Two receivers, separate functions...

Two receivers, separate functions...
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Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/24/2008 4:43:06 AM

Darklotus

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/22/2004
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline

Hi everyone,

I'm in need of some real help. I have read just about every dual receivers post, until my eyes hurt, and have not found a answer to my question. all the posts I have read, was dealing with dual receivers for redundant purposes. I need to run two receivers, different channels, one for flight controls, and the other for auxiliary functions.

My first question is about the antennas. Can they run parallel? Or do they need to be out of phase?

There will also be 900Mhz and 2.4Ghz transmitters on-board, is there anything I should be concerned about with mounting these antennas?

The airframe I'm using is a kit bashed Senior Telemaster, so I do have some room to work with.

Any help is much appreciated,

James

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RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/24/2008 5:27:33 AM

BuschBarber

Posts: 686
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline

If you were using 72Mhz, you would not want the antennas to run parallel. They go off at an angle to one another.

If you are using two 2.4Ghz receivers, it should not matter how they are oriented to one another. Will the 2.4Ghz receivers have satellite receivers, as well, as in the AR7000/AR9000?

(in reply to Darklotus)

Post #: 2

RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/24/2008 6:16:14 AM

Campgems

Posts: 1936
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: offline

James, your parallel 72mhz antennas shouldn't be a problem as long as they are a few inches apart. No different than running one along a pull-pull rudder setup.

The on board Tx shouldn't be an issue either. About the only thing that would cause interference is EMI bleading into a servo signal. Not likely with your setup. If you are running an ignition engine, that may be something to look at, but it wouldn't matter if you had one or two receivers, the problem would be the same.

One thing just popped to mind, check the IF frequencys of your receivers and make sure the BFO of one receiver will not add or subtract to the Xtal and match the other receivers frequency. With a dual conversion, this shouldn't be an issue. From my old radio days, you could get a BFO (Beat Frequency Oscilator) to couple with the tuning on a near receiver and end up giving interference. With the state of art today with these receivers, I doubt very much that you would run into this though.

There are a number of very large multi engine models that run two receivers and two transmitters for full control. I haven't heard of any problems with interference.

By the way, what in the world are you doing??

Don

(in reply to Darklotus)

Post #: 3

RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/24/2008 12:11:12 PM

Darklotus

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/22/2004
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline

Thanks for the fast replies! The project is a camera ship, I have a build thread going Here
The 900Mhz is for the Eagle Tree system, and the 2.4Ghz is the A/V. I'm wanting to use the aux receiver for the camera system.

I was also wondering maybe I should run one receiver low band and the other high? The flight control receiver with be a Futaba fully synthesized system, using the WCII 9Zap and R319DPS receiver. I haven't decided on the second receiver yet, so thats up in the air.

Thanks again,

James

< Message edited by Darklotus -- 7/24/2008 12:30:48 PM >

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(in reply to Campgems)

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RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/24/2008 2:58:32 PM

Zeeb

Posts: 1853
Joined: 11/11/2004
From: Pleasant Grove, UT, USA
Status: offline

Pardon my ignorance if I've missed it, but you do realize you'll need two transmitters to do what you want?

And as to the flight control radios; there have been some issues with the 2.4GHz flight systems if the model's rx's are too close to the A/V transmitter on the model due to swamping as the A/V stuff generally puts out more power. One of our club guys who has been playing with the camera thing got his A/V system in 900MHz to avoid a possible conflict with the model's 2.4GHz flight control system. Not sure if that would cause an issue with the Eagletree system or not.

Campgems has pretty much covered the issues you might face with running on 72MHz and using two transmitters on a single model.

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Zeeb

(in reply to Darklotus)

Post #: 5

RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/24/2008 4:58:11 PM

Campgems

Posts: 1936
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darklotus

Thanks for the fast replies! The project is a camera ship, I have a build thread going Here
The 900Mhz is for the Eagle Tree system, and the 2.4Ghz is the A/V. I'm wanting to use the aux receiver for the camera system.

I was also wondering maybe I should run one receiver low band and the other high? The flight control receiver with be a Futaba fully synthesized system, using the WCII 9Zap and R319DPS receiver. I haven't decided on the second receiver yet, so thats up in the air.

Thanks again,

James

James, I just remembered that a couple years back the Sheirffs department guys were out with an electric Helocopter with a setup like you are talking about. THey were flying 72mhz and they had no issues at all. You'll have a lot more room to keep things apart, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I wouldn't worry about high / low band. In fact if you happen to stumble across the right two channels you my induce a problem. Even two ajacent channels isn't a problem. We seem to have a cluster of guys between ch 50 and ch 56 and it is not uncomon for a couple of us to be in the air at the same time on ajacent channels and not have any issues. Narrow band does that for you.

Don

(in reply to Darklotus)

Post #: 6

RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/24/2008 11:20:28 PM

Darklotus

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/22/2004
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline

Thanks again for all the help guys.

Yes I do realize I'll need another transmitter zeeb

that is the point. I want to have a camera man that can concentrate on the video and not flying. The camera system is a full 360 deg pan and 180 deg tilt, and to get the video I want requires two people.

Just to clarify the equipment:

Flight controls - Futaba 72Mhz dual conversion narrow band R319DPS receiver, and 9ZAP transmitter

auxiliary controls - Futaba 72Mhz dual conversion narrow band R168DP receiver, and 8UAP transmitter

Egale Tree system - 900Mhz 200mw Pro

Audio/ Video - Black widow 2.4 Ghz 1000mw transmitter

I'm not sure if I phrased my question right about the high/low band. I was referring to low as being channels 11 thru 35 and high being 36 thru 60. Most of the planes that I have airworthy, are running on channel 57 so I thought that I would just stick with that for the flight controls.

As far as the channels go, can I run them right next to each other, or should they be apart? like the flight controls are on 57 and the aux system on 20? Or should it matter?

Thanks again for all the help. I'm stuck with the build at this point, until I know where to mount the equipment. I do my weight and balance on paper before I mount anything on the airframe.

James

< Message edited by Darklotus -- 7/24/2008 11:22:13 PM >

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RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/24/2008 11:37:23 PM

Campgems

Posts: 1936
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
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James, just as a safety percaution, I would stay away from CH15 down. There are a couple channels down there that are near some pager channels and they spill over some. If you were to put one TX on 50 and the other on 51 that would not cause you any problems. Nor would any other two adjecent channels.

Don

(in reply to Darklotus)

Post #: 8

RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/24/2008 11:56:46 PM

Darklotus

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/22/2004
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline

Thanks for the fast replies Campgems.

I have emailed Futaba, to see what they say on the subject. I'll post what they say when I hear back from them.

Thanks,

James

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(in reply to Campgems)

Post #: 9

RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/29/2008 12:17:29 AM

Darklotus

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/22/2004
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline

Well I got a reply back from futaba today. Didn't help to much tho... This is the email I sent to them.

Hi,

I want to run two receivers on different channels. One for flight controls one for auxiliary systems.

The equipment I have is:

Flight controls - Futaba 72Mhz dual conversion narrow band R319DPS receiver, and 9ZAP transmitter

auxiliary controls - Futaba 72Mhz dual conversion narrow band R168DP receiver, and 8U transmitter

How should the antennas be mounted? In phase? Out of phase?

Should the distance between the antennas be as far apart as they can be? Or does it matter?

Can I use two channels right next to each other? Like channel 57 on the flight controls, and channel 56 on the aux system?

There will be a 2.4Ghz 1000ma transmitter, and a 900Mhz 200mw transmitter on-board the aircraft.

Should there be concern where the antennas are mounted with these systems?

Thank you for your help,

James

_____________________________

Colorado-rc.com

(in reply to Darklotus)

Post #: 10

RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/29/2008 12:19:05 AM

Darklotus

Posts: 151
Joined: 2/22/2004
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline

This is what I got back... I don't have a clue what the links she added are suppose to be for.

Thank you for your recent e-mail to us here at Futaba USA. We are always happy to hear from our fellow modelers.

Please find your answers listed in BOLD below.

Should you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us at this email address. Please be sure to copy all previous emails into any future questions. You can also reach our product support technical team at 217-398-8970, or via fax at 217-398-7721.

Please note that all of our manuals are online for your added information. Simply go to our website (www.futaba-rc.com), and click "manuals" at the bottom of the page.

Sincerely,
Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA
service@futaba-rc.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/futabaowners/

>>> <j_overman@colorado-rc.com> 7/24/2008 5:54 PM >>>
Hi,

I want to run two receivers on different channels. One for flight controls one for auxiliary systems.

The equipment I have is:

Flight controls - Futaba ( http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=96 ) 72Mhz dual conversion ( http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=5874 ) narrow band R319DPS receiver, and 9ZAP transmitter

auxiliary controls - Futaba 72Mhz dual conversion narrow band R168DP receiver, and 8U transmitter
How should the antennas be mounted? As normally mounted, but away from each other. In phase? Out of phase? Some people run multiple receivers in large/expensive models so that they have what they feel to be redundancy if one receiver fails. Usually they run the ailerons and elevators from one side of the aircraft to one receiver, and the ailerons and elevators to the other side of the aircraft to a second receiver. The other functions are plugged into one or the other of the two receivers . The idea is that if one receiver fails, the other should still work and allow the aircraft to be recovered. Some modelers use devices that allow you to connect all the channels to both receivers , and the device uses only one receiver until it fails and then switches the controls to the second receiver.

Should the distance between the antennas be as far apart as they can be? Or does it matter?

Can I use two channels right next to each other? Like channel 57 on the flight controls, and channel 56 on the aux system? You MUST use only one channel as your transmitter will only transmit on channel....

There will be a 2.4Ghz 1000ma transmitter, and a 900Mhz 200mw transmitter on-board the aircraft. We are not sure how you are planning on controlling both systems separately, as you will need two transmitters.

Should there be concern where the antennas are mounted with these systems? If you are using our FASST receivers, the usual 90 degree and as far from each other as possible.

Thank you for your help,

James

_____________________________

Colorado-rc.com

(in reply to Darklotus)

Post #: 11

RE: Two receivers, separate functions... - 7/29/2008 3:29:17 AM

Campgems

Posts: 1936
Joined: 2/18/2006
From: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darklotus

This is what I got back... I don't have a clue what the links she added are suppose to be for.

Thank you for your recent e-mail to us here at Futaba USA. We are always happy to hear from our fellow modelers.

Please find your answers listed in BOLD below.

Should you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us at this email address. Please be sure to copy all previous emails into any future questions. You can also reach our product support technical team at 217-398-8970, or via fax at 217-398-7721.

Please note that all of our manuals are online for your added information. Simply go to our website (www.futaba-rc.com), and click "manuals" at the bottom of the page.

Sincerely,
Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA
service@futaba-rc.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/futabaowners/

>>> <j_overman@colorado-rc.com> 7/24/2008 5:54 PM >>>
Hi,

I want to run two receivers on different channels. One for flight controls one for auxiliary systems.

The equipment I have is:

Flight controls - Futaba ( http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=96 ) 72Mhz dual conversion ( http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=5874 ) narrow band R319DPS receiver, and 9ZAP transmitter

auxiliary controls - Futaba 72Mhz dual conversion narrow band R168DP receiver, and 8U transmitter
How should the antennas be mounted? As normally mounted, but away from each other. In phase? Out of phase? Some people run multiple receivers in large/expensive models so that they have what they feel to be redundancy if one receiver fails. Usually they run the ailerons and elevators from one side of the aircraft to one receiver, and the ailerons and elevators to the other side of the aircraft to a second receiver. The other functions are plugged into one or the other of the two receivers . The idea is that if one receiver fails, the other should still work and allow the aircraft to be recovered. Some modelers use devices that allow you to connect all the channels to both receivers , and the device uses only one receiver until it fails and then switches the controls to the second receiver.

Should the distance between the antennas be as far apart as they can be? Or does it matter?

Can I use two channels right next to each other? Like channel 57 on the flight controls, and channel 56 on the aux system? You MUST use only one channel as your transmitter will only transmit on channel....

There will be a 2.4Ghz 1000ma transmitter, and a 900Mhz 200mw transmitter on-board the aircraft. We are not sure how you are planning on controlling both systems separately, as you will need two transmitters.

Should there be concern where the antennas are mounted with these systems? If you are using our FASST receivers, the usual 90 degree and as far from each other as possible.

Thank you for your help,

James

Wow, that is some impressive support.

I've thought that Bax usually had a better answers than KyKrysta does, but they both seem not to want to answer the hard ones like yours. I used to work for IBM and in the way back when, a customer asking if a competers box, IE a printer, would work OK on our mainframe resulted in the same type answer, even if we knew it worked and worked well. A big ole CYA in action.

James, I can't see any problems that will not show up during a good ground check. If you are really concerned, have a buddy put the plane in the back of a pickup and drive it a mile away and see what happens. I know you are still in design phase, but the radios, servos and the rest of your electronics are not going to know if they are in a finished plane or stuck to the side of a 2x4 for testing. I doubt you could get a mile away, but a 1/4 mile test with both the tx's and the rx's on the ground would a very good test.

Don

(in reply to Darklotus)

Post #: 12