super stick droppin like a big ole rock!  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Beginners >> super stick droppin like a big ole rock!
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super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 1:09:19 AM   
joco1


 

Posts: 278
Joined: 8/17/2007
From: , KY, USA
Status: online 		took my hangar 9 super stick 60 back out tonight and it still drops like a rock ,i have a os max 60 on it and i balanced it just like the manual said i added 3oz of weight to the tail to get it balanced and did the maiden last week and i had full down trim to get it to stay up and still had to hold way back on the stick ! so tonight just to see if it would help i added 2 oz of weight and didnt see much difference so i brought it back in and added 3 more oz of weight and it started to help a little it would climb too much flying into the wind and would still drop like a dang rock going down wind thats around 8 oz i have on the plane now! i have a zinger 12x7 on the front but it takes a whole lot of runway to even get airborne ! any suggestions on what im doing wrong!
       Post #: 1

RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 1:56:03 AM   
Live Wire


 

Posts: 3792
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Sterling , CO, USA
Status: offline 		joco1
Check the angle on your motor ! it should have a little down thrust. If not set right changing engine power will change angle of attack. Full power will climb and idle will drop like a rock

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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 2:14:34 AM   
joco1


 

Posts: 278
Joined: 8/17/2007
From: , KY, USA
Status: online 		how do i adjust it ? the engine some way or the mount?

(in reply to Live Wire)
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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 2:56:00 AM   
brett65



Posts: 1075
Joined: 12/21/2007
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Put washers under the front mounting bolts of the engine or under the bottom engine bracket bolts.

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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 3:29:18 AM   
Campgems


 

Posts: 1928
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brett65

Put washers under the front mounting bolts of the engine or under the bottom engine bracket bolts.


Never put washers under the enging lugs. It stresses the metal because it can't lock down flat and a medium hard engine strike can crack the lug or in an extreme case crack the crank case. Use you washers between the motor mount and the firewall to adjust thrust.

I have an old quicke 500 and I was using a 40-45 Dave Brown motor mount on it. My OS 40 ws a little tight between the lugs, but It would pull down OK. I shattered two of these motor mounts with nothing harder than a prop strike, one on a dead stick. I finally ground out the inside of the mount so the engine sat flat on the lugs without any pressure. I later took a hit that ripped the firewall out but the engine and motor mount were not damaged. Pre stressing the mount and/or engine by providing a non flat mounting surface will result in damaged that would otherwise be absorbed by the entire airframe and basicly shook off.

The wood of the firewall will easilly bend and distort, and not fail like a harder material, like the DB motor mount, or the crank case like my Saito 45 did.

Don

(in reply to brett65)
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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 4:12:10 AM   
horace315



Posts: 697
Joined: 9/23/2003
From: va beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		that's so strange,my super stick the last one i got is about 2 years old now and i have had two of them and they both came out tale heavy.there was an amendment that a fella brought out to the field showing where the balance point was 5/8 further back than the instructions.even that amount wouldn't be affecting yours like you say.the first one i had i added about 9oz to the front under the fuel tank.
the second one i added a fiberglass engine mount to it by dubro and also put an os91fx on it,which the weight between that engine and the 61 was almost the same.i moved the 91 out on the mount rail until i got the balance point i wanted.that's with the radio equipment moved as far forward as i could get it too.i also cut lightning holes in the vertical and horizontal stabilizers.even the first one flew with not a lot of problem it came in a little fast,the second one fly's beautifully.what you have explained sounds like to me the balance is too far back.

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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 4:47:22 AM   
joco1


 

Posts: 278
Joined: 8/17/2007
From: , KY, USA
Status: online 		i see no down thrust at all it appears perfectly straight is this a common problem that i should try to fix or should i try to do some balancing at a different point the plane flys great until you let off the stick and then it just drops really fast horace if this was your stick where would you start!!!!!!!!

(in reply to horace315)
       Post #: 7

RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 4:14:37 PM   
spiral_72



Posts: 511
Joined: 3/7/2007
From: Chesnee, SC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joco1
i added 3oz of weight to the tail to get it balanced
i had full down trim to get it to stay up and still had to hold way back on the stick!
.......added 5 oz more.....it started to help a little it would climb too much flying into the wind and would still drop like a dang rock going down wind thats around
.......i have a zinger 12x7 on the front but it takes a whole lot of runway to even get airborne ! any suggestions on what im doing wrong!


This doesn't make sense. You added 8oz of tail weight! The plane should do nothing but hover. If the plane requires 8oz of tail weight just to improve, something is very wrong.

As a guess, I think you are compounding your problems now. I think the plane is rediculous tail heavy now, with a ton of down thrust on the engine.

Check the tail and wing incidence with a long straight edge. You might find the horizontal stab is off with respect to the wing.
Second, make absolutely sure you understand where the manual says the CG is at. Sometimes it's called out from the leading edge, sometimes from the spar.
Third, get the plane high ASAP and cut the throttle upwind. With the engine at idle, it should glide, slowly losing altitude. The glide test will be very important because it eliminates the motor and thrust angle from the problems leaving only the airframe. If the plane glides at idle, you problem is the engine setup.

...or find someone that's an experienced flyer. If you figure this out on your own though, you'll have learned very valuable experience.

.....also, in a perfect world all your controls will be centered. It gives you something to strive for.

< Message edited by spiral_72 -- 7/22/2008 8:23:11 PM >

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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 4:30:30 PM   
brett65



Posts: 1075
Joined: 12/21/2007
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Just a thought, are you sure that the elevator is trimmed for level flight or is it giving down elevator when the stick is at neutral? Sounds like it needs a mechanical adjustment or something.

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(in reply to spiral_72)
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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 8:18:24 PM   
joco1


 

Posts: 278
Joined: 8/17/2007
From: , KY, USA
Status: online 		maybe thats my problem this is the first plane ive had that called for the cg to be from the back of the main spar, it calls for 1/8 inch from rear of main spar i had to ask on here about that and got some good pics of the same and felt confident that i was doing it right but maybe i didnt ! can anyone shed a little more light on this measurement, like what it may be from the leading edge(hangar 9 super stick 60) and while we are on this subject, why arent all planes cg measured from the leading edge of the wing instead of some being from the spar? also im a newbie here but i didnt realize that you can add too much weight to the rear and make it heavy in the front like that seems like i learn simple things that are very important about this great hobby every day! i would like to figure it out myself like you said spiral it would help to learn alot more!! thanks for all the help so far!!!

(in reply to spiral_72)
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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 8:49:05 PM   
flyX


 

Posts: 628
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: el centro, CA, USA
Status: offline 		well I thing it dosn't matter how big or small an object is...they'll fall out of the sky at the same rate.

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       Post #: 11

RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 8:50:31 PM   
spiral_72



Posts: 511
Joined: 3/7/2007
From: Chesnee, SC, USA
Status: offline 		The manual says:

An important part of preparing the aircraft for flight is
properly balancing the model. Don’t inadvertently
neglect this step. The recommended C.G. (Center of
Gravity) location for the first flights with the Super
Stick is 1/8" behind the main spar of the wing (the
main spar spans the length of the wing underneath the
back edge of the wing sheating).
If necessary, add weight to either the tail or nose until
the correct balance is achieved. Stick-on weights are
available at your local hobby shop and work well for
this purpose.

So, I like to lay the plane upside down, measure my recommended cg location on both wings. I'll mark it with a fine tipped marker. I also like to use a hot glue gun and make a small dot that I can feel. Now, I TRY to do this on a wing rib, because it gives you a surface under the covering that doesn't flex and could throw off the CG slightly.

Like the manual says: the main spar spans the length of the wing underneath the back edge of the wing sheating
So find the spar, find the rear edge of the spar (you can feel this as a corner) and measure 1/8" back. Make your mark (or hot glue dot)

You'll need a helper to hold the other wing so it gives you a better look at the plane's side and the nose / tail. I built a PVC thing with two vertical poles with a cap, so I can set my plane on it and stand back. You want the nose slightly lower than level. Use a tapemeasue. Maybe 1/4" lower than level. Add weight or move stuff around untill it balances. Do this with the tank empty if the tank is in front of, or on the CG (which I'm pretty sure it is.)

Center all your throws and center all your trims. You'll probably have to adjust the servo arms or pushrod length, if you haven't done this already.

Fill it up and launch it! Get high quick and do the glide test.

And don't worry, I learned all this junk about 1 year ago.

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Wasn't that cool? I meant to do it.

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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 7/22/2008 9:13:34 PM   
spiral_72



Posts: 511
Joined: 3/7/2007
From: Chesnee, SC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joco1

.........i didnt realize that you can add too much weight to the rear and make it heavy in the front like that.............


I'm not sure what you mean here, but from reading it, that's not a true statement. Adding weight in the tail (moving the CG back) makes the plane more responsive, and raises the nose to the point it's impossible to fly. While adding weight to the nose (moving the CG forward) makes it less responsive, lowers the nose, increases your stall speed to the point it falls at anything less than 100mph.

Those are extreme examples, but it gives you an idea of the tendancies (SP?) before and after the CG.

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Wasn't that cool? I meant to do it.

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RE: super stick droppin like a big ole rock! - 8/2/2008 3:05:45 AM   
TedMo


 

Posts: 386
Joined: 6/11/2006
From: Sun City Center, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I'm a bit late in replying to this but have to try and understand what has been said. from what I read you say you have full down trim to get it to stay up????And still had to hold way back on the stick??? Something screwy here full down trim and full up on stick??? I just can't figure this out Adding weight to tail to get it to b