Confusion on AMA rules for flying field  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> Confusion on AMA rules for flying field
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Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/23/2008 11:51:30 PM   
Richard39


 

Posts: 448
Joined: 12/17/2002
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Status: offline 		I was reading rule 7 on the back of the AMA membership application today and was no sure the intent... the rule is under Radio Control Section and states that no powered airplane flown outside should be flown within 25 feet of anyone except the pilot and his helpers... except when landing and taking off... Is this correct? I belong to a couple of flying clubs and I find other pilots flying at the same time as I am flying will flying frequently closer to me and other pilots that 25 feet... Part of this problem seems to be the magical Zero Line... I hear pilots state that they can fly anywhere near other pilots al long as they fly within the Zero Line... Is this true? What determines the Zero Line?

All of this has me reading the rules of AMA a little closer and I am finding that my two flying clubs are bending these rules...

Another rule states that you should not fly over 400 feet if your flying field is within 3 miles of an airport except in special events and when the airport has been contacted... We have pilots that violate that very important rule frequently... What is your opinion of these and other rules that are being bent a little?
       Post #: 1

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 1:38:19 AM   
mongo


 

Posts: 1188
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Midland, Republic of TEXAS, TX, USA
Status: online 		infractors should be SHOT, shot i tell you!

welcome to the land of confusion and abide by em if ya want and it isn't to much of an imposition rules

_____________________________

for muroc1, frank, none of the above is intended to be either bullying or insulting, it is just the way i communicate.

(in reply to Richard39)
       Post #: 2

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 1:42:19 AM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3265
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		For an official technical answer to something Safety related like that,
I would contact Gunfighter.
He will either have the AMA straight scoop or can get you it.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to mongo)
       Post #: 3

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 3:23:40 AM   
k3 valley flyer


 

Posts: 325
Joined: 1/9/2004
From: central , IL, USA
Status: offline 		Anyone who intentionally flys closer to people than 25 feet is just an idiot. Find yourself a different club or run for officer and talk to the safety officier, somebody needs to wake up before they kill somebody. What the heck is a zero line and what does it have to do with how close you fly to other pilots? 25 years doing this and never have heard of a zero line.

(in reply to Richard39)
       Post #: 4

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 3:45:59 AM   
BillyGoat


 

Posts: 465
Joined: 5/19/2004
From: -, MT, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: k3 valley flyer

Anyone who intentionally flys closer to people than 25 feet is just an idiot. Find yourself a different club or run for officer and talk to the safety officier, somebody needs to wake up before they kill somebody. What the heck is a zero line and what does it have to do with how close you fly to other pilots? 25 years doing this and never have heard of a zero line.


Ditto on all accounts Except put me down for only 23 years of flying.

(in reply to k3 valley flyer)
       Post #: 5

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 12:17:54 PM   
kid chuckles


 

Posts: 733
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Granbury, TX, USA
Status: online 		The Zero line is the one just before the one line. And everybody knows what a one liner is lol.
Edited to add: It's a joke

< Message edited by kid chuckles -- 6/24/2008 12:18:34 PM >

(in reply to BillyGoat)
       Post #: 6

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 1:40:09 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kid chuckles

The Zero line is the one just before the one line. And everybody knows what a one liner is lol.
Edited to add: It's a joke



Baaaaaarrrooooom Chhhhhhh.


I thought you needed a drum roll kid.....

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to kid chuckles)
       Post #: 7


RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 6:16:37 PM   
MajorTomski



Posts: 1383
Joined: 5/1/2003
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Rule 7 & 8 in the safety regs was a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the advent of airplanes that could hover, and to folks trying to do adventuresome things with helicopters in the hover.

The intent was to provide some margine of safety between your model and anyone arround you. I.e. no high speed passes 2 feet away from your head. 25 feet is still very close to be next to a moving object, that has a set of rotory knives on the front.

Also remember that the AMA rules are not laws. They are the conditions underwhich you are operating to obtain your insurance. If an accident occurs while a condition is willfully violated your AMA backup liabilty insurance goes away.

The altitude thing has been a point of contention for many years. Note that it is in the general section. It applys to free flight and rc planes. It also has a bit of both stupidity and of common sence behind it. The stupidity is there is no enforcable, viable, easy way to determine if a model is at or below 400 feet AGL. The common sence part is that the FAR's require 1:1 airplanes to stay 500 feet away ( often interpreted as above) any object or person on the ground. So if they're at 500 feet and we stay below 400 feet theres a 100 foot buffer hopefully preventing impact. The second sentance in that rule #5 is the important part see avoid and give way.

HTH
T

(in reply to P-51B)
       Post #: 9

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 7:08:39 PM   
Richard39


 

Posts: 448
Joined: 12/17/2002
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies... again I must ask but maybe in a different way... Were is the zero line at your flying fields... Is it the runway side next to the pilots? or can it be anywhere?

(in reply to MajorTomski)
       Post #: 10

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 7:13:32 PM   
Mr. Mugen



Posts: 5394
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: Ishpeming, MI, USA
Status: online 		Our club also is next to an airport and it seems as though many times we have had pilots go well beyond the 400 foot cap. Sure would be nice to have telemetry with an altimeter.

_____________________________

Everything electronic runs on smoke.....if you let your smoke out, it''s dead! AMA#378033

(in reply to MajorTomski)
       Post #: 11

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 8:35:13 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3265
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		What is a Zero Line? Is that another name for a No Fly line?

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Mr. Mugen)
       Post #: 12

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/24/2008 9:34:52 PM   
Richard39


 

Posts: 448
Joined: 12/17/2002
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, I believe that the term zero line is the same as a no fly line... usually it is between the pilots and the actual flying... It makes no sense to me to have the zero line near the pilots as that subjects all pilots flying at any time to the danger of an out of control flight/crash taking place... I have been to some field were the pilots stand 12 feet from the runway and others where the pilot is almost on the runway... Most pilots are aware of the dangers of flying close to another individual but there is always one pilot who wants to do an inverted high speed past 4 feet above the runway and 4 to 8 feet away from other pilots who are concentration on their own aircraft and not aware of what the pilot next to them is doing...

Then you have the pilots who fly down the runway and pull up into a low hover near other pilots who are flying.... All of this is in violation of AMA rules ( 25 feet) but it seems to me that there always be two kinds of pilots... those that know what can happen and fly in as safe a manner as possible and those that believe that they are too good to make a mistake and would never hit anyone...

< Message edited by Richard39 -- 6/24/2008 9:36:31 PM >

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 13

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/25/2008 4:49:02 AM   
804


 

Posts: 177
Joined: 9/17/2005
From: sheridan, IN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard39



Then you have the pilots who fly down the runway and pull up into a low hover near other pilots who are flying.... All of this is in violation of AMA rules ( 25 feet) but it seems to me that there always be two kinds of pilots... those that know what can happen and fly in as safe a manner as possible and those that believe that they are too good to make a mistake and would never hit anyone..



That was me a couple years ago, until one day I was flying in a harrier on the deck close in, in complete control until suddenly I wasn't. My .82 Saito powered profile crashed about 10 feet to the right, where another pilot would have been standing had there been one. Luckily, I was alone on the flightline. Now, I simply won't fly 3-d unless I'm alone at the field, or everyone else is off the flightline.

(in reply to Richard39)
       Post #: 14

RE: Confusion on AMA rules for flying field - 6/25/2008 6:57:13 AM   
Hossfly



Posts: 3777
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline 		In the AMA Membership Manual, there is a section page 5 of the 2008 Manual that describes how a good field should be laid out. The ZERO line is the edge of the runway.

Pilots should be 25 ft. behind that line.

>>>> AMA Membership Manual
B. Personnel Side of Flight Area:
Locations Distance Factor (measured perpendicular from edge at runway safety line)
Runway edge is the basic Safety line or 0
Pilot line a minimum of 25 feet from safety line
Pit line a minimum of 45 feet from safety line
Spectator line a minimum of 65 feet from safety line
Parking lot a minimum of 80 feet from safety line
Safety Zone: An additional 250-foot safety zone, added to the OVERFLY AREA, is desirable if any major roads, buildings, or
outdoor personnel activities are in the general area or if high-speed or high-performance aircraft are flown.

Recommended RC Flying Site Specifications:
<<<<<<

The AMA recommended flying site contains some 43 acres, plus any parking, pits, etc. Not many flying sites have such a grandiose area. That alone makes the recommendations impotent, and I would bet that less than 15% of the AMA EC, Staff, and Club Officers are aware that such written descriptions even exist.
Unfortunately, so very few have the guts to stand up to the bullies. If you want a safe flying site, you will have to make it so. Those ever popular good-ol'-boys that always get elected will not do it for you.

_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein

(in reply to KidEpoxy)