Spektrum Glitches? - Crashed Models  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       


JR R2000, JRPR2000 10CH RX, and JR Synth TX Module
Seller:  Erick Royer
Details:   $400.00   |  9/1/2008   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros >> Spektrum Glitches? - Crashed Models
Page: [1] 2   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Spektrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/10/2008 12:13:53 PM   
PlaneHeli


 

Posts: 604
Joined: 2/1/2006
From: Australia & Asia &, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		There have been several models lost at our field recently. It appears it may be around the same area.

They have all been Spektrum Txs with 6200 Rxs except the last crash this Sunday with 9000 Rx.

It may be a problem with 2.4Ghz in general but we have no XPS at our club and only one or two Futaba 6Ex Fasst.

I thought this technology was was not prone to such interference.

One may have been battery voltage (unconfirmed but he was using a 4 cell Nicad) but the others were lipo and 5 cell setups.

Is this likely to be interference / jamming.

No comms towers within immediate area.

Too many to be a coincidence.

Any thoughts. Similar occurances at your field.

< Message edited by PlaneHeli -- 6/15/2008 12:05:13 AM >

_____________________________

Useless Things...Runway behind you, Sky above you, Air in your Tanks, Engine Oil in the Hanger.
       Post #: 1

RE: Spectrum Glitches ? - Crashed models - 6/10/2008 12:17:48 PM   
simmo8


 

Posts: 347
Joined: 1/10/2008
From: mandurahwestern australia, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		G-Day
any power lines or wire fences near by
they can cause white nois and ause signal blocking and glitching 2.4Ghz is Not interferance free in that way

good luck

simmo


_____________________________

Why do my parents always tell me i dont want another plane!!!!
Fine with me ill just buy me a new heli

(in reply to PlaneHeli)
       Post #: 2

RE: Spectrum Glitches ? - Crashed models - 6/10/2008 12:26:31 PM   
PlaneHeli


 

Posts: 604
Joined: 2/1/2006
From: Australia & Asia &, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		simmo8,

No power lines or fences nearby. But there is a small power substation 0.4Nm away. This would be behind the Tx when flying.

Cheers

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by PlaneHeli -- 6/10/2008 12:36:25 PM >

_____________________________

Useless Things...Runway behind you, Sky above you, Air in your Tanks, Engine Oil in the Hanger.

(in reply to simmo8)
       Post #: 3

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/10/2008 12:38:04 PM   
simmo8


 

Posts: 347
Joined: 1/10/2008
From: mandurahwestern australia, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		well thats got me stuffed

duno what it is then

good luck findin out let me know if you find what it is

thanks

simmo


_____________________________

Why do my parents always tell me i dont want another plane!!!!
Fine with me ill just buy me a new heli

(in reply to PlaneHeli)
       Post #: 4

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/10/2008 12:42:55 PM   
simmo8


 

Posts: 347
Joined: 1/10/2008
From: mandurahwestern australia, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		unlikley for it to be the that power substation although the "full range spectrum radios have about 5km range on them well thats what ive been told"


_____________________________

Why do my parents always tell me i dont want another plane!!!!
Fine with me ill just buy me a new heli

(in reply to simmo8)
       Post #: 5

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/10/2008 1:43:16 PM   
Zeeb



Posts: 1789
Joined: 11/11/2004
From: Pleasant Grove, UT, USA
Status: offline 		99% of the problems I've seen actually resolved with the Spektrum stuff turned out to be user error.

Most of those problems are power (electrical system) related. I only have one model on a 4 cell battery and that's a small trainer I keep around with the 1100 mah battery that came with one of my radios.

Did any or all of the users have the "Quick Connect" firmware update?

I recently had quite a surprise with a 50cc size bird and a power brownout on an R921 rx. I've flown that since last fall without issues and it had the original Quick Connect which does not include the flashing light power brownout indication. I had all of my rx's updated to the latest version and flew that model again. Guess what? Flashing lights on landing....

Now this thing HAD dual Li-Ions, dual regs, BatShare and dual power feeds to the rx. I was not able to find a fault in the system on ground testing and there should be no way the servos on that model should have been able to pull the battery voltage down to the 3.5 volts necessary to cause a "reboot" of the rx, but it happened.

Now maybe it's something that just cropped up, maybe it had been happening all along and I did not notice it as the rx re-links with the tx so quickly when the new firmware is installed, who knows?

You gotta pay attention to the power system on the new 2.4GHz systems.

_____________________________

Zeeb

(in reply to simmo8)
       Post #: 6

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/10/2008 3:06:03 PM   
PlaneHeli


 

Posts: 604
Joined: 2/1/2006
From: Australia & Asia &, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Thanks Zeeb,

Im not sure if the Rxs in question had the updated software. Probably not due to our location except any that were purchased recently with the firmware updated by the manufacturer.

Im not using 2.4 yet. Hope to get the Futaba 10C. So just trying to determine whats going on. If its general 2.4 interference / jamming or user error.

The most recent crash lost control by a flyer aware of the power critical requirements of Spektrum and had ONE 5 cell battery.

What other user errors are there to consider apart from suitable battery capacity and condition.

Also weve heard of 2.4Ghz jammers that would make any 2.4 system lose signal. Conspiracy theory I know, but there has been quite a few planes go down. They could all be due battery problems but certainly many guys are aware of this problem and are duly carefull. Although none I know are using dual battery & dual switches. (although I am for all my planes and helis although i havnt switched to 2.4Ghz yet).

How quick is the reboot now with the firmware updated spektrum Rxs. Most of our problems were the 6200 Rx except the last crash which was a 9000 Rx.

Have you determined what caused your brownouts as two batteries and two switches should solve this problem. What else could have caused it.

Cheers

< Message edited by PlaneHeli -- 6/15/2008 12:06:16 AM >

_____________________________

Useless Things...Runway behind you, Sky above you, Air in your Tanks, Engine Oil in the Hanger.

(in reply to Zeeb)
       Post #: 7

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/10/2008 4:43:06 PM   
Zeeb



Posts: 1789
Joined: 11/11/2004
From: Pleasant Grove, UT, USA
Status: offline 		I don't have a clue why the electrical system in that 50cc size model failed to provide adequate voltage/amperage, I was not able to make it fail on the ground. The only thing I did not check was the amount of heat in the regulators on landing. Later testing did not seem to generate enough heat to cause a problem. Even if one had failed, the BatShare is capable of feeding both outputs from one battery.

As for a solution; I've been in the process of switching over to the A123 batteries which have a much higher output capability, lower voltage so no regulators are needed, and a very fast recharge time. This experience just accelerated that change over and I don't anticipate any further power issues....

Other common errors I've seen with the Spektrum stuff; bind buttom depressed when setting the tx down or inadvertantly during flight, low tx battery, low model battery, high impedence cells in the battery packs, overheated regulators on Li-Ion/Li-Po systems, using a three wire lead volt meter to check battery voltage puts the rx into bind mode, servo failure blamed on the radio, corroded or defective leads, and the list goes on. I guess the main point is that if you do things correctly, the stuff just works great.

You have to remember that these newer radios are much more "computer" than ever before and if there is one constant with computers, it is that there are no points for effort. It is either correct or it doesn't work.

_____________________________

Zeeb

(in reply to PlaneHeli)
       Post #: 8

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/11/2008 5:13:18 AM   
Campgems


 

Posts: 1800
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: offline 		We've had a couple Specturm crashes at our field. Both turned out to be receiver antennas breaking off at the circuit board. One other crash was from a broken transmitter antenns. Lots's of ESC's burning up do to over loads. I didn't make the last cub meeting but our president mentioned a "brown out" issue and he was susposed to send me a copy of what he had so I could post it on our web site.

Futaba has had a few issues with their 2.4 radios. TX's that were not unique, receivers that didn't have enough signal output to control some equipment and the last I heard was the receivers shutting down due to over heating if they were mounted under the canopy.

There is an answer to each of the problems, but some times it hard to dig out of the broken balsa. Not a lot different than the 72mhz stuff in that reguard.

We have barbed wire fence around our field, being as we are in the center of a cattle ranch. We have a 440V three phase power line right behind the field and another across from the field We used to have problems with the first line as it used to go across the end of our runway. Seem as everytime a plane hit the line, it would catch on fire, sometimes resulting in a grass fire requiring the CFD to extinguish. We resolved that probem by burrying close to 1000 ft of that feed underground at our clubs expense.

We've got a college less than a quarter mile away and who knows what RFI-EFI they are spewing out. At the edge of the college is a National Guard Base that is active all year as it is one of the Urban Warfare training centers. Lots of helicoptor activity. An antenna farm on a hill about a 1/2 mile behind our field that is cell phone, Highway Patrol relays, Pagers towers, and who knows what else. All of that and I've only seen one shoot down and maybe two, and they were caused by guys turning on their transmitter when someone was flying on their frequency.

Lets face it, most of our cubs are in the least desireable sites in the county. Old Land fills, next to power plants, sewerage treatment plants, you name it. Yet most of our shoot downs, glitches, etc are our own fault. Just something to chew on. Not to say that Spectrum isn't having a problem. By the way, I'm wating to see if 2.4Ghz really works

Don

(in reply to Zeeb)
       Post #: 9

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/11/2008 2:30:42 PM   
Zeeb



Posts: 1789
Joined: 11/11/2004
From: Pleasant Grove, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Don,

Here's a link to the SB on Spektrums website about the Quick Connect update;

http://www.spektrumrc.com/Articles/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1756

The problem first surfaced with the electrics as many folks were having difficulties due to BEC's not putting out sufficient voltage for the rx and the servos, or getting hot while doing so and that causes more resistance and lowers the voltage. The JR/Spektrum 2.4GHz rx's shut down at 3.5 volts and "reboot" when the power is restored.

On the initial firmware, when that happened the rx had to scan the whole frequency band looking for the two frequencies the tx was using, a 2 to 5 second delay. The first version of Quick Connect changed that protocol to where the rx comes back online with the same two frequencies it was using on shutdown resulting in a re-linking with the tx in less than 1/2 second. About the same amount of time it takes a 72MHz rx to come back after a power problem. The second and latest version of Quick Connect does the same thing but it adds an indication that the fault has taken place. The lights on the rx's flash when a power brownout has occured.

Anyone running JR/Spektrum rx's should determine if they have the Quick Connect firmware and if not, Horizon will update the rx's for free if you ship them back, they also pay for return shipping so all it costs you is the initial shipping. One other note, all the rx's both the main units and satellites, need to have the same firmware or they will either not work or re-connect at the speed of the slowest rx.

Hope that clears things up a bit????

_____________________________

Zeeb

(in reply to Campgems)
       Post #: 10

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/11/2008 4:20:55 PM   
Eric.Henderson



Posts: 1400
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: Mt Laurel, NJ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeeb

Don,

Here's a link to the SB on Spektrums website about the Quick Connect update;

http://www.spektrumrc.com/Articles/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1756

The problem first surfaced with the electrics as many folks were having difficulties due to BEC's not putting out sufficient voltage for the rx and the servos, or getting hot while doing so and that causes more resistance and lowers the voltage. The JR/Spektrum 2.4GHz rx's shut down at 3.5 volts and "reboot" when the power is restored.

On the initial firmware, when that happened the rx had to scan the whole frequency band looking for the two frequencies the tx was using, a 2 to 5 second delay. The first version of Quick Connect changed that protocol to where the rx comes back online with the same two frequencies it was using on shutdown resulting in a re-linking with the tx in less than 1/2 second. About the same amount of time it takes a 72MHz rx to come back after a power problem. The second and latest version of Quick Connect does the same thing but it adds an indication that the fault has taken place. The lights on the rx's flash when a power brownout has occured.

Anyone running JR/Spektrum rx's should determine if they have the Quick Connect firmware and if not, Horizon will update the rx's for free if you ship them back, they also pay for return shipping so all it costs you is the initial shipping. One other note, all the rx's both the main units and satellites, need to have the same firmware or they will either not work or re-connect at the speed of the slowest rx.

Hope that clears things up a bit????


Great answer. It should be framed fo all to see.

There will be a test next week :-)

I have seen a lot of confused faces at the field when the RX keeps flashing and the servos can still move. All you have to do to simullate the regular flashing condidtion is switch off the TX and then turn it on again. Once you show people that it is only a "notifcation" they seem to be a lot happier.

I wish all receivers had a data log port to show a hold or what could be leading up to a hold.

Regards,

Eric.

_____________________________

If it has wings I''ll fly it....

(in reply to Zeeb)
       Post #: 11

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/11/2008 5:36:45 PM   
Campgems


 

Posts: 1800
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Zeeb, thank you for the detailed post. With your premission, I'll post your response as well as the link to the Spectrum Alert on our club web site.

Don.

(in reply to Zeeb)
       Post #: 12

RE: Spectrum Glitches? - Crashed Models - 6/11/2008 6:02:12 PM