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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> flying off of water
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flying off of water - 5/29/2008 5:30:20 PM   
rexracer


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 1/23/2006
From: New Milford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		I've looked for info, and searched here...nothing. I'm looking for info on float flying. I'm building a float plane, and obviously I want to be able to fly it off of water. My question is how does the AMA veiw this. My club has a grass field, so if I want to fly off water, I'll have to find another place. Will the AMA insurance cover me? There is a river near our flying field...we actually fly over it to some extent. Across the river from our field is a public boat launch. If I fly from there, and use the same airspace as our feild, am I covered? There is a large lake nearby, and a friend with a boat want's to take me and the plane out to fly off the lake. How would the AMA view this? Short of starting a whole new club just for float flying, what are my options?
Thanks,
Randy

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RE: flying off of water - 5/29/2008 6:50:17 PM   
Silent-AV8R



Posts: 1781
Joined: 3/16/2004
From: SOCAL, CA, USA
Status: offline 		AMA insurance covers you no matter where you fly as long as you have permission to fly there or are not otherwise prohibited from being there and are flying in accordance with the Safety Code.

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RE: flying off of water - 5/29/2008 7:09:03 PM   
rexracer


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 1/23/2006
From: New Milford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		It's been a while since I read through the rules and regs, but I thought you had to fly at an AMA chartered club site?

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RE: flying off of water - 5/29/2008 8:21:51 PM   
r2champion



Posts: 355
Joined: 9/5/2006
From: Mayking, KY, USA
Status: offline 		Not everyone has the luxury of living near an AMA chartered club. It is over an hours drive to the closest where I live. However, we have a club and individual AMA insurance. I do have permission to fly there so I would be covered the same as you at the lake, as long as you have permission.

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RE: flying off of water - 5/29/2008 8:23:56 PM   
bkdavy



Posts: 1465
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: FrederickMD, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rexracer

It's been a while since I read through the rules and regs, but I thought you had to fly at an AMA chartered club site?


Silent-AV8R is correct. The Safety Code does not require you be at a chartered club. For the AMA insurance to cover you, you must be flying IAW the safety code. The code also doesn't specify permission to fly, but if you don't have permission, you're trespassing, and that will nullify the insurance coverage (an illegal act).

The Safety Code does restrict flying within 3 miles of a chartered club field without a frequency sharing agreement. Since you're a member of the nearby club, the club should work with the local authorities to determine conditions for use of the area near the boat ramp as a possible site. I know that KCRC in Knoxville, TN has just such an arrangement for use of Melton Hill Reservoir.

Brad

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RE: flying off of water - 5/30/2008 5:36:22 PM   
rexracer


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 1/23/2006
From: New Milford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I wouldn't be tresspassing at the lake. It's a "public" lake that can be accessed through many state and town parks, and power boats are allowed. Does getting permission still apply? There are many coves that can be found without anybody using the space, so I would be able to fly safely over nothing but empty water and trees.

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RE: flying off of water - 5/30/2008 7:21:43 PM   
bkdavy



Posts: 1465
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: FrederickMD, USA
Status: offline 		Its a "public lake" means its owned by the public. There is no doubt some representative of the public (parks commission, town or county council, etc) that controls the use and access thereto.

Now you have to make your own decision regarding "can you safely fly there". The AMA safety code describes that there should be a clear flight line with no people in the flight area. Depending on how busy the lake is, are you willing to put those boaters at risk?

One approach would be to make arrangements with whatever authority controls the lake and see if they would allow you (or the club) to establish a flight area on specific days or times when the lake isn't busy. If there are secluded areas of the lake that aren't busy, it probably wouldn't be hard to come to an agreement with the proper authorities over the conditions that would apply to such use.

If they say OK, then you're in good shape, and probably wouldn't have any problems with the AMA. If they say no and you still fly, you'll be assuming all the risk, and you're insurance probably won't cover you. If you never ask, its anybody's guess, but mine would be you're still assuming all the risk.

Brad

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RE: flying off of water - 5/31/2008 2:26:28 PM   
rexracer


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 1/23/2006
From: New Milford, CT, USA
Status: offline 		I think the lake is actually "owned" by the power company. It's 12 miles long and borders 5 different towns. It's surrounded by many public parks with access, and many private homes with access. I doubt I would be able to fly on weekends, due to high boat traffic, but there are areas of the lake that border only wildeerness...mostly state forest, I think, and those areas don't get trafic during the week. Weekends have gotten so bad that I've been told you can't even ski anymore. Personally, i think they ought to limit out of staters.

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RE: flying off of water - 5/31/2008 3:20:39 PM   
Rufcut


 

Posts: 166
Joined: 4/19/2004
From: Ignacio, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I want to try float flying also and I plan to do it on the same lake I use for ski flying in the winter. If boaters are anything like snowmobilers, you'll need to remember that our little models generate a lot of curiosity. First thing you know, there will be dozens of spectators and they don't even realize when they're in the way. Fortunately, this lake doesn't attract a lot of skiers because the water is too cold but there are a fair number of people fishing. I plan to try on an early weekday morning to minimize the number of people that might be attracted to my previously "deserted" spot. I also have thought about putting out a couple buoy's to help block out the area. Every time I run into someone hunting, fishing, camping,or hiking where I want to hunt, fish, camp, or hike I think they should limit out-of-staters too.
Good Luck and fly safe,

Rufcut

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RE: flying off of water - 6/4/2008 2:27:13 PM   
khodges


 

Posts: 5091
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: newton, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rufcut

If boaters are anything like snowmobilers, you'll need to remember that our little models generate a lot of curiosity. First thing you know, there will be dozens of spectators and they don't even realize when they're in the way. Fortunately, this lake doesn't attract a lot of skiers because the water is too cold but there are a fair number of people fishing. I plan to try on an early weekday morning to minimize the number of people that might be attracted to my previously "deserted" spot. I also have thought about putting out a couple buoy's to help block out the area. Every time I run into someone hunting, fishing, camping,or hiking where I want to hunt, fish, camp, or hike I think they should limit out-of-staters too.
Good Luck and fly safe,

Rufcut


Our club treasurer lives on our local lake, and we have his "back yard" listed as a secondary club field, so our charter is good for the lake site also. Tha takes care of whatever issues AMA might have. The lake itself is public access, although the water levels are controlled by the power company, and they have the right to restrict usage when and if necessary. Usually, a lake administered this way will have roped off or bouyed off restricted areas and posted signs stating the restrictions, both in the restricted area and at boating access areas. if you want to fly at a public access lake, you have as much right as the boaters to be there.

Like stated above, though, our models tend to draw a crowd. When we float fly, it's generally on a midweek evening from about 5pm til dark, so boat traffic is usually lighter, but it seems like everyone out there wants to stop and watch, which is fine, but they don't realize that they are usually "parking" on our "runway" so it can be dicey when you want to land. We keep a compressed air horn to get their attention, and try to wave them away when we want to land. otherwise, the only way to get the message across is to buzz them, which is unsafe and inappropriate, especially when you consider we're flying 1/4 scale stuff at times.

You can put out bouys if you want, but that depends on the boaters being attentive and courteous and paying attention to them. That's difficult enough for most, who don't even pay much attention to navigational stuff like shoal and no-wake zones, and I doubt that whatever lake patrols are there would tend to enforce yours unless they are pretty strict with the others. With my luck, I'd probably hit my bouy with my plane .

The other consideration for float flying is to have some type of "airplane retreival device" for when you botch the takeoff or landing or have a deadstick and the plane is stranded out in the middle. A friend with a boat or PWC is great to have, and they can even stay out to shoo off well-meaning spectators who just happen to anchor where you need to land.

Good luck and have fun.

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< Message edited by khodges -- 6/4/2008 2:31:40 PM >

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