Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches?

Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches?
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Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/14/2008 3:40:16 PM

newflyjfl

Posts: 26
Joined: 9/27/2004
From: Florence, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

Well I am thinking about switching to 2.4 due to a plane that I am having trouble with glitching. The plane is a wild stick 120, setup with a SPE 26cc gas engine, and Hitec 5645 on all surfaces. Also it has a drop box for a parachute. I am using a Futaba PPM receiever, and my 9Z WCII transmitter. I was wondering if 2.4 would elimintate engine caused glitches. I cannot get more than 25 feet from the model with the engine running. I have moved all the electronics around, and isolated the ignition from the RX. The system I am looking at is a Futaba 6X 2.4. I have also considered getting a Spektrum 2.4 Module for my 9Z WCII. Any help or suggestions about 2.4 would be great. Thanks, Jared

Post #: 1

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/14/2008 4:02:39 PM

onewasp

Posts: 1360
Joined: 12/11/2002
From: USA, USA
Status: offline

Entirely possible but NOT guaranteed!
The better fix is to "fix" your ignition system or replace it.

To be certain you would have to have a pretty decent profile of the ignition's spurious output. I feel fairly certain that you do not (nor would many) but the problem seems to be clearly the ignition.

While 2.4GHz may operate in that environment it really would 'mask' the problem rather than fix it.

You really need to find and correct the problem because to my knowledge others operate the SPE26 normally.

Send a PM to rcaerobob@cox.net .
Bob has first hand experience with your engine and ignition system as well as plenty of 2.4GHz experience to go with it.

_____________________________

The ground reached up and smote my airplane

(in reply to newflyjfl)

Post #: 2

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/14/2008 5:50:26 PM

codimasta

Posts: 272
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Status: offline

Going to 2.4 GHZ will get rid of electric noise...since 2.4 is above the noise level...electrical noise has no effect.
I am using a 50cc gas engine, with direct throttle connection..steel rod with metal clevis...no problems...

Codimasta
AMA 11269

(in reply to newflyjfl)

Post #: 3

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/14/2008 7:13:11 PM

mtwister

Posts: 700
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Salem , OR, USA
Status: offline

2.4 will NOT "fix" glitching, it will only band aid it. You will still have a potential failure there. It's not the recommended way of "fixing" a glitch.

(in reply to codimasta)

Post #: 4

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/14/2008 7:27:26 PM

dirtybird

Posts: 3031
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mtwister

2.4 will NOT "fix" glitching, it will only band aid it. You will still have a potential failure there. It's not the recommended way of "fixing" a glitch.

Light is simply a higher frequency radiation. Have you ever seen an RF glitch? You see the results of the glitch but not the RF that causes it. Its the same with 2.4ghz, it can't see the RF that causes it. You don't need to fix a glitch that it can't see. Its not a potential failure.

(in reply to mtwister)

Post #: 5

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/14/2008 9:49:58 PM

3D_Junkie

Posts: 182
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: League City, TX, USA
Status: offline

Switching to 2.4 will not fix a noisy ignition or make it safe to fly. I had problems with my ignition running a spektrum DX7/AR7000; the plane would not respond in certain orientations at 1/4 - 1/2 Throttle.
The solution was to replace the ignition. Works great now.

(in reply to dirtybird)

Post #: 6

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/14/2008 10:24:51 PM

dirtybird

Posts: 3031
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 3D_Junkie

Switching to 2.4 will not fix a noisy ignition or make it safe to fly. I had problems with my ignition running a spektrum DX7/AR7000; the plane would not respond in certain orientations at 1/4 - 1/2 Throttle.
The solution was to replace the ignition. Works great now.

There is always an exception, but it will fix the problem in 99.9% of the time. A bad ignition can throw RF all over the place. But if you make a simple check with the engine running you will find it before you fly. The probability that it will occur in flight without previous symtoms is very slight.

(in reply to 3D_Junkie)

Post #: 7

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/15/2008 4:54:14 AM

BuschBarber

Posts: 684
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Rochester, NY, USA
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There are many causes for RF noise. I have had to deal with it over the years. I lost one airplane because I thought that PCM fixed a problem with RF noise that only manifested itself when my Cheetah 25 was running (electronic ignition). The glitch was just less noticable. Make sure you are using a Resistor plug and use Shielded wire or a Fiber Optic kill switch. When gas engines run, you have vibration and that can cause things to rub together and generate RF noise. Electric motors can cause RF noise.

On my H9 P47-150, I was getting glitching when the Fuji32ei was running. I rerouted the antenna away from servos and other wires and bundled up the wiring and kept the Rx away for pushrods and other wires.

I have never had a problem with RF noise since I switched to 2.4.

(in reply to dirtybird)

Post #: 8

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/15/2008 9:14:16 PM

newflyjfl

Posts: 26
Joined: 9/27/2004
From: Florence, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

Well it seems that there is a difference of opinions on 2.4 fixing my problem. I should also mention that the engine is new, purchased this spring at the Toledo show. I have encountered ignition related glitches in the past, but I have always been able to solve them by seperating the RX and ignition systems. No matter what I try I cannot seem to fix the issues with this plane. I was hoping for a quick fix with 2.4, but now I am unsure that it is the answer. I was also wondering about range checking 2.4 systems? How does it work? Does anyone ever have range issues? Jared

(in reply to BuschBarber)

Post #: 9

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/15/2008 9:55:51 PM

dirtybird

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Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
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I am sure that if you go to 2.4 it will fix your problem and it will not recur. If I was your dealer I would give you an ironclad guarantee.
The system I use has a button on the RF module that you push. For a range check you remove the antenna and push the button. You should get 50 ft range.I checked my system in the begining at all 360 degree positions around the airplane. It exceeded 50 ft in all cases. I have had it a year and 1/2 and flown it in airplanes from a 60 in glow powered P51 to a 77" gas biplane powered by a BME100. I have never had a glitch that was not my own fault.
If you have a friend that has a 2.4 borrow it and try it. You don't have to fly it, just range check it. You will be convinced.
2.4 is simply a better system than the 72MHZ systems we had.

(in reply to newflyjfl)

Post #: 10

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/15/2008 10:20:40 PM

3D_Junkie

Posts: 182
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: League City, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

quote:

ORIGINAL: 3D_Junkie

Switching to 2.4 will not fix a noisy ignition or make it safe to fly. I had problems with my ignition running a spektrum DX7/AR7000; the plane would not respond in certain orientations at 1/4 - 1/2 Throttle.
The solution was to replace the ignition. Works great now.

There is always an exception, but it will fix the problem in 99.9% of the time. A bad ignition can throw RF all over the place. But if you make a simple check with the engine running you will find it before you fly. The probability that it will occur in flight without previous symtoms is very slight.

I will also tell you that my "glitching" problems did not occur during a ground range check (both with the engine running and not, also engine running at different power levels.) The interference I was getting would only manifest during flight.
Switching to 2.4 is not the cure for RF interference, reducing the RF output is. Switching to 2.4 only covers up the problem so that 99.9% of people don't realize there is a problem.

(in reply to dirtybird)

Post #: 11

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/15/2008 11:40:03 PM

dirtybird

Posts: 3031
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline

I am not saying that your problem cannot occur but I will say it is very unlikely. I can think of a number of things that could cause your problem that are not related to the system used. Antenna orientation is one. There are others.
2.4 ghz is much higher frequency than 72mhz. This makes the RF interference much easier to shield. Capacitive reactance of a capacitor is inversely proportional to the frequency. Every conductor has some capacitance. It don't take much to short out a frequency of 2.4GHZ. This make it almost immune to generated interference of the kind existing in our aircraft. Its not just covering up the problem its grounding it out.
Every innovation has its detractors. I can remember when the reed fliers would not use proportional systems.
Some have a financial interest, some are stubborn, and some just cannot grasp new ideas.

(in reply to 3D_Junkie)

Post #: 12

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/16/2008 4:17:32 AM

mtwister

Posts: 700
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Salem , OR, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

I am not saying that your problem cannot occur but I will say it is very unlikely. I can think of a number of things that could cause your problem that are not related to the system used. Antenna orientation is one. There are others.
2.4 ghz is much higher frequency than 72mhz. This makes the RF interference much easier to shield. Capacitive reactance of a capacitor is inversely proportional to the frequency. Every conductor has some capacitance. It don't take much to short out a frequency of 2.4GHZ. This make it almost immune to generated interference of the kind existing in our aircraft. Its not just covering up the problem its grounding it out.
Every innovation has its detractors. I can remember when the reed fliers would not use proportional systems.
Some have a financial interest, some are stubborn, and some just cannot grasp new ideas.

Well I fly 2.4, so I do grasp the new ideas, but I will tell you that you still CAN get interference when running 2.4. How hard is it really to actually fix the problem correctly, and having a completely assured state of mind when you do fly it, as compared to band aiding it and being in fear? Your choice.

(in reply to dirtybird)

Post #: 13

RE: Will 2.4 fix engine caused glitches? - 7/16/2008 5:43:41 AM

BuschBarber

Posts: 684
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline

I mentioned that I have an H9 P47-150, Fuji 32 gas engine, XP9303 with Spektrum module, and AR9000 receiver with one Remote receiver.

I was flying it recently and it suddenly rolled rapidly to the Right. It is the first time I have encountered a suspected glitch with 2.4. No wind or other weather factors that might have caused the aircraft to roll like that. I rolled back to level, dropped the gear, and landed. I forgot to connect the Flight Log before turning off the radio. I did range checks, on the ground, and hooked up the Flight Log. I had over 720 fades on one antenna, over 200 fades on the other antennas, and 5 holds. The AR9000 was in the belly of the plane and the Remote receiver was on the side of the fuse