YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report  
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YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/2/2008 3:24:52 PM   
atul123


 

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From: Los Gatos, CA, USA
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Hi All:

Before you flame me, do note that it is impossible here in Banalore, India to get 100% pure Methanol any more: by regulation, one can only get Methanol that already has 10% castor mixed in. Nitro is also of varying quality and costs $200/gallon (about $50/litre). Based on this, one can basically purchase a brand new YS 110 every 70 flights or so if one runs on FAI fuel, so that's the reason for this approach.

Here are the results of running the brand new YS-110 on FAI fuel (the recommended YS fuel is between 15% and 30% nitro).

The Engine was brand new. A beautiful piece of engineering one must say.

On straight fuel (FAI: 78% Methanol, 10% castor, 12% synthetic), the result were as follows (with a 15x6 prop to run-in)

The engine started on the first flick : no problems

Took it up to 4,000 RPM and ran it for 3-4 mins; no problems

maxed out the throttle for 10 secs : great transition; set high-speed needle to 1 1/3 turns (up from 1;25 to 1.33 basicallhy); came back to 4000 RPM (apparently this is recommended by Troy and other YS Experts). At this point, the engine started LOADING UP.

Closed the regulator 1/8 turn; marked improvement in transition; took engine up to max RPM for 10 secs (about 9500 - but it was 6 PM so the tach was not working well in the dying sunlight for some reason); came back down; much LESS loading up now

Closed the regulator another 1/8 turn; this time, the transition was even better and on coming back to 4,000 RPM, there was no more loading up!

Started setting the idle: about 2300 RPM (yet to be fully verified). Engine started loading up a bit, Leaned out low-speed needle the idle was too rich, so had to lean it out by a 1/4 turn

Result: the engine continued to run well. Ran a 12 oz tank for about 11 mins. Not bad! With ZERO nitro, the engine runs well enough. With Nitro, the engine will likely run smoother and one can likely get 400 to 500 RPM more and turn a bigger prop. But that's not my goal. The goal is to enjoy the YS power with 500 less RPM on a smaller model!

Cleanup: stopped engine after 2 tanks (had to run errands after that), and had a helper remove the blue tubing and clean out the engine (to prevent Castor Oil gunk from clogging the engine), with Kerosene (Airplane fuel).

Conclusion: YS Engines run great on no nitro. They are truly beautiful engines. Just follow Troy's run-in instructions and you can't go wrong. Zero Nitro definitely gives one less power and it takes time to set the needles properly, but the fact is that it does work. One has to keep it rich and follow the advise on running at 4,000 RPM and adjusting the regulator. I cannot understand why YS does not put this basic running information into its manuals!!

atul


       Post #: 1

RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/2/2008 3:47:15 PM   
petec



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From: Beaver Falls, PA, USA
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Other than cleaning the engine out with kerosene (petroleum products are bad for the silicone parts in the engine) I have to applaud you for taking the time to get the engine running on FAI fuel.

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RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/2/2008 9:03:23 PM   
atul123


 

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From: Los Gatos, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petec

Other than cleaning the engine out with kerosene (petroleum products are bad for the silicone parts in the engine) I have to applaud you for taking the time to get the engine running on FAI fuel.


Pete: actually, I ensured that the silicone parts of the engine were taken off before the engine was cleaned out.

The FAI stuff seems to work well. I only had time to run the engine twice (two tank fulls). Very nice engine indeed - the technology is cool. I'm sure that once it loosens up it will be fine!

atul

(in reply to petec)
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RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/2/2008 9:51:32 PM   
mjfrederick


 

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Your report pretty much confirms what I would have expected as far as necessary adjustments. Thanks for the detailed report, atul.

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RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/2/2008 10:00:57 PM   
atul123


 

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From: Los Gatos, CA, USA
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Thanks. The information on Troy's blog helped a lot. YS Engines are pretty easy to tune (at least when new!) once you follow the "4000 RPM check" method, IMHO and then do essentially the same check with the LS needle. Things get a little confusing sometimes because there are three variables to manage (Regulator, HS and LS needles).

I still do have to run the engine several times more on the bench (mainly because the model for it is not ready yet!). The LS needle still needs adjustment. The point however is that the engine is fun to tune, has a great sound, exhibits very good transition (which will doubtlessly be better with more Nitro - but is still very good anyhow) and above all is an Engineering Marvel.

Atul

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       Post #: 5

RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/3/2008 12:17:40 PM   
MOTORMAN37



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atul123
First off, applaud you for trying the FAI fuel. Second, I wonder if you took the engine completely apart to remove all of the orange (SILOCONE O-RINGS). Did you use all new gaskets to reasemble the engine then. The Silocone goes alot farther into the engine than just the regulator. You would have been better off to flush the engine with straight alcohol, and then lube it with a little YS safe oil (Mobil 1 0-20) is known to be YS friendly. There is at least 5 or 6 o-rings that are Silocone (orange) besides the regulator. The Kerosene which you stated you used, will wick into and conpromise the silocone seals after you run it. I would dismantle the complete engine, clean with alcohol or glowfuel, and reasemble with new orings and gasket's. This is the same thing that YS or Troy would tell you to do.

< Message edited by MOTORMAN37 -- 7/3/2008 12:22:19 PM >

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RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/3/2008 2:17:01 PM   
atul123


 

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From: Los Gatos, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MOTORMAN37

atul123
First off, applaud you for trying the FAI fuel. Second, I wonder if you took the engine completely apart to remove all of the orange (SILOCONE O-RINGS). Did you use all new gaskets to reasemble the engine then. The Silocone goes alot farther into the engine than just the regulator. You would have been better off to flush the engine with straight alcohol, and then lube it with a little YS safe oil (Mobil 1 0-20) is known to be YS friendly. There is at least 5 or 6 o-rings that are Silocone (orange) besides the regulator. The Kerosene which you stated you used, will wick into and conpromise the silocone seals after you run it. I would dismantle the complete engine, clean with alcohol or glowfuel, and reasemble with new orings and gasket's. This is the same thing that YS or Troy would tell you to do.


Motorman: Ah! I did not know that Silicone goes further into the engine. I've only cleaned the engine once with Kerosene (a couple of flushes). I'll start using Alcohol the next time around. The only idea was to clean out the Castor deposits. I'm trying hard to get pure Methanol here so that I can mix it with pure synthetic. I think dismantling the engine might be too much overkill. ALso, the "experiment" is not over as yet: there's still plenty more running-in and also flying to do!

Thanks for the tip anyway. I guess Kerosene is out!

atul

(in reply to MOTORMAN37)
       Post #: 7

RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/4/2008 8:28:57 PM   
atul123


 

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From: Los Gatos, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MOTORMAN37

atul123
First off, applaud you for trying the FAI fuel. Second, I wonder if you took the engine completely apart to remove all of the orange (SILOCONE O-RINGS). Did you use all new gaskets to reasemble the engine then. The Silocone goes alot farther into the engine than just the regulator. You would have been better off to flush the engine with straight alcohol, and then lube it with a little YS safe oil (Mobil 1 0-20) is known to be YS friendly.


Motorman: Your advise is needed on whether any cleaning at all is needed with the Castor/Synthetic mix.

Downunder (from Australia) posted the following on another thread in the YS-zero-nitro discussion:


It's generally accepted that a mix of synthetic and castor is all that's needed to keep any carbon deposits down. A friend of mine runs his Saitos on zero nitro (with much raised compression though) and uses castor with a little synthetic (90/10 castor/synthetic) to keep it clean inside. Washing the castor out of the crankcase isn't a good idea though because it's an excellent rust preservative (after run oil if you like) and it takes a very long time for it to start getting sticky, many months.


The above post seems to say that if one uses 10% castor and 12% synthetic then the deposits of castor should not develop and that Castor serves as an "after run oil" (!). I can say that after the 2-tank first-run, the engine seemed reasonably clean and non-sticky (at least in comparison to my JETT running 20% castor and no Synthetic). So the blend seems a lot less sticky than the "pure castor".

What are your thoughts? Should I clean out the engine at all? Perhaps I could simply use the same glow fuel to clean it out after a day's run?

Any advise is appreciated!

atul

(in reply to MOTORMAN37)
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RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/4/2008 9:49:30 PM   
nonstoprc



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Thanks for sharing the FAI fuel experience. Please let us know how the engine behaves during and after break-in.

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RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/5/2008 1:55:45 AM   
togatoga


 

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I've been running 5% nitro on one of my 110 in a sport plane since new. Engine runs OK but power goes down a fair bit and so does torque. As such the transition is a kinda laggy so I've resorted to using a much smaller prop size. Other than that, the engine runs fine with a good idle. The engine was designed for higher nitro and as such the regulator and needle settings are way off.I have however abandoned the idea and am going back to at least 15 to 20% nitro. There's just no "kick" !!

Atul- use a 17% synthetic / 3% castor mix. Bangalore is one of my favourite Indian cities, nice cool weather. Do you guys still fly at the old airfield?

< Message edited by togatoga -- 7/5/2008 1:59:35 AM >

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RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/5/2008 5:59:33 AM   
atul123


 

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From: Los Gatos, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: togatoga

I've been running 5% nitro on one of my 110 in a sport plane since new. Engine runs OK but power goes down a fair bit and so does torque. As such the transition is a kinda laggy so I've resorted to using a much smaller prop size. Other than that, the engine runs fine with a good idle. The engine was designed for higher nitro and as such the regulator and needle settings are way off.I have however abandoned the idea and am going back to at least 15 to 20% nitro. There's just no "kick" !!

Atul- use a 17% synthetic / 3% castor mix. Bangalore is one of my favourite Indian cities, nice cool weather. Do you guys still fly at the old airfield?


Togatoga:

What were your regulator settings? I only had to screw in the regulator slightly less than a quarter turn, and the low-speed needle was leaned out another quarter turn. I have not run a detailed analysis right but power will obviously be lower. The precise numbers need to be checked... what prop sizes did you run with the 5% nitro and what were the RPMs? Hopefully, the drop-off will not be super bad. If it is, then Nitro is the only answer! I do agree that the engine seems designed for more nitro...

I wanted to use 18% synthetic but about a month back a regulation was passed to only sell Methanol in Bangalore with 10% castor pre-mixed. This is because bootleggers were using Methanol in illicit country liquor that killed over 200 people (!!). Wild stuff.

We still fly on the old field but I've found a huge open field next to my home in Whitefield, where I've been flying in peace.

I will continue the "beta test" and publish the results. Unfortunately, been a little tied up this weekend. Back to more testing on Monday/Tuesday onwards.

atul

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RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/7/2008 9:29:32 PM   
atul123


 

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Joined: 2/14/2008
From: Los Gatos, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MOTORMAN37
The Kerosene which you stated you used, will wick into and conpromise the silocone seals after you run it. I would dismantle the complete engine, clean with alcohol or glowfuel, and reasemble with new orings and gasket's. This is the same thing that YS or Troy would tell you to do.


Motorman:

You were right about the Kerosene! Looks like it affected some of the internal parts since the engine refused to start right up today. I had to open up the regulator and clean out the o-ring, and then it started up but performance was a little erratic. After the first start the starting became more difficult and the transition started suffering, until the point where the engine would not transition at all , unfortunately. Cleaning out a YS with Kerosene has got to be the most boneheaded move in the business :-).

So basically it looks like an air-leak has developed somewhere. Most likely around the o-rings around the pushrod tubes (there are 4 of them there) and/or around the needle valves. It's clear that an air-leak is the problem.

Looks like I'll have to either get an o-ring set or send it in. Spoke to YSPartsAndService and they confirmed what you said - all o-rings have to be replaced and the regulator assembly might have to be taken apart and examined. That's not easy to do because on the 110-S the assembly is fused. So I'm going to have to send it in, though I'll try testing one more time before then...

On the brighter side, I am getting my old YS-53 exchanged for a brand new YS 63S, so the Zero Nitro experiment can continue on that new engine next week! The 110S will be back in a month or thereabouts and so flight-testing on Zero nitro has to wait for a while.

BTW - YSPartsAndService did say that the engine would run without nitro but (as expected) the performance would be considerably lower (lower pitch props, etc.).

Atul

(in reply to MOTORMAN37)
       Post #: 12

RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/8/2008 12:42:27 AM   
MOTORMAN37



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Atul,
I kinda thought it would get expensive for you. The only oils that will not hurt it are Mobil 1 synthetic car oil, and Ultra oil sold by performance specialties. I personally use Mobil 1 0w-20 weight motor oil for preserving. You can only flush the engine with methanol, denatured alcohol, or model fuel. The castor you were refering to will carbon the exhaust valve, and it will STICK A VALVE. If you thought the kerosene was expensive, don't run castor oil either. The YS's are intended to be run on 100% synthetic. If you run very small %'s (2-3% )of castor it might allow to avoid a very expensive problem for a little while. The way the fuel is transferred through the bearing's on a YS, they are not plagued by the corrosion problems of the normal 4 strokes. If you run and treat them with the fuel intended for them, you will have a much better time.
To put it into perspective, It appears as if you bought a Porsche engine intended for premium, but are trying to run E85 gas in it. The flushing with kerosene shows that you have no real experience with a YS, and the guy that helped you did not either. Try to find a club member or someone who actually knows and runs YS's, and learn from him. My 1.
10S happily spins a 15-8 on 20/20 @ 10,000 plus. I know that I am a little over the recommended 9,600 rpm's, but I like the engine to be a loaded a little less. There are many sites outthere with good advice on the careing and running. a YS is to expensive to be experementing with especially when you are a YS newbee.

< Message edited by MOTORMAN37 -- 7/8/2008 1:01:52 AM >

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RE: YS-110 - brand new - first run on FAI Fuel : report - 7/8/2008 9:08:08 AM   
atul123