Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I

Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I
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Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/29/2008 7:31:38 PM

flymeaway

Posts: 297
Joined: 4/20/2004
From: howell, MI, USA
Status: offline

I've debated putting this question out here for fear of looking like a complete moron, but what the heck...

I have a CA Models 27% Extra in which I've had for a couple years but have relatively little flight time on it for various reasons, one of them is it's honestly intimidating for me to land for whatever reason.

I've flown various planes including smaller Extras, bipes, cubs, etc. and have had no problems at all in landing them. In fact, I consider myself a decent pilot when it comes to landing since most of my flights I spend half the time shooting touch and goes since I find this nearly as fun as aerobatics. While certainly not an expert, this is my fifth season flying so I consider myself beyond the novice stage.

With my 27% Extra, I find myself coming in too hot then with very little elevator input I wind up too high, which I then wind up either doing multiple go-arounds or taking up too much runway or even landing too hard (no, you can't flare 4' above the deck and expect the gear to hold up - I've glued in new LG blocks three times now).

So is it purely psychological and I'm getting the stick-jitters? Is it just a matter of forcing my way through getting the hang of a bigger airplane? Or should I put the beast in storage and go back to something I can land?

Seriously, any input would be appreciated. Maybe I'm missing a completely elementary concept.

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/29/2008 8:00:59 PM

eagledancer

Posts: 479
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline

you might concider adding expo to your elev to make it a bit softer around center

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Post #: 2

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/29/2008 8:14:57 PM

Edwin

Posts: 3439
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Leander, TX, USA
Status: online

Maybe even reduce the throws until you get comfortable with it. It might be just a setup issue. A little change in CG and throws, and the expo suggestion is good. There are menuvers you can fly to check your setup such as diving at half throttle 45deg down and go neutral on the sticks. See if it steepens the dive or does it want to level off. A while back I saw a thread with excellent suggestions on trim flights. Havent seen it in awhile, maybe someone here can point it out.
Edwin

(in reply to eagledancer)

Post #: 3

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/29/2008 9:17:22 PM

Jake Ruddy

Posts: 3105
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Bear, DE, USA
Status: offline

Pull 45 at good power 3/4 or so and roll inverted.. release the sticks and see what it does.. if the nose falls quickly it's nose heavy. If it holds the line or the nose climbs making the line steeper than you are tail heavy.

Sensitive elevators are normally a sign of it being too tail heavy if you have good throws. If you have 20+ degree throws on low rate then you are too high for a bigger plane. 10-15 degrees of throw is plenty.

Hope this helps

(in reply to Edwin)

Post #: 4

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/29/2008 9:52:32 PM

flymeaway

Posts: 297
Joined: 4/20/2004
From: howell, MI, USA
Status: offline

I dialed the low rates down to around 10-15° which helped a bit, now maybe a bit more expo. I'll try the 45° lines. I balanced according to factory specs, but I have a feeling I'm a bit tail heavy as it is kind of squatting through turns.

Then after a couple hundred more landings with my other planes, I'll have the nerve to try it again.

(in reply to Jake Ruddy)

Post #: 5

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/29/2008 11:07:06 PM

2robinhood

Posts: 383
Joined: 8/27/2006
From: Egg Harbor City, NJ, USA
Status: offline

Double check you CG.
Even if you need to , go a little tail heavy.
This will help it lose speed and flare.
These are videos of the same plane.
1st one is the maiden and too nose heavy.
2nd is with the CG moved back, ( and I'm gonna move it back even more ).
You will see the differance in landing speed and flare.
In the first video, I just couldn't slow it down to a speed I wanted to land.
I ended up greasing it in and blowing the tires off the rims and exploding the wheel pants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAH8BDr33ys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY68JexsJEw&feature=user

(in reply to flymeaway)

Post #: 6

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/30/2008 12:46:05 AM

Oilsands

Posts: 54
Joined: 3/31/2006
From: Fort McMurray, AB, CANADA
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I had the same feeling that your having in regard to landing. It is my 1st giant scale (H9 Extra 330L 33%) and found that I was coming in too hot and would have a hard time to land it and would have to go around to try again. Our field is fairly short with a pond at one end and knee height shrubs then tall trees at the other. I read some place that due to the larger size one thinks that it is coming in slower that it is, thus the coming in and over shooting the runway. Once I started to slow the plane down a little more (did not take much) the landings got better. As I did a few more landing like that, my confidence picked up and landings are much easier now. I am more relaxed, which makes the landing even easier and more enjoyable.

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(in reply to 2robinhood)

Post #: 7

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/30/2008 5:16:01 AM

bjor

Posts: 157
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

I'm flying a 25% G.P Extra 300 and suffered the same. I though it was nerves at first but evedently it came down to just getting familiar with the plane. I started throttling back way up high to see how much speed could be blead off whilst maintaining a landing approch. I finished up finding that I could pull back on the throttle and glide a 180 degree approch path without tip stalling. Once I was comfortable with the fact the plane was not going to fall from the sky at a bit faster than walking pace i applied the theory to practice and it worked a treat. I didn't like adding expo to elevator but I did reduce the throws some. I also found that mixing in some spoilerons helps a lot. I have about 10mm added to give me a gentle glide path and as soon as the wheels touch the deck i flick the switch to add max deflection. This holds the plane firmly on the ground and pulls it up really quick so you wont run out of strip. Whatever you try, I hope you find your comfort zone. Seems a shame to leave a nice plane in the hanger.

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If you have to bend over more than once to pick it up - it was a bad landing

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Post #: 8

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/31/2008 5:18:35 AM

SoCalSal

Posts: 986
Joined: 3/5/2005
From: spring valley , CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2robinhood

Double check you CG.
Even if you need to , go a little tail heavy.
This will help it lose speed and flare.
These are videos of the same plane.
1st one is the maiden and too nose heavy.
2nd is with the CG moved back, ( and I'm gonna move it back even more ).
You will see the differance in landing speed and flare.
In the first video, I just couldn't slow it down to a speed I wanted to land.
I ended up greasing it in and blowing the tires off the rims and exploding the wheel pants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAH8BDr33ys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY68JexsJEw&feature=user

Hi..I viewed your videos. If I may offer you a suggestion without offending you this is what my advise is....

Never start your plane without some type of restraint holding it back. I had a serious accident last year with my Yak. I almost lost my arm not to mention my life due to loss of blood when my Yak moved towards me when I was starting it and the prop cut into my arm. It took over 5 hours of surgury to kind of put my arm back togeather. Please don't take this advise as an intrusion or insult to your starting procedures, but what I saw on those videos is a very very bad accident waiting to happen.
I don't ever want somebody to get hit with the prop the way I did.

Buy the way...good flying!!

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(in reply to 2robinhood)

Post #: 9

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/31/2008 2:01:33 PM

Jake Ruddy

Posts: 3105
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Bear, DE, USA
Status: offline

A friend of a friend just had that happen to him doing the same thing!

I also have a friend that threw his 9Z into a prop coming at him because he didn't tie it down and the throttle servo wasn't closing properly.

VERY good advice there

(in reply to SoCalSal)

Post #: 10

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/31/2008 2:33:35 PM

flymeaway

Posts: 297
Joined: 4/20/2004
From: howell, MI, USA
Status: offline

I was thinking the same thing when I watched that video. I was fortunate enough to have a seasoned veteran of our club yell at me and chase me off the field when I attempted to start the plane on the runway after landing and making a radio adjustment. Good advice.

(in reply to Jake Ruddy)

Post #: 11

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/31/2008 7:27:47 PM

Super08

Posts: 505
Joined: 12/17/2007
From: Fort McMurray, AB, CANADA
Status: offline

Here are a couple of pics of the trees Oilsands was referring to. You learn to get good with your approaches. Plus the fact that it seems most of the time we are flying with a 90 degree cross wind as the prevailing wind is from the west and our field is oriented north-south. The first two pics are of him and his plane. Landing a nose heavy plane here is challenging to say the least.

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< Message edited by Super08 -- 7/31/2008 8:22:57 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/31/2008 8:05:12 PM

Edwin

Posts: 3439
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Leander, TX, USA
Status: online

What can I say, fields like that make me nervouse. We used to have power lines about 500 ft from the end of the runway. Had to approach high then sink pretty quick. Did ok until I started flying bigger planes and finally nailed the power lines. I thought the plane was shot out of the sky. I've since moved to a different club and a better setup. Not always the option though.
Edwin

(in reply to Super08)

Post #: 13

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 7/31/2008 8:06:40 PM

rcbill

Posts: 449
Joined: 2/13/2003
From: pleasant prairie, WI, USA
Status: offline

Flymeaway,
I know what you are talking about landing these larger planes. I have a 28% Edge and a 30% Yak. Our runway is 575 feet. We have corn on both ends that is 8/10 feet high. This reduces the runway a lot when coming in. Here is what I'm working on and it seems to help a lot. First like Jake Ruddy says about the CG. Second I am slowing the idle and glide path by some. Third, I added about 3/8" of up ailerons (spoilerons) on the last click on the throttle. I have 3 flight modes so when I'm ready to land I just flick the switch to my 3rd flight mode and the plane flies with the lower rates. Just after the last leg of the approch I go down to low idle and when the plane just about clears the corn coming onto the runway I go down to the last notch on the throttle and the spoilers are activated. The planes comes in much lower and sooner and I just flare and maybe just touch the throttle as to not bounce the plane on touch down. So far it works great for mel.... Bill

(in reply to flymeaway)

Post #: 14

RE: Landing Giant Scale Planes - HELP! I - 8/1/2008 3:26:21 AM

2robinhood

Posts: 383
Joined: 8/27/2006
From: Egg Harbor City, NJ, USA
Status: offline

Hey guys,
No offense taken.
I do have and