Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Search This Thread

Printable Version

All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel

Page: [1]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/8/2003 9:15 PM

John Wells

Posts: 842
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 3/16/2010
From: Overland Park, KS, USA
Status: offline

I was wondering if adding a tad bit of gasoline to glow fuel would help a 4 stroke engine retain heat between combustion strokes. I have several gallons of 5% glow fuel and was wondering if there's anything I could do besides buying some nitro to add to the 5% mix, or buying different fuel?

Thanks,

JW

Hide Signatures

Post #: 1

NOOOOOOOOOO - 5/10/2003 1:16 AM

tylerin2000

Posts: 10
Score: 100
Joined: 5/9/2003
Last Login: 6/9/2005
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Status: offline

I assume you like your face the way it is. Therefore I SERIOUSLY recommend NOT putting ANY quantity of gasoline in a glow ignition engine. It MAY work in a very small percentage, but gasoline has a lower flash point than methanol and will preignite like crazy. Plus I don't know how gasoline mixes with methanol; i.e. what chemical reactions may occur. Nothing may appear to have happened until you try to use the fuel, then all bets are off. Stay safe ok buddy?

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 2

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/10/2003 1:22 AM

PigMan Buggerus

Posts: 827
Score: 100
Joined: 11/26/2002
Last Login: 9/9/2008
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline

Keep it safe, buy some Nitroil from Klotz. 78% Nitro Methane, 22% all synthetic oil. It should give you the results your looking for.

[url]www.klotzlube.com[/url]

_____________________________

The Voice of the Angry!
http://www.voxirati.com

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 3

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/10/2003 2:26 AM

John Wells

Posts: 842
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 3/16/2010
From: Overland Park, KS, USA
Status: offline

OOOOOOOOOOOkkkkkkk !!

It was just an idea.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 4

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/10/2003 3:53 AM

Homebrewer

Posts: 1336
Score: 100
Joined: 12/29/2001
Last Login: 3/12/2010
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Status: offline

Adding up to 3% acetone will work as well on low nitro.

Your best bet is to use higher nitro fuel and the hottest plug you can find (OS F is undisputablely best plug for 4 stroke).

Another thing you can do is find some 15 or 20% nitro and mix them 50/50 with your low nitro stuff. I mix fuel types and brands all of the time. Most recently I decided to mix Coolpower 15% with Sig fuel. The result is a fuel containing 18.5% oil, 15% nitro, and about 75% castor/25% synthetic.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 5

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/10/2003 8:32 AM

downunder-RCU

Posts: 1125
Score: 100
Joined: 12/27/2001
Last Login: 9/5/2003
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Status: offline

Gasoline was a common additive (up to about 10% I think) used in glow fuel back in the days of CL team racing to extend the range. The downside was a somewhat hotter running engine because gasoline has far less internal cooling capacity than methanol. Flash point is of no consequence (the flash point for methanol is 61F, acetone is 0F, ether is -40, gasoline -45F) but resistance to detonation is. Gas will tolerate a higher compression than nitro.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 6

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/10/2003 10:51 AM

NM2K

Posts: 9479
Score: 100
Joined: 1/31/2002
Last Login: 3/17/2010
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline

Which brand of four-stroke glow engine is having difficulty utilizing 5% nitro glow fuel?

My little OS .20 four-stroke loves 5% nitro fuel. It easily hand starts, is outstandingly reliable at idle and all other speeds above.

I use mostly OS Type-F glowplugs, Enya #3 or McCoy four-stroke plugs on engines with a short reach requirement. No problems with any of them.

The latest trend in utilizing high nitro fuel in four-strokes has caused some of the manufacturers to change their engines to accomodate such fuel. Saito and YS come immediately to mind. Is your engine one of these brands?

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 7

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/10/2003 4:04 PM

John Wells

Posts: 842
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 3/16/2010
From: Overland Park, KS, USA
Status: offline

I haven't tried it yet, but I just got a Saito 91. All of the "experts" that give free advise say I need to use at least 10% nitro. I'm going to try 5% nitro as soon as I can get the engine installation finished.

JW

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 8

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/10/2003 6:42 PM

PigMan Buggerus

Posts: 827
Score: 100
Joined: 11/26/2002
Last Login: 9/9/2008
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline

I bet your Saito 91 will run fine on 5%. You just won't be getting the maximum performance out of the engine. I have a Saito 100, I broke it in using 15% nitro fuel, 20% all synthetic oil. It would turn an APC 15x6 at about 9400. After the first gallon I switched to 30% nitro and 20% all synthetic, and it turned the same prop at 9950 RPMs. So go ahead and give the 5% a try, if you find you need more power, bump the nitro up a bit. Saitos love the Nitro for Maximum power.

_____________________________

The Voice of the Angry!
http://www.voxirati.com

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 9

Gasoline can be used - 5/13/2003 8:14 AM

theredcad

Posts: 39
Score: 100
Joined: 2/4/2002
Last Login: 3/9/2010
From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Status: offline

Gasoline was often added to glow fuel in the old days and I sometimes substitute the acetone for gasoline when I'm out of acetone. I use about 1 to 3 %. Sometimes I will make a winter brew and add a dash of ether to aid cold stars too.
However I think your engine will run just fine on 5% . I have actually had better results with all around usability with 10% and seen some idle problems occur with too much nitro.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 10

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/13/2003 4:23 PM

John Wells

Posts: 842
Score: 100
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 3/16/2010
From: Overland Park, KS, USA
Status: offline

So, perhaps mixing a small amount isn't as suicidal as some think. I tried the 5% and it runs fine. It leaves me wondering what 30% nitro would do for the performance. Thanks.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 11

Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 5/13/2003 8:06 PM

PigMan Buggerus

Posts: 827
Score: 100
Joined: 11/26/2002
Last Login: 9/9/2008
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline

If your 91 is anything like my 100, the 30% makes a big improvment. The transition to full speed with large props is considerably better, much less spool up. You will also see higher top end RPM's. After the first gallon for break in, I only run 30% in my Saitos.

_____________________________

The Voice of the Angry!
http://www.voxirati.com

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 12

RE: Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 11/8/2009 12:30 PM

mrflyer61

Posts: 4
Score: 100
Joined: 11/8/2009
Last Login: 2/13/2010
From: 1335 Cheshiri Lane, MD, USA
Status: offline

Last month, its now November, or perhpas the month before there was an old timer article in ama about mixing gasoline with glow fuels. the article said that they used to do it all the time and there was no mention of safety. In fact, said that your nitro engine would work on 100 % gasoline if you keep the glow plug lit. I think it reccomended up to 25% with no ill effects and up to 50% without having to power the glo plug in a 4 stroke.

the other problem is compatibility of the fuel delivery system. ???

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 13

RE: Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 11/12/2009 2:16 PM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 9092
Score: 105
Joined: 1/21/2002
Last Login: 3/16/2010
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Wells

So, perhaps mixing a small amount isn't as suicidal as some think. I tried the 5% and it runs fine. It leaves me wondering what 30% nitro would do for the performance. Thanks.

quote:

So, perhaps mixing a small amount isn't as suicidal as some think.

Adding a large amount isn't sucidal. There are some experminting using pure gasoline with heated glow plugs. Also mostly gasoline with some methanol to get some reaction with the glow plug.

_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 14

RE: Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 11/12/2009 5:31 PM

jeffie8696

Posts: 2555
Score: 110
Joined: 5/10/2007
Last Login: 3/16/2010
From: Muscatine, IA, USA
Status: online

I have done some limited testing using E85 and 20% castor. So far I have not seen any reaction with the silicone fuel lines and the fuel works fine in glow engines except the need for a very hot plug. I think the best compromise so far has been mixing 50/50 with regular glow fuel . I have seen very little drop in performance when doing so. Economics will dictate. So far E85 is only $2.00 a gallon.

_____________________________

Club Saito Member 677

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)

Post #: 15

RE: Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 11/23/2009 7:12 AM

50+AirYears

Posts: 1254
Score: 105
Joined: 7/29/2004
Last Login: 3/12/2010
From: Lorain, OH, USA
Status: offline

Back in the late 50s or early 60s, Flying Models had an article from Maynard Hill and his efforts to set an endurance record. The article, IIRC, recorded the effects of several different percentages of gasoline in the fuel he was using. I believe after a certain level, he recorded a slight reduction in power (rpm drop with the size prop he was using) and the engine ran a bit hotter, but he did get the economy increase he was looking for.
Also, some years ago, our club got a local manufacturer of a fuel brand to give a little talk on fuel. After the meeting, I asked him about adding gas to the fuel to get me a bit more endurance while using an old Fox .59 in SAM RC Texaco. He approve of the idea, and had some suggestions about oil content, nitro percentage, and such

Hide Signatures

(in reply to jeffie8696)

Post #: 16

RE: Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 1/1/2010 2:20 AM

Carpilot

Posts: 109
Score: 100
Joined: 9/13/2008
Last Login: 3/16/2010
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Wells

I was wondering if adding a tad bit of gasoline to glow fuel would help a 4 stroke engine retain heat between combustion strokes. I have several gallons of 5% glow fuel and was wondering if there's anything I could do besides buying some nitro to add to the 5% mix, or buying different fuel?

Thanks,

JW

I heard this and tried it once some time ago, it didn't seem like the gasoline mixed very well at all with methanol and nitromethane. IMO it was a waste.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to John Wells)

Post #: 17

RE: Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel - 1/2/2010 2:04 AM

balsaeater

Posts: 275
Score: 100
Joined: 5/20/2005
Last Login: 3/8/2010
From: p, ANDORRA
Status: offline

I have heard there can be issues to make gasoline (petrol benzine ) mix with Methanol and Nitromethane if the temperatues are low

I dont know is this to do with the types of oil as castor oil it seems can fall out of suspension in low temperatures even in ordinary glow fuel never mind mixxing with gasoline issues

The Lubrication oil that Methanol and Ethanol use is different than the lubricating oi that mixxes with Gasoline.

Best I can tell the synthetic oils suitable for Methanol and Ethanol will mix fairly well with gasoline if the amount of gasoline is low such as less than 5% of the fuel content

Best I can tell synthethic oil for gasoline wont mix with Methanol or Ethanol period
This explains why the much cheaper synthetic oil for petrol wont work for our glow fuel

Best I can gather if you put two stroke synthetic mix gasoline into two stroke mix glow fuel the gasoline synthethic oil will be inclined to fall out of the mix

Best I can tell low amount of gasoline mix OK with model nitro fuels

Where the real issue can start is if there is water in the fuel.Methanol and Ethanol soak up water very quickly from the air .
Gasoline and water dont mix period .
A glow motor can often tolerate ~5% or more water in the fuel once you can get the motor started as the water tends to block the glow plug in the starting up
Adding water to methanol fuels is method done to keep engine cooler in hot weather with bad cowling cooling solutions .Water in the glow fuel tends to show up streaks of fine lines in the fuel when viewed against the sun light. The water mixxes fairly well with Methanol and Ethanol

Gasoline fuel will often not run if there is even less than ~1% water in the fuel as it tends to collect in the sump of the carb system or in sharp corners or pockets in the fuel line .Water in gasoline tends to collect at the bottom of the tank where the clunk collects the fuel as water falls out of suspension in gasoline as it just wont mix easily

Bear in mind that gasoline burns very much hotter than Methanol or Ethanol and the results can be bad for a standard glow motor if there is a high gasoline content
The cooling fins on glow motors are much smaller than on gasoline motors and so getting enough cooling is the biggest issue if your trying to use a high gasoline content fuel

Also to consider is that methanol and Ethanol fuels are high octanes tpicaly ~105 octane or higher
Many gasolines are low octanes 90 or 95 or 98
Glow motors are high compression for high octane fuels .Gasoline motors are lowwer commpression for lowwer octane fuels .
With too much gasoline in the fuel the octane of the fuel will drop and then there is a risk to be in the ping zone or knock zone which can reduce the life of the motor
No dought about it the more Gasoline in the mix the further the range and the cheaper the costs but gasoline has ~20% less power in its fuel so expect a power drop of about ~20%
You might get nearly the same extra range in fuel if you ran the engine at 20% less power

After that I have no info to go on so that where other fuel experts come in

Balsaeater

< Message edited by balsaeater -- 1/2/2010 2:28 AM >

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Carpilot)

Post #: 18

Page: [1]

All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Mixing gasoline with Glow Fuel
Page: [1]

Jump to:

Google

Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP! : : FORUM RULES

© 2001 - 2007 24-7 RC, LLC, all rights reserved.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America

1.188RCU1