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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 11/27/2008 5:51 PM   
Jeremy_BP



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Status: offline 		So I crashed pretty badly..... Into a SOFT dividing curtain in a gym. I broke off one of the knobs on the swash plate, but I still seems to work fine. Is this an issue? It's a little hard to see in the image, but one of the knobs is broken off.

Jeremy

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 11/27/2008 6:16 PM   
joizeex



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Status: offline 		not an issue, although it'll be a little off balance and might wobble. just cut the one on the other side off with some wire cutters. i'm guessing your troubles with damaging parts are happening because you're cutting the throttle a second too late. just be sure to drop that throttle stick as soon as you touch something and there won't be anything broken in the head assembly or gears.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 11/27/2008 9:32 PM   
HansV


 

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Status: offline 		I flew with a swachplate that looked exactly like this for quite some time. It was damaged either by shipping or because they stuffed a lot of parts into the box. The elevator servo was also dead

I didnt really notice any vibrations but did exactly like Joizeex suggested since vibes might be so high frequency that you will barely notice it. It flew quite well until I bend the main shaft and decided to install a new swach at the same time.

As Joizeex says - remember: Throttle down before you hit something. That will save you broken blades and parts.

/Hans.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 11/28/2008 2:01 AM   
Jeremy_BP



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Status: offline 		Thanks. I'll try cutting the throttle a little before It seems like I should. I have parts that should be here in a few days from WowHobby.

Jeremy

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 11/28/2008 2:52 AM   
HeliStyle


 

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Status: offline 		u gotta love this heli though its I still can't believe this is my fav heli

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 11/28/2008 1:06 PM   
Jeremy_BP



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Status: offline 		I really can't blame you there.

How am I supposed to replace the main gear? It looks like I should take off the battery holder, then pull out this tiny pin. Is that right?

Jeremy

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 11/28/2008 10:17 PM   
shizack


 

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Status: offline 		That's right. But it seems the pin is slightly conical, so tug it from both sides to see which way it wants to come out.

For re-insertion, it helps to mark the spokes on the gear which line up with the holes. I used a silver Sharpie and it's saved me all sorts of grief.

Now if somebody knows a trick to re-attaching c-clips to the feathering shaft...

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 11/30/2008 4:52 AM   
HansV


 

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Status: offline 		The pin is conical and can only go in and out the same way.

I usually do c-clips on a clean table with a magnet close to me lol. I don't think that there is a trick or at least I have never heard about it. I use my fingers and a small screwdriver. I usually just replace the main shaft instead of messing with the clips.

/Hans.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 11/30/2008 5:01 AM   
HansV


 

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Status: offline 		I did a MIA carbon frame upgrade this weekend. Used the standard set-up with direct drive and the longer tail. Also added the main shaft collar for stabilizing the swashplate but had to sand it down with around milimeter to make it fit.

WOW, what a difference. It hovers at the same spot for a long long time almost like in the video clip and seems to be just as responsive (or maybe even more) than the stock version. It seems to be more precise to the controls. It really flies like a much bigger heli. I don't know if it is the frame, the longer tail or the swash plate collar but I really like it.

I don't really like to build as I am more of a fly guy than a glue guy, but this was really worth it. Maybe I should try to go brushless with it since I already got the parts.

/Hans.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/1/2008 6:32 AM   
Kronium


 

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Status: offline 		HansV, let me know how many flights you get out of the tail motor with direct drive. I only get about 10 solid flights before the motor begins to fade. Ordered the flea and 2g motor for the tail, so I hope that helps. I'm still trying to figure out how to mount the motor on that MIA frame though. And yeah, the extra weight of the frame really adds stability.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/1/2008 6:02 PM   
joizeex



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Status: offline 		Hans, what's the weight with battery for the MIA version? what is the flight time difference, if any? does it take more throttle to get it to lift or to increase altitude quickly?

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/2/2008 3:04 AM   
HansV


 

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Status: offline 		Kronium, joizeex, I havn't thought about the weight difference for a second Now I have to go to Fry's to get a mini scale They are freaking expensive, but I have to know if the new upgrade adds weight and how much.

/Hans.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/2/2008 3:11 AM   
HansV


 

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Status: offline 		I only have about 5-6 flights on it and I have been a little careful about it (so surprisingly no crashes (((yet))) ). I reacts quite OK (actually really nice), but I did a comparison flight between this and a stock and found that the stock 4#3B is faster. The stock 4#3B enden up in a crash near the end after a "3D-wanna-be" flight where I ran out of talent. I havn't really noticed any significant difference in flying time, but that is because I have been too busy.

When the tail motor goes I will do a main and tail brushless upgrade. I was just too busy to get it flying so I decided to try to brushed. If I get around 10 flights on the tail motor I guess it will be pretty soon. I will keep you posted.

I also have the flea and the 2g tail motor from Wowhobbid. Kronium, please let me know if you find a way to mount it. Right now I have no idea except making a new carbon piece that fits the smaller diameter.

/Hans.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/2/2008 6:51 AM   
Kronium


 

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Status: offline 		HansV, I cut two small pieces from the MIA scraps and glued them on the insides of the tail motor mount. Unfortuneatly, I tried to drill out the scrap pieces to the 2g motor size after they were glued on. BIG mistake. I tore up the who tail section pretty good. Have a new frame on the way, and will drill the holes BEFORE I glue them on. I'll keep you posted.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/2/2008 2:51 PM   
swivel_dick


 

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Status: offline 		I have been having trouble with my tail motor on my bird... how do you know it's bad? It stops working, just goes in circles, or is just plain erratic to your inputs?

This really sucks, I put a new tail motor in last night (after rebuilding the whole back half of the heli) because I thought the one that came stock was going on me. Well, now it's worse... before - the stock tail motor was just needing alot of right cyclic on the controls to keep er straight in the air, now with a new tail motor installed all it does is goes in circles (the faster I throttle up the faster the circles it goes in) when I throttle up to get it off of the ground. I know these motors are pretty cheap but jeeeeeeeez...

The really funny thing is I am having problems with my tail on BOTH of my heli's right now... BUMMER

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/2/2008 6:45 PM   
cappyp45


 

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Status: offline 		Check to make sure that your tail rotor is seated correctly and that the gears are meshed. It is not uncommon for the tail rotor to slide outwards (mostly from a crash) causing the gears to stop meshing.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/2/2008 11:12 PM   
Jeremy_BP



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Status: offline 		Along these same lines, I've had a problem. The heli acts normal as I spin it up, and as I take off spins 180 270 degrees. As soon as it's in the air, it acts normally again, except it's nose in. I can't fly nose in, and would like to have controlled takeoffs. Any ideas?

Also, I fixed the main gear (had me down since thursday getting that stupid pin in ) and the canopy. Flies like new, except for the tail thing.

Jeremy

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/3/2008 1:02 AM   
Jeremy_BP



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Status: offline 		Tail holds fine now. On my first flight with a new main gear, my first thought was, "Wow, it's like new!" It takes off smoothly, and is a good bit quieter. Best I can figure is the old chipped gear was causing the gyro to glitch. Oh well! Works fine now!!

Jeremy

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/3/2008 3:57 AM   
AndyW


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: swivel_dick

I have been having trouble with my tail motor on my bird... how do you know it's bad? It stops working, just goes in circles, or is just plain erratic to your inputs?

This really sucks, I put a new tail motor in last night (after rebuilding the whole back half of the heli) because I thought the one that came stock was going on me. Well, now it's worse... before - the stock tail motor was just needing alot of right cyclic on the controls to keep er straight in the air, now with a new tail motor installed all it does is goes in circles (the faster I throttle up the faster the circles it goes in) when I throttle up to get it off of the ground. I know these motors are pretty cheap but jeeeeeeeez...

The really funny thing is I am having problems with my tail on BOTH of my heli's right now... BUMMER



I had this problem right out of the box. They tried but neither the vendor nor Walkera could figure it out. Here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArrO-fZC48c you can see what it was doing. Erratic tail rotor speeds as you advance the throttle. When I poked around in the TX to see if there was a problem there, the roll cyclic started to do what the tail was doing and that was the clue. At least for me, the problem was the connectors involved with the tail and aileron (roll) sticks. I hard wired these and the problem was solved. If you try that, make sure that you tie down the wiring to prevent breakage at the solder joint.

And for me too, sometimes it would be OK and then, start acting up for no reason. In fact, the reason was the poor contacts on the wiring harnesses in the Tx.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/3/2008 4:40 AM   
AndyW


 

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Status: offline 		I'm Pretty much a gear head and love the smoke and fury of engines. For the last while though, I've been having a lot of winter, indoor fun with the PalmZ and PiccoZ machines. The Picco has amazing stability given that there's no cyclic control. So I assumed that Walkera's amazing little machine would be similar. I'm no stranger to helis, DuBros were my first, the Competitors, more recently the LiteMachines bird and now I'm trying to fly indoors.

Well, the 4#3B fits the bill but I find it awfully hard to keep ahead of. I know about MIAs mods and I've applied some of them. I've flown these outdoors in too much wind though and haven't had a chance to fly indoors in a proper space yet. I may have to start a local, indoor club. In any case, I thought I'd share some of my mods.

I haven't gone over the entire thread so maybe it's been covered but one of the early problems I had, which was no doubt due to too many crashes because of the tail rotor, was the tail boom fixture to the frame. A setscrew against a carbon fibre tube is a bad idea. Especially that this little securement isn't supplemented with braces of any sort. That was the way I was going to go but after second thought, I came up with just reinforcing the ends of the carbon boom with thin, brass tubing. What you see is tubing extracted from old antennas. this chromed, brass tubing is much thinner than hobby grade brass tube and the smallest is a near perfect fit for the 4#3B's boom. Just a bit of sanding at each end allowed the tubing bits to slip on and cyano is the glue of choice.

I'm away from the shop right now but I think it was a 2.5mm drill bit that matched the OD of the antenna tube reinforcement. Will edit later if that's not right but you get the idea. Don't use tubing any larger than this because while you might be able to reinforce the frame, there's not much meat at the tail rotor end to take larger tubing

I decided to make up, what I think is a more sensible landing gear and that's pictured, along with how I secured it to the frame.

I added some springs to the swashplate to servo pushrods to take out the slop but in the end, installed a single spring under the swashplate as described in a number of posts.

I also added some extra flybar weight by wrapping very fine solder around each end. This allows me to fine tune the balance by nipping a bit off one of the ends.

While banging up the heli, the socket where the tubing sits got cracked and that was reinforced with JB Weld. Now, I can really bear down on the setscrews and really hold that boom in place right nice and solid.

In the end, I used the antenna tube for the entire tail boom. Looks spifey, all shiny and the like.

Finally, as I took things apart and re-assembled, no doubt that my ham hands were a little rough on those tiny screws so most of those were replaced with heavier ones. These are not 2-56 hobby grade, those are way too big but are actually metric screws used in watches. My dad repaired watches for a living before the digital age and I got all his stuff.

The Picco is dead nuts stable and it appears that the reason is that the flybar is set at a pronounced angle compared to the blades. Has anyone tried to modify their heli using this principle? Would this make it TOO stable ? Is there such a thing as too stable?

While bench (hand) running the system, I notices something that might be of interest. While holding the heli at the back by the boom, near the frame, if I spin up the rotor and apply full rear cyclic, I get a rolling pressure to the right. If I push the stick hard forward, I get some left rolling action. I realize that this might be just from the fact that it's being restrained, but maybe not. Might this be why and how the Picco gets its stability? This interaction is eliminated by the unusual orientation of the flybar?

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/3/2008 5:27 AM   
HansV


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kronium

HansV, I cut two small pieces from the MIA scraps and glued them on the insides of the tail motor mount. Unfortuneatly, I tried to drill out the scrap pieces to the 2g motor size after they were glued on. BIG mistake. I tore up the who tail section pretty good. Have a new frame on the way, and will drill the holes BEFORE I glue them on. I'll keep you posted.


Kronium, thanks for that tip and sorry to hear about the tail section. I havn't really had the time or energy to start looking at it, so it is still in a box on my table. I am more scared about the soldering on the PCB board. I am pretty good a glueing stuff. Had one of the first MS Hornets and my friends called me Epoxy since I constantly broke the tail boom learning to fly and in the end it got quite heavy from all the glue LOL.

/Hans.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/3/2008 6:20 AM   
HansV


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndyW

quote:

ORIGINAL: swivel_dick

I have been having trouble with my tail motor on my bird... how do you know it's bad? It stops working, just goes in circles, or is just plain erratic to your inputs?

This really sucks, I put a new tail motor in last night (after rebuilding the whole back half of the heli) because I thought the one that came stock was going on me. Well, now it's worse... before - the stock tail motor was just needing alot of right cyclic on the controls to keep er straight in the air, now with a new tail motor installed all it does is goes in circles (the faster I throttle up the faster the circles it goes in) when I throttle up to get it off of the ground. I know these motors are pretty cheap but jeeeeeeeez...

The really funny thing is I am having problems with my tail on BOTH of my heli's right now... BUMMER



I had this problem right out of the box. They tried but neither the vendor nor Walkera could figure it out. Here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArrO-fZC48c you can see what it was doing. Erratic tail rotor speeds as you advance the throttle. When I poked around in the TX to see if there was a problem there, the roll cyclic started to do what the tail was doing and that was the clue. At least for me, the problem was the connectors involved with the tail and aileron (roll) sticks. I hard wired these and the problem was solved. If you try that, make sure that you tie down the wiring to prevent breakage at the solder joint.

And for me too, sometimes it would be OK and then, start acting up for no reason. In fact, the reason was the poor contacts on the wiring harnesses in the Tx.


There is actually quite a few things that can influence the behaviour of the tail. I have spent quite some time scratching my head due to tail problems, so here is a couple of things I found that can go wrong:

If the heli spins like a crazy, there no power or close to no power going to the tail rotor. It can be an electrical problem or actually something as trivial as gear alignment due to the knight head pin or that the two "pins" on the tail rotor are not inserted into the gear. The latter can easily be checked by moving the tail rotor with one finger and applying a little friction on the tail motor gear with another. If there is a good "mechanical connection" the problem is electric. If it has worked before it is usually the connector in the RX or a bad soldering of the tail motor wires. It can also be a completely bad motor. I had that problem and re-soldered the wires and it worked. Otherwise the odds are that there is a broken wire with a loose connection. If it never worked it is probably something like Andy had with his heli. Fortunately he was cleaver enough to solve the problem himself. I would probably have returned it.

If it is not spinning around like a crazy, it can be a dying tail motor or a problem with the main motor or the main gear. A tail motor will usually die slowly and you have to give more and more right rudder. Again, it could also be a bad soldering of the wires. If it is a main motor or gear problem the rule is that the more power the main motor needs to get the rotor spinning the more torque the tail has to compensate for. That explains that the heli can flip the tail if the gear friction is not the same on the whole cycle. If there is a problem with the gear the symptoms could also be kicking out the tail when rapidly changing the throttle. The gyro and tail motor can not react that fast but will eventually catch it after 180 or something degrees. If it is a gear problem, high rotor speed might hide the symptoms and that is why it will appear to fly OK when it is in the air. For CP helis it could also be really bad pitch/throttle curves. On the 4#3 only the paddles can be adjusted so I don't think that it could be a real issue.

/Hans.


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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/3/2008 6:34 AM   
HansV


 

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Status: offline 		Andy, a lot of good stuff there. I also got tired of all the play in the swashplate so I put a rubber band around the part that goes into the slider and the tail boom pulling the swashplate down. I think that I will try to install a spring below the swashplate to keep it more filed and level.

There is actually a think such as too stable for some helis. It has something to do with the damping of the feathering shaft, but I am pretty new to that. I am not really sure if that is significant on an FP but here is a link to the response I got:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11019930&postcount=32

/Hans.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/3/2008 7:44 AM   
AndyW


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Hans,

On second thought and thanks to your response, yes, I can see that too stable can be an issue. But my 4#3B is essentially unstable. That was right out of the box. And, there were tail rotor issues but these only showed up after the first, initial, five or so flights. There's been casual mention, here and there about this particularly from the folks who went from this machine to a 4G3. I'm aware that they are two different animals but a CP 3D heli would, I think, be even less stable on purpose but there are reports that it's far more stable than this FP machine.

As mentioned, this consternation of mine stems from being able to hover and "tool around" in my living room with the Picco and decidedly NOT being able to do that with the 4#3B. The opposite of what I thought I'd be getting. After all, this machine has cyclic and the Picco doesn't. Could it be that Picco's rotor is patented and Walkera refuses to adopt and pay the royalties or something? Is it the NIH syndrome?? (Not Invented Here).

But, as it approaches 3.0 AM here, I'll have to get back to roaming the many hundreds of posts on all this wonderful stuff tomorrow. Such as, I read somewhere that one flyer trimmed off the taper from the main blades and was rewarded with a more stable machine. Another thought I have is to add some balsa to the bottom of the blades and carve them to either a flat bottom airfoil or even symmetrical. Just to see what might happen. I have spare blades.

There's an answer to this. Hey that's the fun of it, I guess.

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RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter - 12/4/2008 12:33 AM   
BlackBeast



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Status: offline 		Hi all,

I'm new to this forum. My english is not very good but just wanted to tell you I just received my 4#3b today. Ordered it from Helipal on nov. 24. Took only 7 days from Hong Kong to Quebec, Canada.

Didn't had time to fly it yet but I'll take day-off tomorrow just to try it. hehheeh

I have read all this tread and learned much tricks. Thanx all!!

_____________________________

\BlackBeast
Walkera 4#3b

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(in reply to AndyW)
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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Electric RC Helis >> Walkera Helis - Dragonfly, etc.. >> RE: WALKERA 4#3B 2.4Ghz Metal Upgraded Edition Helicopter
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