RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960

RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960
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RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/26/2008 8:09:08 PM

fritzke

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Thought you guys who dabble in rudder-only would enjoy this!
Dave

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/26/2008 11:31:48 PM

Larry Driskill

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I have had a stray dabbling thought . . .

'Could be a challenge.

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/27/2008 2:06:36 AM

Raymond LeFlyr

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Very nice! Thank you for sharing. I wonder how long it would take me to master those maneuvers.

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/27/2008 2:51:34 AM

BMatthews

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Not as long as you may think. I've been doing this for a few years now since I made my Mini Reb and it's been a total blast for me.

Model setup is important as well to go with this. You really need a dedicated model due to the peculiar CG and decalage setup compared to something with elevators. It's been written up before but the Reader's Digest version is a slightly forward CG location, some extra positive wing incidence to compensate for the CG location and lots of downthrust to hold the nose down since the decalage will try to nose the model up very strongly. It's the strong decalage combined with the extra speed from the spiral dive that lifts the model up into a loop or some other combination. The rudder rolls are really a barrel roll which is actually a sort of rolling loop if you study how it works.

All in all it's a blast. If life seems a little boring why not take up the challenge?

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Free Flighters go that extra mile........

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/27/2008 3:26:13 AM

flying poodle

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I flew rudder only once. It was not on purpose, but I was able to keep my LST in the air for the entire tank. The elevator servo was taped on, and of course the tape failed, leaving me with only rudder. I was able to turn very slowwwwly and circle the field. However, when the engine quite, for some reason the airplane ended up inverted. It was gliding fine, and I still had control, but it was a bit disorienting and I put it in a tree. Still no damage.

Raymond:

Our weapon is Surprise. Fear and Surprise. Our two weapons are Fear and Surprise....and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope! OUR THREE WEAPONS are........

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/27/2008 12:23:37 PM

GrahamC

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BMatthews

All in all it's a blast. If life seems a little boring why not take up the challenge?

Agreed and I am itching to get another one flying as it has been a couple of years since my last one.

Some of the locals ask why I just don't bother with elevator and/or ailerons - after all small recievers and servos are so cheap that it just doesn't make sense not to.

I try to explain, it's the challenge you see, without challenging your way of thinking or doing something you will only stagnate and besides it's fun to try something a bit different now and again. They still dont' get it - can't see it, don't understand it, looks too hard.

I gotta pick some quick and easy design and have at it. Someone recently posted a copy of the plans and original article for Coon's (?) Guided Mite. Might be the one although there are so many neat, old and simple designs.

Thanks for posting the "RO Aerobatic Schedule". I had seen it before but that was quite some time ago.

cheers, Graham in Ottawa

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/27/2008 7:51:49 PM

Raymond LeFlyr

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Bruce,

I did fly a real RO model a few times last year. Even got to loop and roll it in front of the Crew at one of Rog's events. But those maneuvers weren't executed with more skill than luck. I later stuck an elevator on the back but all the positive wing incidence and downthrust really didn't help it fly very well. It was a Littlest Stick by the way.

However, I thought then and still ponder what a similar model with electric power would be like. Because my electric Wee Stick is a treat to fly (RME) and I would think a real good throttle capability would add an extra dimension to the RO experience - without having to fly in the clouds to prevent figure nines.

This would allow me the confidence to build one or more of the very interesting little RO models from "the Silver Years" (the '50s and '60s to my way of thinking. The "Golden Years" were pre-war.) but maybe still enjoy the RO experience but with a little touch of insurance at my left thumb.

Frankly, I see little advantage to being a RO purist. There I've done stuck my foot in my mouth again. Somehow this tendnecy of mine to expose myself to ridicule must have its roots in my mis-spent youth and is probably my mother's fault. Thanks Mom.

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/28/2008 2:30:40 AM

BMatthews

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A RO purist? No need for that. I'm not one either. But to be able to come out and shake out my own personal cobwebs with a few rounds of RO flying is definetly part of my repetoire from now on.

Raymond, if the LS wasn't looping tight enough from a spiral or rolling well the key is to add even more incidence to the wing so your decalage angle goes up. Then move the CG a bit forward so it still glides and add in a big cheeze wedge worth of downthrust to counter the new desire to climb. Get it all crossed up like this and you've got a bucket full of giggles. And that's one of the big keys to success with RO. You need to set it up all wrong by elevator thinking standards to get it to work well.

< Message edited by BMatthews -- 5/28/2008 2:31:08 AM >

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/28/2008 3:37:04 AM

Mad Man Marko-RCU

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I don't know what a R/O Purist is but he/she must have a fair amount of fun while flying. I have a couple of electric powered R/O models and they are great to fly. The electric motor with the VR/CS allowed speed control gives that dependable engine runs. I have a scratched Midwest little Esquire with a Himaxx 2808 980 and it is a very powerful combination. Flys well and has good stunting ability. Also have a scratched Consolidated Li'l Spirit with an E-Flite Park 370. Another real good flyer but not quite as aerobatic. If I was to build another Lil Spirit I would reduce the dihedral as this one is a little "Dutch Rolly" and that can sneak up and get you. I have an Early RC models Esquire just about done that will also be Rudder and Motor.

I also have a Gnome and a Nomad (ted Strader designs) with Cox Pee Wee 020's on both and Ace Pulse Commander RO sets. These are fun to fly but just cruise around. A Jr Falcon is in the works with a hot 049 and should do some real rudder only stunting. When I was back in school in the early seventies I had a Dicks Dream with Tee Dee 020 and it always flew good and would loop and roll. Then on day it was a little too windy and away she went. Still have the transmitter from that one.

Peace

Mark O

< Message edited by Mad Man Marko-RCU -- 5/28/2008 3:39:05 AM >

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/28/2008 4:32:53 AM

BMatthews

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Just a thought for anyone wanting to do an electric powered RO model. Don't be tempted to use a low Kv or gear drive setup that uses a large prop. Go for a higher revving setup so it won't act so much like a brake on the spiral dive to build speed.

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Free Flighters go that extra mile........

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/28/2008 6:25:00 PM

Raymond LeFlyr

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Bruce,

I just love it when modellers talk technical. Sadly there may be some out there in RO-land who don't know that a reasonable "cheese wedge" would provide an angle of, say, 6 to 8 degrees. I'm always glad to share my vast store of knowledge.

And just to share some more; my really, really good flying (that's "flying" not 3-D-ing) electric Wee Stick does best with a 7x6 APC prop. But I agree that I wouldn't want more 'disc' than that on a 1/2A-ish conversion.

MMM,

I have a set of the Nomad plans that I shake out every year or two and consider spending the week or two that it would take me (at my standard building rate) to produce a serviceable model. In fact I have a very nice Pee Wee engine that I asked Tim to color for me with just that project in mind. I have no excuse for not having followed up.

To paraphrase an old soap commercial; "don't you appreciate Early R/C, don't you wish everyone did?"

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RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/28/2008 7:35:01 PM

fritzke

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Way back when, in the last couple of years of AMA R/O competition (early 70's??), motor control was allowed.
The engines had serious up-thrust (like, 10 degrees) and the planes were trimmed to fly level
at 'mid' throttle, and loop on 'high'. A plane with that setup, lots of dihedral and a big rudder
could really go nuts, or so I have heard anyway!
Dave

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Post #: 12

RE: RO Stunting diagram, Cal Smith 1960 - 5/28/2008 11:07:08 PM

Raymond LeFlyr

Posts: 1830
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Now that you mention it I do recall a construction article that tickled my fancy back then. The model was larger than 1/2A - maybe .19 - maybe larger - but the designer had shown several iterations before he got the combination right. I think he was from D.C. or Baltimore. Can't remember the name of the design though. Anyway, it had throttle control as well as rudder. Didn't they have a name for RM control? Like "advanced RO" or "RO plus"? IN any case I don't recall UPthrust but it makes sense if you want that tight loop.

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