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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 11/6/2010 3:21 PM   
dhal22


 

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Status: offline 		Robert, best of luck on the maiden flight.

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 11/6/2010 9:23 PM   
pitstop000



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quote:

ORIGINAL: dhal22

Robert, best of luck on the maiden flight.


Same here!

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 11/7/2010 7:04 AM   
KLXMASTER14



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From: Simi Valley, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Epilogue

For a flight report, see here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10119606/tm.htm

The Vertigo is finished. This has been a rewarding experience that has exceeded any and all expectations. First, I want to thank a few people (ok, I know that it is not the academy awards...) First, thanks to RCU for giving us this space to give a living dimension to out beloved Classic Pattern, and the space to do this thread. Next to my friend Crankpin, who is clearly the coolest guy in classic pattern today, without your help, this project would not have become the unqualified success that it is. Also LS171malibu and George Pruitt for helping me scrounge together enough part to make this build possible. And thank you to all of my Classic Pattern brothers for your help in establishing the SPA legal status of this design, as well as all of your encouragement and suggestions over the course of this build. Witout this Cyber-brotherhood, classic pattern would be little more than a concept in some folks minds.

The final weight of the airplane is 8-1/4 pounds. I would have been happy with 8-1/2 pounds, this is extra gravy in the pot. The airplane took some up trim, but there were no other glaring trim issues. It is light and responsive on the controls, and not only lives up to my expectations derived from memory, but far exceeds them in every aspect.

The airplane is done, but the story is far from over. We all know that these things are never finished per se, there will be ongoing tweaks and improvements. I will continue to post as I make any noteworthy modifications or additions to the airplane. Flight related stuff will be posted in the above linked thread. If anyone out there is building one of these aircraft, and have any questions, please do not hesitate to PM me. I will be happy to render any assistance that I can.

Thanks for joining me in this little trip to reach back into the past and bring it back to life.

Best regards,
Robert Fish

Photos: White Vertigo: 1976, age 13 (Just a kid). RE/White Vertigo: 2010, age 47 (old fat guy).

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 11/7/2010 1:14 PM   
crankpin


 

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Status: offline 		Congrat's Robert, well done.

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 11/8/2010 4:56 AM   
R_G



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Status: offline 		Excellent job, Robert! Now the real FUN starts!

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Wanna hover? Fly a heli!

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 1/8/2011 12:23 PM   
ChiefK



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Status: offline 		Robert,

I am working on a foam wing for a Deception build. The wing is sheeted but not joined and I need to cut out the ailerons. I note that you used a table saw to trim the LE of your wing. I also have a table saw but most people recommend the use of a band saw. I don't have a band saw. Can the table saw be made to make a clean and very accurate cut through the sheeting and foam? If so, what kind of blade would you recommend?

Any advice will be appreciated.

Greg

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 1/9/2011 3:04 AM   
KLXMASTER14



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Status: offline 		Greg,
From your description, I am going to assume that the wing is sheeted back to the trailing edge, and the ailerons will be cut free, then caps will be glued on to the wing and aileron for hinging. If this is accurate, here is what I recommend:

Make sure that the trailing edge is finished to it's correct dimension chord-wise. By this, I mean that where the sheeting meets at the TE is trimmed straight and to the correct chord dimension, root and tip. This is important because this is where the wing will slide along the saw guide. I recommend cutting the TE back a bit, then gluing a cap onto the TE, then shaping it to match the airfoil. Sheeting that meets at the TE may delaminate. The cap will prevent this, and is a better structure. The TE will be much stiffer, and this is a good thing for the ailerons. 1/4" will suffice.

Next, mark off the cuts to be made. You will have to make two cuts, one to separate the actual aileron, and then another cut off of the wing that is equal to the two hinge cap thicknesses.

Set the guide bar for the dimension of the aileron minus the cap. set the wing on the foam shuck (that the cores were cut from) and sight down the lines that you laid out to verify the setting. This is the measure twice part of cut once. It is all about set-up.

Make the cut to separate the aileron. Re-set the guide bar and make the second cut for the caps. The table saw will give you a nice straight and clean cut. It should take just a kiss with the sanding block to prepare the surfaces for their caps.

As far as the blade, it is a carbide toothed plywood blade. There was no special preference, it just happened to be on the saw at the time. If you have a dust collector hook-up, use it, or you will have styrofoam "snow" all around.

The reason that I was trimming the leading edges was that they were a "wrap-around" style of leading edge, I.E. the sheeting simply wraps around the curve and presto, instant leading edge. I prefer to have a solid cap for my LE, it is more work, however is is far more dent resistant, and rarely have I seen cores cut without wire "trail", rendering a gap between the sheeting and the cores in the middle. The above method was used very successfully, and the rest as they say, is history.

-Robert



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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 7/4/2011 11:46 PM   
jsanchez581


 

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Status: offline 		 Really this plane looks very nice.... does any one have an idea how can I get one of these kits??

Thanks!


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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 7/7/2011 3:43 AM   
KLXMASTER14



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jsanchez581

 Really this plane looks very nice.... does any one have an idea how can I get one of these kits??

Thanks!



Jorge,

Check your e-mail.

-Robert

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 6/5/2012 8:45 PM   
KLXMASTER14



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Status: offline 		Bump for Freddie S.

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 6/5/2012 10:57 PM   
freddy s


 

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Status: offline 		Nice build thread,extremely informative especially as i am quite the novice,with these type of planes.Will refer to it alot i'm sure,thanks again

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 6/9/2012 2:41 PM   
BR1


 

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Status: offline 		Is the Vertigo II being kitted again? Please tell me yes I had one back in the day and would love to build another. I wish I could open your pictures on RCU but it just reads loading no pictures.

Thanks

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 6/10/2012 6:18 AM   
KLXMASTER14



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Status: offline 		BR1,
I am working on that, I have cores, and a fuse plug. It should be finished about the time hell freezes over. I will keep you on the list, pray for frosty ground.

-Robert

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 12/23/2012 3:38 AM   
KLXMASTER14



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Status: offline 		Progress report

The Vertigo is just over two years old, and has accumulated 70 flights, for a total of 10 hours and 40 minutes of flight time. At eight hours, I switched out the Magnum .61 XLS for an O.S. .65 AX. It has been in two contests, and took second in Master's at Lancaster.

As with any high performance vehicle, it is starting to show some wear and tear. The Elevator linkage has developed a lot of slop. The Robart ball joint horns seemed like a good idea, but unfortunately it turns out that hey are not up for the job. I replaced them with some Hangar 9 horns (the same ones that hey use on the P-7) as they have an almost identical screw pattern.

While I was replacing the horns, I found that the bottom rudder hinge was broken. I used some old school Klett hinges, so I was able to remove the hinge pins and take the rudder off. That saved a lot of work. I doubled up the hinges at the bottom like I should have done in the first place, I should not have any more trouble with them.

The source of the mystery oil that was appearing all over the nose turned out to be a cracked header. I'm lucky that it did not fail completely in flight. I ordered a replacement item, I may see about having the old one welded up and keep it in stock for a spare.

The RX battery was no longer holding a charge, so it was also replaced. A battery cycler is a worthwhile investment. It more than pays for itself with the first airplane it saves.

Now she is all good again, ready for the 2013 season.

-Robert

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/1/2013 1:09 AM   
SprinklerTech



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Status: offline 		With Robert's blessings I am hijacking his thread
A friend wants to make a mold of his Vertigo II and I picked up the fuselage last weekend at the SPA West opener. It's the golden colored (age) single 6 oz layer of glass. As soon as I saw it I knew the vertical stab was going to be bent and sighting down the fuselage confirmed this. I have a P6 with the same problem. I don't know what happens to them, is the wood in the V. stab. warping? Is it the shrinking of the polyester resin (probably).

So now begins the repair process. I told Steve you will never know it was molded...well I lied there
I'll try to bend the stab back the other direction and reglue a split in the balsa in the TE of the V. stab.
Next I may fill the tail with Hydrostone so I can apply finishing putty to the stab and correct it.



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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/1/2013 3:14 AM   
SprinklerTech



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Status: offline 		Here's some eye candy. Note: the Dirty Birdy wing chord is about 1/4" short and the airfoil is a bit thicker and has a straight TE instead of the swept TE of the Vertigo.

What you can't see is that the V stab. curves to the right as well as being bent to the right. Hey, it looks like an Orca with it's dorsal fin bent over

Tim


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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/3/2013 2:07 AM   
SprinklerTech



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Status: offline 		Robert, I have the same plans you do but there is no thrust angles in the engine setup. Does anyone else show any thrust angles? I doubt there is a manual for this plane either, anybody know of one?

Tim

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/3/2013 2:48 AM   
stuntflyr



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Status: offline 		Some guys like offset, some don't. I think it's a do what you like thing with most of these Classics.
Chris...


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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/3/2013 4:08 AM   
JCINTEXAS


 

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Status: offline 		Art Schroeder, who designed the Eyeball, said the ideal setup for pattern aerobatics was zero engine offset and zero wing and stab incidence. I thought he was right in the '70s...and I still think Art had it right.

Regards
JC

I don't always fly R/C...but when I do, I fly FASST. Fly well my friends.

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/3/2013 5:10 AM   
SprinklerTech



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Status: offline 		So the consensus is to set the nose at 0 and if someone wants something different they can do that.

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/3/2013 5:14 AM   
KLXMASTER14



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quote:

ORIGINAL: SprinklerTech

Robert, I have the same plans you do but there is no thrust angles in the engine setup. Does anyone else show any thrust angles? I doubt there is a manual for this plane either, anybody know of one?

Tim


Zero-zero on the engine thrust, 0 on the stab, 1/2 degree positive on the wing. The balance point on the plans is good. Contrary to today's preferred set-up, a tiny bit of positive incidence coupled with a CG that requires a small amount of forward pressure on inverted is the best set-up for these classics.

Glad to see the Vertigo thread alive again.

-Robert

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/3/2013 5:36 AM   
SprinklerTech



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Status: offline 		I used a bit of heat on the stab tonight thinking I was wasting my time but it straightened out. Now if it stays over the next couple of days we can either fill it with hydrostone using a tumbling method to get a 1/4" coat. Or I have some urethane plastic that is going to expire and that will make it solid enough to keep it from deforming while I add finishing putty to the fuselage so I can blend the dents and ridges.
I don't know why they used gobs of urethane resin and a single layer of cloth and expected it not to shift. Sure makes you appreciate those heavy white gel coat fuselages.

Tim

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/3/2013 5:47 AM   
SprinklerTech



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Status: offline 		I'll set it up 0/0 and 1/2 on the wing. Layup schedule I'm not sure of yet. I just cut some glass for the DB tonight and I'm trying 3/4 - 4 - 6 oz. Before I've used 3/4-6-6 and it came out fine. All of them are vacuumed.

With the broad fuselage I might have to use some bulking strips. I'm hoping for less than 20 oz with the wing pan...we'll see. Gotta keep focused on the mold right now.

Once I get the filler and can lock down the fuselage form warping I'll work on a wing center section so I can check the incidence before I mold the fuse.

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/3/2013 10:39 PM   
SprinklerTech



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Status: offline 		I added the polyurethane filler. Man that was hard to do to an old original fuselage but I've got to get the ripples out and I didn't want it to cave in while laying the mold.

I'll attach a picture of the poly I use. It's from a place called GT products in Grapevine, TX. It pours like thin epoxy and takes about 5 minutes to kick and about 30 minutes to harden. I rotated the fuselage till it hardened and have a max of about 1/4" wall. BTW, I got permission to do whatever to the fuselage as long as we can pull some more.

No more work for a while. I've got a Dirty Birdy to paint for the Arkansas SPA!

Tim

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RE: Vertigo II Build Thread - 5/3/2013 11:09 PM   
SprinklerTech



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Status: offline 		Here's the numbers:
Fuselage 20 oz
Wing pan 2.175 oz
Those are going to be some hard numbers to beat and get the fuselage rigid enough it won't warp later.

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