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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued
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Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/5/2008 5:43 PM   
KC36330


 

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Due to Nitromethane limitations Morgan fuel has temporally discontinued production of the 30% Coolpower High Performance Heli fuel, if it's your preferred fuel you should stock up if you can find it.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/5/2008 10:25 PM   
XJet


 

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Some folks (including myself) have been warning about the looming Nitro shortages (and obvious price rises that accompany such things) for some time now.

Mind you, I suspect a lot of heli-engines are breathing a sigh of relief over that news :-)

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/5/2008 11:00 PM   
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I myself try not to use high nitro preferably zero in my planes as it costs a lot in Europe
But realy the Nitromethane is made from natural gas and too my knowledge there is no shortage of this gas product

the last USA shortage was when the nitromethane manufacturing plant blew up and so there was a good reason for the shortage

This time for the USA to be short of nitro makes no sense except this is some new way to gouge the customers for more money on the back of high oil prices

The rest of the nitromethane best I can tell comes from China and there seems to be some makey up nonsense story that the Chinese stopped production for the Olympic games as the factory is near to Bejing (Peking ) so i suspect yet again another gouging operation to the non USA world supply

lucky I use high compression motors that can use no nitro or 5% nitromethane

Anybody know good cheap sources for nitroETHANE reputed to be nearly as good as nitromethane and sopposed to be much cheaper

The worst of this is the local hobby shop LHS will get it in the neck for these price hikes when really its nothing to do with them as they are just the last link in the pipe line and the blame is with the manufactuers who cut supply to hike prices up


Best I can tell is that nitromethane costs marginaly more to make than methanol ~$1 a USA gallon also made from natural gas with a similar process so even being generous if it costs $2 a USA gallon of nitromethane to make
Then how does it get to ~$15 a USA gallon with a 55 USA gallon drum and ~$50 a USA gallon when it is a single gallon

Here in Europe we can easly pay a lot more than $100 a USA Gallon for nitro methane so we run high compression motors that dont need such high nitro

Balsaeater

< Message edited by balsaeater -- 6/5/2008 11:46 PM >


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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/5/2008 11:42 PM   
KC36330


 

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there have been plenty of rumors about this with some people even saying they called the fuel manufactures and they reported it wasn't a problem, but i spoke to the owner of Morgan face to face this morning on this.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/6/2008 1:18 AM   
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I still have access to NitroMethane by the gallon so it won't be a problem to just juice up my fuel a tad. Also, 45% Byrons is still available at my LHS so that's another option as I can blend up to 30%.

I have also noticed that Wildcat CY blend is still available as is Magnum 30% at the LHS.

< Message edited by Jezmo -- 6/6/2008 1:19 AM >


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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/9/2008 6:59 PM   
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Wildcat Fuels tells me they have no worries.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/9/2008 9:37 PM   
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I suspect myself that the cool power high nitro fuels which make tuning engines more easier were sold at very much lowwer prices as a market loss leader
Then when the word goes around that coolpower fuel is so good and everybody wants it they whip out the high nitro plug the low nitro make more profit and the guys eventualy find it is the same fuel as everbody else but memory retension of the club guys is low so coolpower will get higher Que dos for a few months longer than it deserves
I forget the marketing term to cover this practice but it was something along the lines of baby soother withdrawal marketing practices
Thats my wild assed guess as the so called fuel experts at clubs I seen it used at still haven't understood high nitro = easier wider band tuning and any high nitro fuel will make everything including clapped out motors run faster and tune more easier
I am glad I do 80% electric so I don't have to listen to these so called glow experts rant about X fuel versus Y fuel so much
I just mostly buy the ingredients and mix my own to suit me and brand names havent been an issue at ingredients so much as prices



Balsaeater

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/9/2008 10:58 PM   
KC36330


 

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Was that English?

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/10/2008 1:32 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: balsaeater

Nitromethane is made from natural gas and too my knowledge there is no shortage of this gas product

The last USA shortage was when the nitromethane manufacturing plant blew up and so there was a good reason for the shortage

This time for the USA to be short of nitro makes no sense except this is some new way to gouge the customers for more money on the back of high oil prices

Balsaeater


Two things lead to this. If my memory serve me right, yes, here in the states some years back a one plant blew up and was never replaced and another suffered from the Chinese "dumping" product on us below cost, and that company sued to stop it in our courts but political pressures wouldn’t let the courts intervene, so that plant quit making it. Some time later with a near monopoly in nitro, it's time to squeeze the Americans like just about every other country is doing. Even though there is no shortage, mostly foreign entities have managed to infiltrate our futures markets and drive up largely imported resources like oil and copper. Another tactic is to create a shortage like the Chinese-nitromethane or the South African-rhodium shortage, an element used in catalytic converters, mirrors and yes our beloved glow plugs. http://www.kitco.com/charts/rhodium.html There are plenty more examples of market corruption but these are perhaps the ones that us RC’s are most familiar with.

I’m so fed-up with countries doing this to us and the present administration does NOTHING. It’s time to treat them the same, “tit for tat” otherwise the world won’t respect us. No one respects weakness. There are plenty of “leverage tools” we can use on countries that are looking to take advantage of us.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/10/2008 1:41 AM   
KC36330


 

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Dude, it's not politics, it's the Olympics that has put a stop production on Nitro till they are over..........

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/10/2008 1:47 AM   
freakingfast


 

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Ya think the price will stay near the same not on your life.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/10/2008 2:28 AM   
XJet


 

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It looks as if the Chinese olympics are really screwing up many aspects of the model industry.

Not only have they banned the export (by air) of Lipos but I hear that quite a few of the small companies which were making ARFs have been shut down and diverted to manufacture Olympic souvenirs

By the time the Olympics are over, we'll just be sitting around twiddling our thumbs rather than flying me thinks ;-)

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/10/2008 5:25 AM   
KC36330


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: XJet

By the time the Olympics are over, we'll just be sitting around twiddling our thumbs rather than flying me thinks ;-)


I've got 2 cases of Coolpower 30% and 70 gallons of Jet A, I'll be twiddling my thumbs around the sticks of my PCM 10 with or without the Olympics

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/11/2008 12:42 AM   
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The nitro supply problem is multi facited.
Increasing worldwide demand (massive increase in demand)
Lack of US manufacturing capability
China's governmental interference with shipping/ olympics etc
Chinese price gouging due to situation
Cost of input materials, energy to manufacture and drums to put it in.
Cost of shipping and time delay
and lets not forget our very own Dept of Homeland Security placing it on the COI list as a theft security threat.

Remember that rc fuels and nitro drag racing is only a small percentage of world wide demand. Solvents, inks, chemical intermediaries, organics, synthetic poylmers, and medicine manufacturing are the big consumers of nitro. Breakthroughs in manufacturing technology have occured that take nitromethane as part of the process, this has been one big driving factor of tightened supply and higher prices.


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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/11/2008 6:40 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

Was that English?


Sounded like Greek to me? Something about soothing babies I think.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/11/2008 6:42 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

Dude, it's not politics, it's the Olympics that has put a stop production on Nitro till they are over..........


If it's the Olympics in a communist country, which orders companies to stop everything to produce products for the Olympics, then it is politics.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/11/2008 6:44 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

Lack of US manufacturing capability


There are manufactures of nitro in the US. The major one announced last year that they would no longer make racing fuel. I have no idea if that includes hobby fuels.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/11/2008 8:02 PM   
Fuelman


 

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quote:

There are manufactures of nitro in the US. The major one announced last year that they would no longer make racing fuel. I have no idea if that includes hobby fuels.



There is only one, that is the Angus company which is now owned by Dow.


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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/11/2008 8:10 PM   
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Hey Brian, you know where I stand, 5% or 10% is enough for any engine.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/11/2008 9:46 PM   
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Since the announcement of no cool power, I have done a small bit of research on the nitro situation here in the us. Angus DOES still produce Nitromethane for hobby purposes. They are no longer selling Nitro (NM) to the NHRA due to inconsistant handling practices at the user end. Apparently there were some teams that were handling the fuel in an unsafe manner. To give you an idea of the potential energy in NM. . .a 5 gallon can has enough energy to produce a fatal blast radius of 42 feet, while carrying enough energy to cause injury and destroy property within a 316 foot radius. The company in good conscience would not sell to teams that were handling fuel in a haphazard fashion. In order to purchase directly from angus, there is an application process that basically ensures that you understand what you are getting yourself into by handling this chemical. You basically have to know what makes it blow up under normal circumstances, what things will sensitize it, or make unstable, and what things will make it more stable (in our case methanol) There was a case made back in 1993 I believe where Angus attempted to maintain a more cocmpetitive position in the marketplace. It protested the fact that the chinese were able to sell nitromethane at a price that was "below the fair market price" in this country. In China many prisoners, political and others, are used basically as slave laborers to produce many of the products china exports. Their labor costs are dramatically lower than ours, and hence the ability to market products at very low levels. I have also found that China's main reason for the lack of nitro production (along with lack of production in most other industry there) is to decrease the amount of air pollution in light of the olympics, and need for clean air for the games to be fair. Beijing, has about the worst air quality in the world. It makes Los Angeles' worst day look like you are in an unpopulated rural area of this country. From what I understand (from people whom have visited there) your clothes actually get dirty just from being there. Asthmatics should stay far far away from Beijing, you WILL be in the hospital in short order. China is trying to put on it's best face for the world to see during the Olympics. I typically hate politics, but I feel this is just wrong. If their business is so nasty that it destroys air quality to the point you can't run from here to there, then they do not deserve to have the olympics. We as consumers should not support slave labor, even if it is in a country where things are "legal" China doesn't care about the product it releases, countless pets have died from their poor quality pet food, children are getting sick from lead paint, they are destroying our atmosphere, all in the name of money. We, the citizens of this planet are buying into it. Everything must be cheaper. Economics say, and always have said that prices will balance out with demand. If we had supported our American company from the beginning, this never would have been an issue. There would be more companies here producing nitro, and more money in our economy by employing people here in the U.S. Part of this also means that yes, while we all want to make bigger paychecks, we need to learn to take more pride in our work, and not be quite so concerned with how much we make, but with the job we do, to ensure that we always have our jobs before they are farmed out to some country that cares nothing about it's customers, ethics, or it's people. Imagine how many Chinese people are dying because the air is so unhealthy. Yet we support that country by buying chinese.

Sorry for the rant, I typically don't get into political matters much, I'd rather not be "bogged down by the small s**t" but this is an issue that really does affect all of us in this world. I'm no hardcore "greenie" by any means, I love race cars, ride motocross, I believe lawnmowers and weedwackers should be two-stroke gas powered. There must however be a balance between things consumed, and things produced (from a natural resource perspective). How much are we REALLY paying for these chinese products. The air over China doesn't just stay in china, it's our air too. If they trash it so badly that they can't have a sporting event. . . how bad is it going to be for us in 10 years, after their industry continues to grow without some mechanisms in place to ensure that they are doing their part (on a global scale) in "good housekeeping"

As much as I like cool power, I don't think I'll buy any more following this. I will support those fuel companies that buy from a source OTHER than China that has more ethical business practices. The only way this world will change for the better is if we all put our voices (money) together and speak up.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/11/2008 9:55 PM   
KC36330


 

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quote:

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........... 5% or 10% is enough for any engine.


maybe within your flying style but you'd be hard pressed to get a pattern ship or a high performance heli to perform with that low a percentage and not be drastically lacking in power and running hot, especially in this part of the country this time of the year.

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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/12/2008 6:20 PM   
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quote:

To give you an idea of the potential energy in NM. . .a 5 gallon can has enough energy to produce a fatal blast radius of 42 feet, while carrying enough energy to cause injury and destroy property within a 316 foot radius.


This doesn't ring true to me. I never have heard of such strict rules. You can put a cigarette in nitro when below 98 degrees and it will only put the cigarette out. One would have to use a blasting cap. It's even hard to ignite a rich mixture which is why the dragsters have two huge magnetos. Also an empty drum of gasoline will explode far greater than 42 feet.


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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/12/2008 7:49 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

To give you an idea of the potential energy in NM. . .a 5 gallon can has enough energy to produce a fatal blast radius of 42 feet, while carrying enough energy to cause injury and destroy property within a 316 foot radius.


This doesn't ring true to me. I never have heard of such strict rules. You can put a cigarette in nitro when below 98 degrees and it will only put the cigarette out. One would have to use a blasting cap. It's even hard to ignite a rich mixture which is why the dragsters have two huge magnetos. Also an empty drum of gasoline will explode far greater than 42 feet.



Well that information came direct from ANGUS. . . I'm sure they would know. Also a drum is typically 55 gallons. . . I was speaking of a 5 gallon can. As far as the dragster ignition system is concerned. . .as density of the a/f mix in te cylinder increases, so does the electrical resistance @ the plug gap. It has two magnetos because with a blower and, high compression the plugs simply will not spark at all.


< Message edited by mr502go -- 6/12/2008 8:54 PM >


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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/12/2008 10:13 PM   
XJet


 

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ORIGINAL: mr502goAs far as the dragster ignition system is concerned. . .as density of the a/f mix in te cylinder increases, so does the electrical resistance @ the plug gap. It has two magnetos because with a blower and, high compression the plugs simply will not spark at all.

I would have thought that using nitromethane and a blower, a dragster engine would be running quite *low* compression ratios to avoid detonation.



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RE: Coolpower 30% heli fuel temporally discontinued - 6/12/2008 10:51 PM   
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quote:

It has two magnetos because with a blower and, high compression the plugs simply will not spark at all.


A nitro engine has a completly differant ignition system than a gas engine, including gas engines with blowers that really do have high compression ratio's. That is because the nitro engine is trying to start a very wet mixture of more nitro than air and is very difficult to ignite. The two magnetios is more to help reduce the flame front and detonation, but the power of the magneto has increased over the years, and that is to get a richer and richer fuel flow to ignite. Unlike gas engines which run with the most power at a slightly rich fuel mixture, a nitro engine runs more and more powerfull with the more nitro you add to the air.


< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 6/12/2008 10:53 PM >


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