diesel finally on the way??  
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diesel finally on the way?? - 6/10/2008 4:53:51 AM   
AMB


 

Posts: 3840
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: winter park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		With the Nitro shortage, lithium batteries from China being cut off. looks like diesel may have an upswing, Davis is gearing up with added new CNC tooling. not only for aircraft but also the car and truck market conversions Enya deserves credit for bringing out their diesels think their gamble payed off, PAW will see some more of their stuff out there too.
Really think some of the glow folks will take a hard look, better fuel economy and more power out of the engine vs glow

we may not just be the few too much longer martin

maybe they will take a look at Peter Burfords little gem too

< Message edited by AMB -- 6/10/2008 4:58:45 AM >
       Post #: 1

RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/10/2008 5:44:22 AM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7644
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I hope you are right, but I'm a bit skeptical. The smell and the difficulty in obtaining fuel is still a big problem. Although, the smell can become something of joy after one acquaints themselves with it (again) and also once one gets used to ordering fuel to the front door instead of picking it up at the local hobbyshop.

I found a local dealer for John Deere starting fluid. Now to catch up with a shop that sells Sig castor oil at a fair price. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

In my present situation, the added quietness of a model Diesel engine is really a big factor in its choice. My Enya .25D is still NIB. Can't stand that much longer. I wonder how it would power a .40 sized Telemaster ARF? Probably just fine.

Ed Cregger


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Artisan

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RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/10/2008 6:15:10 AM   
freeair


 

Posts: 323
Joined: 5/10/2008
From: queensland, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		i have had a half a dozen deisel engines sitting around for the last few years as i can not buy ETHER anywhere. years ago i could obtain this from certain chemists without any problems but now they seem to think its a drug.

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RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/10/2008 6:34:24 AM   
SGC


 

Posts: 1021
Joined: 12/8/2004
From: OAKEYQueensland, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		freeair,
The John Deer starting fluid is available here in Toowoomba- I just bought another 10 cans last week, if you really want to fly your diesels then check your local JD agent for starting fluid.
Stewart

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       Post #: 4

RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/10/2008 9:38:37 PM   
lildiesel


 

Posts: 459
Joined: 11/18/2005
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline

Sort of the same problem here. Starting fluid isn't as easy to find since it is the fuel of choice for those who cook down antihistimine tablets to make chrystal meth. And anything remotely connected to explosives is a trigger for a Homeland Security inquiry.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeair
i have had a half a dozen deisel engines sitting around for the last few years as i can not buy ETHER anywhere. years ago i could obtain this from certain chemists without any problems but now they seem to think its a drug.


(in reply to freeair)
       Post #: 5

RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/10/2008 10:18:23 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2792
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: online 		But commercial fuel is somewhat readily available in the USA: Eric Clutton, Davis, Aerodyne. I just don't care to mix fuel when commercial is available.

(in reply to lildiesel)
       Post #: 6

RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/11/2008 3:45:28 AM   
paw080


 

Posts: 12
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Corona, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Jim, Please add Red Max to the list. In addition to their available formulas, they'll mix your favorite brew if you wish.
Tony G

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RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/11/2008 2:47:37 PM   
Stuntguy13


 

Posts: 131
Joined: 5/11/2006
From: Jupiter, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I would love to see more diesel power out there but I think we need to work with one of the fuel suppliers to get a fuel that doesn't have the residual smell. I know that the people who fly diesel all the time kinda like the arroma but if glow flyers are going to switch there needs to be an option for this type of fuel. From what I have experienced it is the kero that has the lingering arroma. The ether flashes off and burns clean but the kero residual gets in the oil and lays on the plane and also gets on clothes. Maybe substiuting biodiesel for the kero will work. I know that this has been done and the fuel runs OK (may need 30% ether), has anyone run this in the field and what does the ship smell like after a flight (and the helpers clothes)?

Best, Dennis

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RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/12/2008 1:46:12 AM   
AMB


 

Posts: 3840
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: winter park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		There is an issue with biodiesel at least for model use there does not seem to be a standard (feedstock for lack of a better term) . This came up with a conversation with Bob Davis
the Kero is consistant so no issues ,the new #2 low sulfur fuel has almost no odor however the typical diesel formulas for the last 50 years or so and the Davis mixes for better than 30
are the Kero base it seems this this still the best way at this point. If the exhaust is piped away the plane stays clean,a little care and you do not get it on your clothing

martin

(in reply to Stuntguy13)
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RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/12/2008 4:51:15 AM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7644
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Piping away exhaust, etc., is typical of the behavior of Diesel enthusiasts - a relatively small number of people. For Diesel to make serious inroads into the glow engine group, lots would have to change in operating a model Diesel engine. The stink is obvious, but there are other problems as well.

Pricing model Diesel fuel at twice the price of glow fuel, simply because the engine will run a prescribed amount of time on only half as much fuel, when compared to glow, is one of the things that is killing model Diesel popularity. Being less greedy would greatly expand the number of consumers. Money could then be earned by selling accessories for model Diesel engines at an increased rate. Expensive fuel goes into the carburetor and then out of the exhaust port. That is money that will never be seen again. I would rather have it invested in engines, conversion heads, model Diesel powered models and etc. Not expensive fuel that stinks, goes bad quickly and is thrown away.

In other words. It is time for a paradigm shift. We need new blood in the Diesel businesses. Those that are not married to the past.


Ed Cregger



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RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/12/2008 6:06:03 AM   
AndyW


 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 1/17/2003
From: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AMB

With the Nitro shortage, lithium batteries from China being cut off. looks like diesel may have an upswing, Davis is gearing up with added new CNC tooling. not only for aircraft but also the car and truck market conversions Enya deserves credit for bringing out their diesels think their gamble payed off, PAW will see some more of their stuff out there too.
Really think some of the glow folks will take a hard look, better fuel economy and more power out of the engine vs glow

we may not just be the few too much longer martin

maybe they will take a look at Peter Burfords little gem too



I'm not into electric so I haven't been following the goings on but you say lithium batteries from China are cut off? Can you elaborate, provide links?



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RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/12/2008 6:15:55 AM   
AndyW


 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 1/17/2003
From: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

Piping away exhaust, etc., is typical of the behavior of Diesel enthusiasts - a relatively small number of people. For Diesel to make serious inroads into the glow engine group, lots would have to change in operating a model Diesel engine. The stink is obvious, but there are other problems as well.

Pricing model Diesel fuel at twice the price of glow fuel, simply because the engine will run a prescribed amount of time on only half as much fuel, when compared to glow, is one of the things that is killing model Diesel popularity. Being less greedy would greatly expand the number of consumers. Money could then be earned by selling accessories for model Diesel engines at an increased rate. Expensive fuel goes into the carburetor and then out of the exhaust port. That is money that will never be seen again. I would rather have it invested in engines, conversion heads, model Diesel powered models and etc. Not expensive fuel that stinks, goes bad quickly and is thrown away.

In other words. It is time for a paradigm shift. We need new blood in the Diesel businesses. Those that are not married to the past.


Ed Cregger



I second that emotion. If anyone's familiar with my YouTube submissions, some 80 in all with much of that devoted to diesel, you might deduce that I've been trying to come up with solutions to some of the objections to diesel.

Such as the fear of using electric starters. No fear, just a bit more care. A strong connecting rod helps too and that only pertains to Norvel conversions.

Use of biodiesel showed some promise.

No ether in the fuel proved to be a real hard nut to crack. BUT developments this spring may offer at least a partial solution.

Then there's the possibility of an entirely new fuel blend. This too has showed promise.

Unfortunately, I've lost nearly a year due to personal and family issues.

I'll try to resume the work and just maybe we'll have something.

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RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/12/2008 1:00:05 PM   
AMB


 

Posts: 3840
Joined: 6/10/2003
From: winter park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		The lithium battery thing came up in the Nitro shortage post on the glow site, as far as cost goes diesel fuel contains about 30% ether this is where the cost is and the cost of running diesel is still about the price of glow based on consumption per unit of time vs glow, and glow is increasing in price it most likely will approach $20 a gallon shortly
I know for a fact Davis is looking at possible changes thru Rand D projects. His standards are simple 100% right 100% of the time, this proves out in all his products heads, fuel,
You will not see an "off shore head": to save a buck, his rods for the traxxax is also an example , something is right since he has now launched into heads for the car and truck market qualilty products made in the USA are his standard period. The other makers here have also increased prices. The price of diesel fuel in the UK is twice that of here so "greed is not an issue

The advantage of diesel need not be repeated we are lucky we do not have the problems of our friends"down under" in the fuel thing , the money thing ( fuel cost) is not limited to to Davis, Redmax and cluttons are more too

My beaver if set up as an electric would have been around $400 and for a 10 minute run??land and insert an other battery for $90 or more??
I really think based on operating costs per hour this is not an issue

In closing this is not a plug for Davis, PAW is alive and well . and if you so desire you can transform a good base engine to diesel with a connersion head

Also in the electric fray ENYA has launched a diesel line 11,15, and 25 in 2 Strk I have all 3 to complement my Davis conversions martin



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RE: diesel finally on the way?? - 6/12/2008 1:07:00 PM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10554
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Martin, check PM Thanks, Dave

< Message edited by Hobbsy -- 6/12/2008 1:11:03 PM >

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