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Nitro Shortage? - 6/13/2008 1:01 PM   
scosby


 

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From: , TX, USA
Status: offline 		I just recieved an e-mail from one of the clubs where I fly telling members that glow fuel is going to become very Hard to come by due to a Nitro shortage. following is part of the e-mail... (You may want to pass on to the members that there is a huge shortage of
nitromethane. A friend of mine works at Hobbytown and their suppliers
are not being able to supply fuel. China is the only manufacture and
have cut production 95% and during the summer no Nitro is being allowed
to be made during the Olympic games. The NHRA will not be holding a
racing season because VP fuels has no supply for drag racing. This
trickle down means if you can get Nitro RC fuel, expect to pay as high as $76 a gallon.So stock up now!)
I have ask at another LHS and they havent heard anything about a shortage. Thought I would ask you Guys.


Thanks!


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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/13/2008 2:41 PM   
balsaeater


 

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Status: offline 		For USA all the indications are there is no problems of supply as USA has thier own factories and no real reports of shortage seem to exist

This is probably a gouging the customers for extra money rather than any real shortage for the USA as Nitromethane is made from natural gas and there is no shortage of natural gas

Other parts of the world mostly get Chinese sources of the stuff but as they mostly use low nitro fuels anyway can probably mostly cope with zero nitro fuels for the few months

There exists several threads on this subject

30% nitro fuel supply issues for coolpower
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7583643/tm.htm

running motors on zerp nitro
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7091488/tm.htm


what really impacts glow fuel prices
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7090130/tm.htm

FAI 80% methanol 20% Castor zero nitro fuel
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7013033/tm.htm

also threads on alternatives chemicals for nitro Methane such as Nitro Ethane and nitro Buthane which do exist that do 90% the same job but some a re a tad toxic so shop carefully but nitro methane , Methanol ,E85 , gasoline and batteries of all types are somewhat also toxic so whats new

balsaeater

< Message edited by balsaeater -- 6/13/2008 3:10 PM >

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/13/2008 2:45 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		This is waaay over exagerated. See the prior post on 30% coolpower. There is another US manufacture, Dow will provide for hobbiest but not for the NHRA. Morgans apparantly is using only a Chinese source. VP is providing fuel for the NHRA, but no extra fuel.

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/13/2008 3:23 PM   
scosby


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks, I made the post before I read balsaeaters thread 30% nitro fuel supply issues for Coolpower!

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/20/2008 3:29 AM   
Chinayoungboy


 

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Status: offline 		yes, exactly!!!! now, there is a shortage of Nitromethane in the Market.

I am a munufacturer and exporter of nitromethane on China, meanwhile, we are the biggest one. but now we have no stock to sell and our company didnot allow us to offer for a while. Everyday, there are many importer form USA, Europe and Australia enquiry the Nitromethane but we can not supply them.

Now, in China, I aslo get a news that we can not transport the nitro in July, although, we did not give the government paper, it is sooner or later. this will continue to end of Aug.2008.

Aslo, we can not open all of the production line to product in Nitromethane. We have a power cut. Five days product and five day stop. this is give us a big limition.

This is our situation. and i donot think that there are another manufacturer is better than us. if we shut down,so they do.......


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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/20/2008 6:54 AM   
mr502go


 

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Status: offline 		I have been talking to Buzz out at Magnum fuels, he's getting our club set up. . . He has AWESOME prices, super nice guy. He has no problem explaining as much about his fuel as he can without giving away proprietary secrets, and is happy to make adjustments on the juice in your jug. He gets all his Nitro from ANGUS, the subsidiary of Dow. . . this Nitro is produced in this country and has been there all the time, and apparantly isn't going anywhere. Obviously the production process must be such that it's much cleaner. While appreciate the fact that everyone must make a living. I can't support a company who's operations create a byproduct so dangerous you have to shut it down when athletes are present. Any supplier needs to be consistant and reliable. Unfortunately that is no longer the case with morgan, or anyone else using chinese Nitro. I know the government is putting the brakes on it, but the effect is the same. Buy American where possible, and especially when it affects ALL our world.



< Message edited by blw -- 6/20/2008 4:10 PM >

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/20/2008 11:24 AM   
XJet


 

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Status: offline 		mr502go you make some valid points, and some that many people forget.

I am not a Chinaphobe but we should remember that every time we buy something that's "made in China" we are in effect helping export our own pollution offshore.

But don't blame China... if people *really* cared they wouldn't be buying products from China at all yet most Western nations are importing massive amounts of Chinese-made goods.

Have a look around your own house check out where most of your electrical appliances and consumer-electronics are made.

Chances are it's China.

So those who decry China's poor record of environmental protection need to first take a look in the Mirror if they have *any* Chinese-made goods in their houses or on their person.

It's easy to be highly principled in such tings until such time as it hits you in the wallet.

How many people are prepared to pay two or three times as much for their consumer electronics, clothing, shoes or electrical appliances just to keep the planet clean?

I'm sorry but I really think that when we blame China for polluting the planet we really ought to look at ourselves first.

And let's not forget that without cheap Chinese engines, ARFs, and a lot of other stuff, few of us would be able to afford to be as involved in the hobby as we are.

It's all about supply and demand. If we didn't demand low-priced goods China would not be making them.

What is it they say? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?

And for what it's worth, last time I visited the USA, I could not believe how much pollution there was. Back in July 2003 I spent a week in LA on the set of Junkyard Megawars and was astonished that the horizon was always hazy and the sun wasn't anywhere near as "hot" as it is in New Zealand where I live. If you want to see *clear* skies, come to NZ and you'll realize just how polluted parts of the USA actually are.

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/20/2008 12:09 PM   
balsaeater


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mr502go

I have been talking to Buzz out at Magnum fuels, he's getting our club set up. . . He has AWESOME prices, super nice guy. He has no problem explaining as much about his fuel as he can without giving away proprietary secrets, and is happy to make adjustments on the juice in your jug. He gets all his Nitro from ANGUS, the subsidiary of Dow. . . this Nitro is produced in this country and has been there all the time, and apparantly isn't going anywhere. Obviously the production process must be such that it's much cleaner. While appreciate the fact that everyone must make a living. I can't support a company who's operations create a byproduct so dangerous you have to shut it down when athletes are present. Any supplier needs to be consistant and reliable. Unfortunately that is no longer the case with morgan, or anyone else using chinese Nitro. I know the government is putting the brakes on it, but the effect is the same. Buy American where possible, and especially when it affects ALL our world.




Ummmm I can sorta agree with a lot of where your coming from but not all as my point of view is from Europe where we pay easy the double the price that the USA does for fuel products.

I suspect the real truth is the Chinese produce the nitro methane from electricity and it requires gobs of electrical power to transform natural gas into Carbon dioxide and then super heat it pass it over platimum catalistic reformers that glue the nitrogen to the Carbon and oxegen and make either methanol or nitro methane depending which product you have decided to make

The Vast majority of the Chinese electricity power comes from burning Chinese coal which is low grade high Sulpher types and the Electricity stations are old fashioned with no scrubbers to remove pollutants
The results are it heavily pollutes the atmosphere with thick smog over most of China

Reducing power station coal burning will reduce pollution and this will reduce power so factories have to close even if the factory is a clean factory not creating a nito methane heath hazard

I myself tend to want to buy quality and very rarely will the products which have good quality proven good track records come from China often the products are East European Korean Thailand Germany and sometimes USA

The problem is the branded products rejects often get re-branded some Chinese name and resold at a super low discount price and that also is where the buckets of money is made.
Or the same factory uses the same machines or Molds when the good branded name production is finished but they will use inferior cheaper material bad QC methods whatever and sell the copy cat clones to us and yet more money is made but often these products are shoddy at best

Being from Europe and mostly probably using Chinese nitro methane this years $800 of large 25cc glow engine ( Checz and Japanese no Chinese among them ) risk to have to perform under power on Zero nitro where normally 10% would be the preference to use but they will function on no nitro fuels
If I had known the Nitro shortage was looming I would have opted to get the South Korean Kokam Lipos and some German or checz electric engines and stayed with electric where already 80% of my planes are already electric and maybe less than 5% of the stuff is made in China branded or not branded
I prefer to not purchase anything made in China mostly because nearly every made in China product I ever got so far was to shoddy to do its job properly
However I figure 10% of my purchases of every day items are from China
Some model plane guys arrive the field with nearly 100% made in China model plane stuff and I can often predict successfully that the product will be too shoddy made to function correctly so it becomes buy cheap buy twice





Balsaeater

< Message edited by blw -- 6/20/2008 4:14 PM >

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/25/2008 8:52 PM   
robbio4422


 

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Status: offline 		from what i have noticed.. its not harder to find (for me) just alot more expensive

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/28/2008 5:01 PM   
DaddySam


 

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Status: offline 		I had not heard of this nitro shortage until I visited a hobby shop this week. I'd bought four gallons of Powermaster 20/20 from a satellite shop and paid $20.00 per gallon. I asked about getting some more, and was told the price was going up $4.00 per gallon. When I went to pick up the fuel at the main store, I looked for some more. I talked to the shop owner, who is very big into RC truck/cars, and he told me that the price on the next shipment was going up $10 per gallon. He was surprised by my ignorance, and told me that he's been limiting customers to two gallons per purchase. I bought some Wildcat 20/20 just so I would have enough fuel to get through the summer. The Wildcat had gone from $20 to $25 per gallon, and I was lucky enough to find a gallon that was not marked up yet. So real or not, I know that in the past this hobby shop has had the best prices on fuel that I've found, and they are telling me that their cost is going up due to the nitromethane shortage. I should add that I tried to buy some Powermaster 20/20 from Chief Aircraft Supply and was told that their distributor was out, although they expected to have some in.
FYI only,
Sam

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/29/2008 6:37 AM   
JPMacG


 

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Status: offline 		With people buying and hoarding all the fuel they can find there certainly will become a shortage.

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/30/2008 3:38 PM   
wcmorrison



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Status: offline 		My LHS has been unable to get any fuel from his supplier, a big one in the US. He says they are gong up $8-9 per gallon on 10% Nitro mix and there will be nothing above 25% available. He says Angus is "covered by" NHRA and that the hobby guys are not going to have any product. There is a shortage all over town.

Cheers

Chip

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 6/30/2008 10:31 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		Angus stopped selling dragracing fuel over a year ago. They are in fact the only supplier for hobby fuels this year. Likely some suppliers were buying Chinese fuel, and Angus has put them on the bottom of their list, or not supplying to new customers. Those using Chinese fuel may not want you to know that.

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/1/2008 12:04 AM   
XJet


 

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Status: offline 		I think there's a new market: Nitromethane futures ;-)

I was lucky/smart enough to stock up with enough nitromethane to see our club through to Christmas and at the *old* price.

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/1/2008 2:31 PM   
blw



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Status: offline 		The NHRA has an extremely restrictive ruling on nitro sources. The teams have complained loudly about it.

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/1/2008 3:07 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		All NHRA events must use fuel purchased through them. Supposedly to keep the fuel the same for all competetors. However, other fuel may be purchased for demonstration runs, and for non NHRA competition.

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 7/1/2008 3:09 PM >

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/1/2008 5:17 PM   
blw



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Status: offline 		That may be true, but the article that I read hinted that nitro could be bought from any source before the restriction to a single source. The writer made it sound like the purpose was to keep out cheaper imported nitro. It said that the approved source was much more expensive and impacted teams without deep pocket funding.

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/1/2008 5:52 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		The single source is VP and they are using the Cinese fuel. Here is an article which may clear up some of the confusion.

http://www.dragracingonline.com/analysis/x_5-nitro-1.html

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/3/2008 12:55 AM   
Upnet



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Status: offline 		Yesterday I bought a gallon of Powermaster 10% for $21.00. LHS told me shortage was due to that earthquake in China....and that no nitro is made in the USA anymore. It's ALL made in China. Limit is 2 gallon per customer. You also can't find any 30% Heli fuel. I had not realized there was a shortage.

Hey...how much would it cost to build a Nitro plant in the Southeast?

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/3/2008 12:47 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		Are you not reading the posts? Your LHS told you a bunch of li er false rumors. There is no earthquake in China that caused a nitro shortage and there is a plant in the southeast producing nitro for hobby fuels, please read the link in the preceeding post and the following.


http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/84/i48/8448notw2.html

http://www.dow.com/angus/news/2007/20070608a.htm

http://www.dow.com/angus/news/2007/20070331a.htm

http://www.dow.com/angus/prod/nm.htm

http://www.dow.com/angus/news/2006/20061114k.htm

Don't listen to wild rumors. Most information is available on the internet.

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/11/2008 2:26 AM   
Hyper7driver


 

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Status: offline 		You notice Tower Hobbies has sky rocketed fuel prices? What a rip. One of the local tracks selling Power Master is just as cheap as always, and talks like his price isn't going to change anytime soon. I guess we'll see next shipment he gets.

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/11/2008 7:47 AM   
balsaeater


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Are you not reading the posts? Your LHS told you a bunch of li er false rumors. There is no earthquake in China that caused a nitro shortage and there is a plant in the southeast producing nitro for hobby fuels, please read the link in the preceeding post and the following.


http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/84/i48/8448notw2.html

http://www.dow.com/angus/news/2007/20070608a.htm

http://www.dow.com/angus/news/2007/20070331a.htm

http://www.dow.com/angus/prod/nm.htm

http://www.dow.com/angus/news/2006/20061114k.htm

Don't listen to wild rumors. Most information is available on the internet.



Excellent info and yet more proof any rise in costs is artifical with only one purpose to gouge us
The LHS often is the last face we see in the supply line so I don't think they can arranging this rise as they get impacted with grumpy customers

My guess is the larger wholesalers who sell the stuff see the price of gasoline and transport fuels increasing and see the price differential of the natural gas derived products like methanol and nitromethane deterorating
So seeing a chance to gouge the nitro methane market with makey up mumbo jumbo reasons they are putting the prices up and all the rest of the smaller suppliers all the way to the LHS will get it in the neck for something which they have no control over

The best way to dent the plans of these outfits is whenever possible use lowest levels of nitro fuels and use electric power more often and if every modeler can reduce the demand for the product for this gouging period the laws of supply and demand will kick in and the price will drop rapidilly back down to realistic levels( some small rise in costs can be expected from increased transport costs until oil prices drop back down but not these gouging rates and when oil drops ensure the nitro prices drop as well)

Balsaeater

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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/11/2008 8:35 AM   
XJet


 

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ORIGINAL: balsaeater
Excellent info and yet more proof any rise in costs is artifical with only one purpose to gouge us
The LHS often is the last face we see in the supply line so I don't think they can arranging this rise as they get impacted with grumpy customers

Did you bother to look at the dates on most of those reports from Dow?

They're a year or so old and (according to the information I've received) a *lot* has happened in the past year in respect to the supply and price of nitromethane.

Demand has increased significantly (mainly from the industrial sector where it's used a a solvent), the raw material (linked to crude oil) is more expensive, and the shutdown of the Chinese supply has meant that prices *have* skyrocketed.


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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/11/2008 8:46 AM   
balsaeater


 

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ORIGINAL: XJet


<snip>
Demand has increased significantly (mainly from the industrial sector where it's used a a solvent), the raw material (linked to crude oil) is more expensive, and the shutdown of the Chinese supply has meant that prices *have* skyrocketed.




Out of curiousity what industries use the stuff.
If I know that then maybe I could figure where I could find a factory that uses the stuff and maybe I could sweet the guys to sell me 5 gallons at a lower price

Also I cant see why the demand from industry would increase as lots of industries are actually cutting back on production due to rising oil fuel costs which reduces demand for their products

balsaeater


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RE: Nitro Shortage? - 7/11/2008 11:57 AM   
XJet


 

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Status: offline 		I believe it's used in the printing and plastics industries.

And if you look at how much crude oil prices have risen in the past 12 months it would be silly to think that the price of nitro (which is made from a by-product of oil) wouldn't rise accordingly.

< Message edited by XJet -- 7/11/2008 11:58 AM >

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