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AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/10/2008 2:14:46 PM   
Hossfly



Posts: 3841
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline 		AMA Leader Members, that task for you is happening. I received my ballot yesterday, Monday, 06-09-08.

The instructions are good. They do lead you to vote for what AMA wants, however that is to be expected. May I suggest you give this ballot close attention as the #2 item is nothing more than an increase of bureaucracy and assumption of more power by headquarters.

All of the items are lumped into TWO items which you vote Yes to accept or No to decline. Just TWO votes.

While #1 looks good, IMO it is in reality no significant item one way or the other. I voted NO, but no heartburn for anyone voting Yes.

No. 2 is the BIGGIE. That is one that removes the CFO from the Executive Vice President (EVP) position and makes the EVP simply a lackey for both the EC and the ED, while increasing the bureaucracy with an "Appointed" CFO.

Gentlemen, if you wish to continue to have some input into the operations of the Academy of Model Aeronautics, I plead with you to vote NO on this specific question.

Now for the ballot itself: The ballot is a simple postage-paid card with no ID marks upon it. It returns to AMA Headquarters for count, not the auditor. There is NO ACCOUNTING system on the card or for what happens to it once you mail it back.
This ballot has chad hanging everywhere. It could so easily be reproduced and the election seeded to whatever results the seeder/collector so desires. Since no record of the ballot exists, there is no method to really know the actual results of this vote.

IMO, the entire balloting process is an insult to the intelligence and dedication of the Leader Members.

_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein
       Post #: 1

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/10/2008 4:36:58 PM   
DREAMER-RCU


 

Posts: 26
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Yes on 3 & 4.

NO on 5 thru 11.

Have to agree with Horrace on this one - also the stuffing of the vote box.

(in reply to Hossfly)
       Post #: 2

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/10/2008 8:51:04 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9188
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

while increasing the bureaucracy with an "Appointed" CFO.
Question, is the "appointed CFO" hired on experinecne in finance or how many AMA friends he/she has.

Whatever the AMA has to do to get a qualified person into the head of finance chair is the best selection in my opinion. Finance is not a seat that should be filled by someone who is popular with the crowd, but rather book and practical smarts with finance. Also that person needs to be paid money with incentives to grow revenues, like any othre money manager.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to DREAMER-RCU)
       Post #: 3

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 3:15:06 AM   
tailskid



Posts: 5509
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Tolleson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Ballot sent in today! Yes and NO in that order!

_____________________________

# 93 in Club Saito

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 4

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 3:53:56 AM   
aimmaintenance



Posts: 693
Joined: 9/11/2003
From: Montpelier, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I

< Message edited by aimmaintenance -- 6/11/2008 11:21:35 AM >

_____________________________

If it's still in one piece means I haven't flown it yet.

(in reply to tailskid)
       Post #: 5

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 7:07:53 AM   
Hossfly



Posts: 3841
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline 		"aimmaintenance"

Please, I don't mean to be a butt-hole or just rude, however this thread is to advise the opinions of the current election in progress where the LEADER members are voting on new issues as proposed by the Bylaws Committee under the Executive Council.

If you wish to rehash the old, old, and older insurance arguments, may I request you do so in one of the 'umpteen other threads that discuss such, or start yourself another one.

Thank you for your kind consideration.


_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein

(in reply to aimmaintenance)
       Post #: 6

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 2:08:06 PM   
woopie


 

Posts: 88
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Clarksburg, NJ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

quote:

while increasing the bureaucracy with an "Appointed" CFO.
Question, is the "appointed CFO" hired on experinecne in finance or how many AMA friends he/she has.

Whatever the AMA has to do to get a qualified person into the head of finance chair is the best selection in my opinion. Finance is not a seat that should be filled by someone who is popular with the crowd, but rather book and practical smarts with finance. Also that person needs to be paid money with incentives to grow revenues, like any othre money manager.


According to the AMA Introductory Letter and accompanying Article changes and additions; The Chief Financial Officer will be chosen, not hired. The position is a voluntary, non-voting ex-officio member of the Executive Council, chosen by a 3/4 affirmative vote.

Generally I'm not so loathe to think the AMA is confounded by ulterior motives to further some hidden agenda. However I do have a problem with Motion X, Article X, Officers (8), in that the last sentence says the CFO shall be subject to minimum qualifications and experience as adopted by the EC. I find this wording objectionable and demeaning. I need to find out what the EC adopted minimum qualifications and experience are before voting yes, or no.

I also found the lack of audit accounting in the voting method to be unprofessional.


< Message edited by woopie -- 6/11/2008 2:13:55 PM >

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 7

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 2:31:27 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: woopie

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

quote:

while increasing the bureaucracy with an "Appointed" CFO.
Question, is the "appointed CFO" hired on experinecne in finance or how many AMA friends he/she has.




Generally I'm not so loathe to think the AMA is confounded by ulterior motives to further some hidden agenda. However I do have a problem with Motion X, Article X, Officers (8), in that the last sentence says the CFO shall be subject to minimum qualifications and experience as adopted by the EC. I find this wording objectionable and demeaning. I need to find out what the EC adopted minimum qualifications and experience are before voting yes, or no.

I also found the lack of audit accounting in the voting method to be unprofessional.




Woopie's quote of Motion X would lead me to believe that the CFO will be appointed by how many AMA friends he/she has on the board.

Since there is apparently no audit trail, maybe everyone should spend some money and send their ballots back by Fedex with signature required.

I will be sure to read through it all when I get my ballot.



_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to woopie)
       Post #: 8

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 5:07:18 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3388
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online 		I am not a Leader member, so I will not comment on the context of the ballot.

However, as loathe as I am to AMA spending additional money on stuff,
would it have killed them to have outsourced the ballot process with tracking?

Why are Openess & Accountability so detested at Muncie, showing up again with the fraudable polling and unspecified qualifications. How likely is it that the qualifications will be determined after they decide just whom among their partyliners will get the seat.

OK agreed, we'll give the seat to Ted here... Ted, what are your qualifications?
Uh, I done took that there "math" in highschool.
Right, HS Math is now the requirements, somebody write that down.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to P-51B)
       Post #: 9

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 6:01:19 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9188
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

OK agreed, we'll give the seat to Ted here... Ted, what are your qualifications?
Uh, I done took that there "math" in highschool.
Right, HS Math is now the requirements, somebody write that down.
Kid do you write politcal satire on the side? You should include pics with these daily satires so we can understand what they mean from a physical perspective insead of trying to decipher them contextuially. This one wasn't so bad however.

BTW ... Hoss, how many leader members are there?

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 10

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 6:20:10 PM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 4974
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: offline 		This is from my District VP whom I trust implicitly.

"You should have just received a letter which was sent to all Leader Members asking for you to vote on the By Laws Changes which were unanimously approved by the Executive Council and were therefore required to be sent to leader members for ratification.

I ask that you read those changes and take the time to vote and also encourage any LM in your area or that you know to vote as well. These are the first of several changes that make the organization more responsive to the members and more flexible to respond to other requirements.

The first of these changes provides club officers with primary coverage in the event the club has a problem and the club officers are included in the law suit. In the past it was unclear whether the coverage for officers was secondary or not. This now makes it clear that the coverage is primary and should make members more comfortable accepting positions of leadership in local clubs.

The next two which are tied together make the EVP a true vice president instead of a financier who serves as a VP. It will make nomination and selection of a member for the position tied to dedication and interest in AMA as opposed to the financial experience and background of the nominee. We will still have a CFO appointed to help keep us focused on the money aspects of all decisions but not tie the VP to that requirement. Further, the EVP will now be a person better suited and interested in representing AMA at numerous national and international functions.

I urge you to vote yes on these items as over a year of work and discussion have gone into the wording and I believe that it is truly in the best interest of the Academy that we pass these changes.
I urge you to vote yes on these items as over a year of work and discussion have gone into the wording and I believe that it is truly in the best interest of the Academy that we pass these changes. If you decide to vote no, I ask you to still urge all LM to vote as that is the most important function that they have."

Therefore my vote is for the affirmative on both items. I urge other thinking AMA Leader Members to do likewise.

Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member - District V



< Message edited by Red Scholefield -- 6/11/2008 6:21:27 PM >

_____________________________

Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 11

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 8:09:29 PM   
Jim Messer



Posts: 1139
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Sebring, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I'm in the same district as Red, and I voted YES to both issues. I am surprised that there isn't a place on the ballot to identify the voter. Truthfully, I believe it should be done over, with some accountablilty to the ballot.

Jim Messer - Leader Member for over 50 years - 11691

_____________________________

Jim Messer

(in reply to Red Scholefield)
       Post #: 12

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 8:21:52 PM   
dasintex



Posts: 853
Joined: 9/27/2004
From: Belton, TX, USA
Status: online 		Red;

That is the same letter I got from my VP in District VIII.


(in reply to Red Scholefield)
       Post #: 13

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 9:34:02 PM   
woopie


 

Posts: 88
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Clarksburg, NJ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy


However, as loathe .....


Great word!

quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

OK agreed, we'll give the seat to Ted here... Ted, what are your qualifications?
Uh, I done took that there "math" in highschool.
Right, HS Math is now the requirements, somebody write that down.


Kinda the way I felt after reading ".....minimum qualifications....."
Apparently there's more to it. As part of a reply from the AMA regarding questions I had, minimum qualifications and experience are; "BS in Accounting, CPA with minimum of 5 years (10 prefered) in accounting with experience in financial reports, budgets and investments."
I'm ok with Ted if he can do that.



< Message edited by woopie -- 6/11/2008 9:37:29 PM >

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 14

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/11/2008 11:45:06 PM   
s3nfo


 

Posts: 474
Joined: 1/9/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: woopie

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

quote:

while increasing the bureaucracy with an "Appointed" CFO.
Question, is the "appointed CFO" hired on experinecne in finance or how many AMA friends he/she has.

Generally I'm not so loathe to think the AMA is confounded by ulterior motives to further some hidden agenda. However I do have a problem with Motion X, Article X, Officers (8), in that the last sentence says the CFO shall be subject to minimum qualifications and experience as adopted by the EC. I find this wording objectionable and demeaning. I need to find out what the EC adopted minimum qualifications and experience are before voting yes, or no.

I also found the lack of audit accounting in the voting method to be unprofessional.



"minimum qualifications and experience" as determined by the people or group who run any business or organization is pretty much the boilerplate requirements that have been used to hire people since the beginning of time. I personally can't see why anyone would have a problem with that.



_____________________________

Jerry N
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf

(in reply to woopie)
       Post #: 15

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/12/2008 7:56:32 AM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3388
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online 		When he addresses "thinking members",
is he expecting them to think about it, then just do as they are told anyway?

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to abel_pranger)
       Post #: 16

RE: AMA LEADER members: Please: ??s - 6/12/2008 5:39:09 PM   
frankp