously overpriced. Outfits like Thunder Power, Horizon, Great Planes etc must really have been raking in obscene amounts of dough for years before the Chinese got direct USA market access. I am also not a Hobbyking lapdog. There is great stuff (batteries, speed controllers, motors with certain caveats), but also a lot of crap. Figuring out who does what well is one of the more entertaining challenges of the hobby.

Shawn, I think I speak for the rest of us when I say that we'd all be curious as to your take on the quality given the very high build standards of the YA planes.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 6:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TTRotary

quote:

ORIGINAL: I_Fly

That looks more like it but measure before ordering. The wrong length could cause all sorts of issues. As it is some modification is most likely needed to accommodate the scissor in the wheel bay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ken78cvx20

Like these

Correct, these are the ones you guys want. With the Eflite retracts, they will be as close to drop-in fit as you can get with aftermarket, besides the much pricier Robart or Century Jet stuff (I would stay away from the latter). Also, another poster offered that hobbyking has nice struts also. They are in fact the exact same product as "RC Skylite". I know, because I have bought this product from both places and it is the same manufacture. If you guys want, I can mock up a set to the eflite retracts tonight and take a pic so you see what the fit is. The HK info is correct as far as dimensions and pin size. I have 2 sets in operation on built-up planes and they have held up well. Very nice product in person - you'll be surprised that they are this good at this price.

TTRotary

That would be very nice to see how these would fit with the Eflight retracts. I did order a set from HK they shipped out yesterday could be some time before I have them. When I receive them I plan on trying them out with the HK electrict retracts( trying to save some money hope it dosent bite me). I will post a picture so folks can see how they match up. And if they dont work out maybe then I can use the Eflight retracts.

Thanks

Ken

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 7:12 PM

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Welcome to the retail world! I work for a major retailer and I can tell you without a doubt it's all about price point and perceived value. This is what the public wants, something that looks like quality but at half the price. I can also tell you that Tower, Horizon and others are not making a killing the avg gross profit for the retail market across the board is in the 25% -50% range even with chinese goods. Now in regards to this plane being scale;if you look closely on your box it says " almost ready to fly sport scale" that means it's no Top Gun plane and will by it's nature be lacking in many scale details, none of which I will see at 200 yds and going 60 mph

As I stated before I would not except a sub quality item from anyone even if I got it on sale. Tower has always stood by their products and has replaced or refunded anything I was not happy with, within a reasonable time. I rather doubt Hobbico has a full time QC inspector in China making sure every arf comes off the line in perfect condition and the Chinese are some of the most unscrupulous business people in the world. This is a very small nich market and the customers are known to be real cheap skates, and I count myself in there. All in all the Hobbico family of products is good and has it's issues like any other industry. Heck how many ARF recalls have we seen in the past compared to autos?

I shop all over for my rc purchases and try to use as many small business's as possible.

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 7:55 PM

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This might be helpful for some of the new guys, and maybe a refresher for the old salts. A heat gun is really not the best tool for the job. I like to get a beer a good war movie and sit down in front of the tube and do the tighten up.

http://manuals.hobbico.com/top/tighten-covering.pdf

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RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & ... - 1/8/2013 9:07 PM

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Thanks alot.   Now I read the instructions. That is supposed to be a last resort! (like asking for directions when you are driving)

From what I see posted, different folks have different standards and the initial finish quality varies.  I recently purchased the 60 size Corsair ARF and from others posting the quality has not changed significantly.  Although someone in the forum mentioned that the west coast folks seemed to have more problems. Could be the environment?

A few years ago my mustang arrived with some small wrinkles.   Although I tighten them up every now and then it always seems to have some.   I'm sure storing it in the damp cool basement and then dragging it out in the bright hit sun durring summer does not help.   Flying the occasional Winter mission may add to it.

For me the bottom line is - The covering on both top flight ARFs I own are as good or better than I could do. For that perfect scale look that will not wrinkle be prepaired to ditch the iron on coverings and go to something like glassing with a painted on finish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: raptureboy

This might be helpful for some of the new guys, and maybe a refresher for the old salts. A heat gun is really not the best tool for the job. I like to get a beer a good war movie and sit down in front of the tube and do the tighten up. http://manuals.hobbico.com/top/tighten-covering.pdf

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Ultra Sport Brotherhood #122
Ryan STA/STM Brotherhood #5

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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Warbirds and Warplanes >> RE: Top Flite '.60 size' P-51D Mustang ARF: Building & Modifications
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