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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/12/2003 4:51:15 PM   
petergomes


 

Posts: 121
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: margoa, INDIA
Status: offline 		Dear All,

Ive read several mail,I need to understand how can one check impure or pure fuel & how much is the fuel adulterated or is there any such test or way to find out the purity of METHONOL & CASTOR????

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Peter Gomes
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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/12/2003 6:52:06 PM   
downunder-RCU



Posts: 1125
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Status: offline 		The only test I know of is for water in mixed fuel. Water drives the oil out of the mixture at a temperature that depends on the % of water impurity. Put a small sample in a sealed jar and then cool it, if there's water present then suddenly the oil will drop to the bottom of the jar. Warm it by even one degree and the oil will dissolve again.

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/12/2003 11:02:24 PM   
John Wells



Posts: 812
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Overland Park, KS, USA
Status: offline 		downunder, I love that avatar!

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/13/2003 1:33:50 PM   
petergomes


 

Posts: 121
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: margoa, INDIA
Status: offline 		hi all,

down under,do you mean to say mixed,a small sample should be taken in a test tube & then kept in the fridge to cool 7 if the oil settles down,its mean the there is water & if not the fuel is pure,pls can you expalin more in details.

I want to know how to check purity methonl seprately & also castor oil seperatley.

Any chemist or lab expert,pls adv

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thanks & regards
Peter Gomes

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/13/2003 1:41:06 PM   
petergomes


 

Posts: 121
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: margoa, INDIA
Status: offline 		Dear All,

Ive read several mail,I need to understand how can one check impure or pure fuel & how much is the fuel adulterated or is there any such test or way to find out the purity of METHONOL & CASTOR????


Pls adv me how to check the purity of methonol & the same with castor.I need them separely as I mix my own fuel-no nitro

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Peter Gomes

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Purities - 5/13/2003 4:12:27 PM   
DarZeelon



Posts: 6911
Joined: 4/9/2003
From: Rosh-Ha'Ayin, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		Hi Peter,

The only way to actually check and ascertain the purity of a substance, is with a spectrometer. No, you cannot buy it cheap in a local hardware store...

You can only trust the manufacturer/packer of the substance you bought. I don't know about your homeland, India, but in Israel a manufacturer of chemicals is never off what he claims.

Since these same chemicals have other uses; in the food and in the medical industries, there, a wrong composition can kill someone. And then the manufacturer is automatically blamed for it.

Manufacturers just don't take chances.

Sincerely,

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Dar Zeelon - ISRAEL - ddzeelon@gmail.com
MVVS - Jett - Nelson - Bolly - Mejzlik

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/13/2003 4:30:54 PM   
Ross Kean



Posts: 686
Joined: 6/4/2002
From: Fredericton, NB, CANADA
Status: offline 		A quantitative test for purity of methanol and/or mixed fuel is almost impossible without some sophisticated laboratory equipment. The best approach is to try it and see. If it runs OK compared to some fresh "reference" fuel then go for it. Empirical tests such as chilling to see when the oil drops out are, at best, an indicator of gross physical/chemical properties and will vary tremendously depending upon the composition of the fuel and the type/source of oil.

Ross

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/13/2003 5:58:43 PM   
petergomes


 

Posts: 121
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: margoa, INDIA
Status: offline 		Darzeelon,

great you are back,thanks for your reply.

I too have very strong dought what our co. which mfg are not upto the mark or as pwer the label,therefore I need to verify on the same.Should I try with some chemist.lab,they shuold have the spectrometer & what exactly should be the reading in the spectometer,any Example.

Im getting methonol at three diffrent prices
BR GRADE @$7
LR GRADE@$5
COMMERICAL GRADE @0.50 (Yes I mean just half a dollor).

The commericial grade seems to be also very goods as its evaporates from the hand immedately without leaving any stain or remain & its cristal clear,had used this on my LA.46.

Just dont want to waste big money on big mfg as they are killing us aeromodellers.

How about the castor oil????

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thanks & regards
Peter Gomes

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The best test method. - 5/13/2003 6:35:02 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7402
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Is to run the engine on the ground. If it runs good, what does it matter what the impurities are?

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       Post #: 9

Castor Oil - 5/13/2003 7:06:47 PM   
DarZeelon



Posts: 6911
Joined: 4/9/2003
From: Rosh-Ha'Ayin, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		Hi Peter,

About Castor oil, I would not entrust you tO The manufacturers.

To get good results in a model engine, the purity grade of commercially manufactured Castor oil, is NOT the correct index.

Pure, medicinal grade Baker's AA Castor oil, causes varnish and gunk, when used as a lubricant in a glow ignition model engine.

The compatibility of Castor oil for model engine use, is a function of being "Degummed". It is not a purity, or an acidity issue, but an index of the "goo" left, after leaving the volatile components of the oil to evaporate.

I would go the distance and import Castor oil, which is said to be degummed.

You can access this web site:

http://www.klotzlube.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=KS&Category_Code=RC_PRODUCTS

You can order BeNol from them. You can also select a lubricant package containing BeNol (Super Techniplate).
Maybe you can find a dealer nearer to your country (there isn't one in India), from whom it may prove less expensive to order.

Sincerely,

< Message edited by DarZeelon -- May 14 2003 4:47AM >

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/13/2003 11:57:40 PM   
Ross Kean



Posts: 686
Joined: 6/4/2002
From: Fredericton, NB, CANADA
Status: offline 		If you are really looking for impurities in methanol, you should analyze by GCMS (gas chromatography-mass spectrometry) for the presence of other alcohols, water, other solvents and hydrocarbons. You can look at residue after drying and residue after ignition (ash) and do quantitative analysis of inorganic residues by Inductively Coupled Plasma Emission Spectrometry. You can get into specific titrimetric analysis procedures for water (Karl Fisher titration) as well as specific analysis procedures for acidity, sulfur, UV Absorption cutoff etc... Keep in mind that the methanol is the simple part of the analysis. There can be a similar series of analyses for the nitromethane purity. The oil used is far more complex in terms of chemical and physical properties (composition, viscosity, flashpoint, ash, impurities, saturation index, lubricity, volatility, solubility characteristics, thermal breakdown...). In short, there is no simple way to determine (in detail) the impurities in fuel or components without a lot of specialized knowledge and some sophisticated laboratory equipment!

A simpler compositional analysis could be devised for % methanol, % nitromethane and % oil in a blend without considering impurities, but this isn't something that you could do at home with any degree of accuracy.

I am a chemist and run an analytical chemistry laboratory where we have access to both the equipment and the specialized knowledge. Even with this access, I still evaluate my fuel by trying it out. If there is some doubt as to performance, I will compare it to a fresh lot of fuel from a different commercial source. What do the composition or impurities matter if it works? Try it and see. If you have doubts, make sure you keep an eye on engine temperature - badly blended fuels may run hot.

The whole analysis thing is much more complicated than indicated on CSI !!!

Ross

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/14/2003 12:44:16 AM   
ShempHoward


 

Posts: 1147
Joined: 12/4/2001
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Status: offline 		You can always try using Klotz sythetic oil or their mix of Synthetic and Castor. These are excellent well respected oils for 2 and 4 stroke glow motors. Try looking in Motorcycle shops for Klotz oils.

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/14/2003 1:01:50 AM   
Ernie Misner


 

Posts: 3124
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Tacoma, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Ordering direct from Klotz is expensive. They have a $25 (or so) minimum plus shipping. I was pleasantly surprised here the other day that Hobbico (through Tower Hobbies carries the Klotz products!

The Klotz oils found in motorcycle shops are often the type that will mix ONLY with gasoline. Gots to be careful there.

Ernie

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/14/2003 7:27:24 AM   
downunder-RCU



Posts: 1125
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Status: offline 		The only mixed fuel I've tested for the affects of water/temperature is a blend of methanol and 18.5% second generation Mobil Jet Oil 2 (zero nitro). I drew a measured amount of fresh fuel into a syringe and then a measured amount of water plus some air so I could shake it. The temperatures below are the point at which the oil is driven out of solution to settle at the bottom.

.25% -10C (14F)
.5% -5C (23F)
.75% 0C (32F)
1.0% 5C (41F)
1.25% 11C (52F)
1.5% 16C (61F)
1.75% 22C (72F)
2% 29C (84F)
2.25% 34C (93F)
2.5% 39C (102F)

Within the accuracy of my method it gives a virtually straight line correlation.

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how to check purity of methonl & castor - 5/14/2003 8:05:52 AM   
Ross Kean



Posts: 686
Joined: 6/4/2002
From: Fredericton, NB, CANADA
Status: offline 		downunder

I don't doubt that your method worked for your particular fuel mixture and it may serve as a useful check for you for your usual mix. Unfortunately, the "dropout" point will vary as a function of the type of oil and the concentration of oil in the mix (plus concentration of nitro, if any). The presence of relatively small amounts of co-solvents such as acetone or higher alcohols (ethyl, propyl, isopropyl