Tail Trouble - I'm stumped!  
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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Thunder Tiger - Raptor 30, 50, 60, 90 >> Tail Trouble - I'm stumped!
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Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/2/2008 2:03:12 AM   
rcjon


 

Posts: 608
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Macon, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm overlooking something, maybe someone can make a suggestion that will help me.

Raptor2 was flying great until last week when the tail servo bracket broke in flight. I auto'd down without any apparent damage.

I took the bracket off of Raptor1 and installed it on Raptor2 (because R2 is my fav).

First flight with repaired R2 was fine. During 2nd flight, I seemed to lose some tail authority, then things really went weird. It would rotate a few degrees and freeze. Then it would seem to piro ok but when rudder control was returned to center it would continue on past where it should have stopped. Things seemed to be getting worse and I was having trouble controlling the heli, so I pulled throttle hold to make a mini-auto landing from about 10 feet. During the mini-auto, R2 spun around (piroed) several times as it came down.

Back at the shop, I went over everything and could find no binding or mechanical issues. I monkeyed with the gyro gain settings from 50 to 90. I checked the setttings on the gyro itself. Test flights in the backyard (I have enough room to hover) were all scary as hell. Heli seemed to want to rotate heading on its own. When rudder input is given, it overshoots the point where it should stop.

Tonight I took the GY401 out of Raptor1 and installed it in Raptor2. The gyro in Raptor1 gyro is almost brand new. No improvement.

Before you post, remember: 1st flight after repair was fine. I've checked for binding issues. I have almost 200 flights on both of these Rators 50s with GY401s and 9254 servos. No radio settings or gyro settings were changed between flying fine and flying poorly.

Next I'll swap servos, but it doesn't seem like a servo problem. If that doesn't work I guess I'll swap receivers. OR maybe I'll start putting stuff back on Raptor1. I'm waiting on a servo mount plate to come from HeliProz on 7/8.

I've never flown in any mode except heading hold. Could I learn anything by trying to fly in rate mode?

I wish I could get an idea what is going on before I have a major wreck.



< Message edited by rcjon -- 7/2/2008 2:05:33 AM >

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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/2/2008 12:35:37 PM   
gj1803


 

Posts: 190
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Blackpool, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I would def check your radio and servo. If you say you have checked all things mechanical (you didnt mention you checked the belt for slipping) and you have replaced the gyro it can only be 1. Your tx, 2. your Rx and 3. The servo. Eliminate each one individually and you should find the problem.

GJ

(in reply to rcjon)
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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/2/2008 3:10:13 PM   
Rafael23cc



Posts: 1099
Joined: 5/14/2002
From: Junction City, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Since you did not mention dis-assembling the tail case, I would suggest you do that. Check the pins that keep the pulley on the shaft. Do the same for the pulley up front. Those pins have the ability of backing out and creating a very interesting experience.

Rafael

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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/2/2008 7:12:52 PM   
BarracudaHockey



Posts: 10810
Joined: 7/13/2003
From: Orange Park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Swap servos, throw the tail mount in the trash, and put it in the canopy.

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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/2/2008 10:06:05 PM   
gj1803


 

Posts: 190
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Blackpool, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi BHockey, are you saying throw the tail mount servo mount in the trash and go back to long link rod? If so Why??

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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/2/2008 10:47:44 PM   
BarracudaHockey



Posts: 10810
Joined: 7/13/2003
From: Orange Park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Its safe most of the time in a crash.

A short rod, especially carbon, transmit vibration right down the rod to the servo gear train and amp, a long rod will absorb a lot of that, the intermediate bell crank design of the trex 600, and vibe 50 is even better.

It also keeps it out of the hot oil bath. Take it apart and see if there's oil inside. Sounds to me like the servo is on its way out though.

Even the titans I build I ditch the push pull collective and put the servo up front.

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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/3/2008 12:03:49 AM   
rcjon


 

Posts: 608
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Macon, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gj1803

I would def check your radio and servo. If you say you have checked all things mechanical (you didnt mention you checked the belt for slipping) and you have replaced the gyro it can only be 1. Your tx, 2. your Rx and 3. The servo. Eliminate each one individually and you should find the problem.

GJ



Tx. I did check the tail belt for slippage, but as I thought about this all day, I came to the same progession of things to check.

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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/3/2008 12:04:51 AM   
rcjon


 

Posts: 608
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Macon, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafael23cc

Since you did not mention dis-assembling the tail case, I would suggest you do that. Check the pins that keep the pulley on the shaft. Do the same for the pulley up front. Those pins have the ability of backing out and creating a very interesting experience.

Rafael



Good idea, I'll look in the tail case.

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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/3/2008 12:08:09 AM   
rcjon


 

Posts: 608
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Macon, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Swap servos, throw the tail mount in the trash, and put it in the canopy.



Interesting that you suspect the servo. That will be easy enough to check. Thanks.

So you don't think the push-pull collective is worth while?





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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/3/2008 11:37:09 PM   
rcjon


 

Posts: 608
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Macon, GA, USA
Status: offline
>>Take it apart and see if there's oil inside. <<

There was. Swapped servos but haven't had a chance to fly yet. Probably tomorrow.



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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/4/2008 1:15:00 PM   
BarracudaHockey



Posts: 10810
Joined: 7/13/2003
From: Orange Park, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjon


quote:

ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Swap servos, throw the tail mount in the trash, and put it in the canopy.

So you don't think the push-pull collective is worth while?

Nope. The review chopper was built that way because I have to make them stock but on my Titans I throw the push pull and the tail servo mount in a box for spare parts.

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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/4/2008 8:14:51 PM   
rcmacchipilot



Posts: 64
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: CanberraACT/SA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		hmm, i guess is should investigate moving my tail servo up the front then. is there a link that shows how to move the servo up to the front.

(in reply to BarracudaHockey)
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RE: Tail Trouble - I'm stumped! - 7/4/2008 8:39:32 PM   
rcjon


 

Posts: 608
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Macon, GA, USA
Status: offline 		If you have a Titan, it came with the tail control rod linkage to reach to the front. From Page 25 of the manual, it looks like you put the collective servo in the 2nd hole from the top and the rudder servo in the 3rd.

There are a couple of guides on the side of the frame to route the linkage through.

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