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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/14/2008 9:42 AM   
dmccormick001



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Status: offline 		You don't necessarily have to have fuel running out of the muffler for an engine to be flooded. By the time you get fuel running out of the muffler you've past "flooded" and gone all the way to "drowned"! And an engine mounted inverted is a lot easier to flood than one mounted upright. Any excess fuel runs right down on top of the glow plug, and can cool it so much that it won't start the motor. Inverted engines have to be adjusted very well to run and start dependably.

But if you can manually pump fuel into the line going to the carburator and it makes the engine start, then it sounds like your engine isn't flooded, but is too lean. What you're doing when you inject that fuel is simply priming it. Check for air leaks in the fuel system, and then I think I'd try richening the idle mixture a little by turning the screw on the pump clockwise just a fuzz.

David

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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/14/2008 2:13 PM   
tailspins


 

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Status: offline 		OK David ....

I will try that today and get back later this morning to report on the progress.

John


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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/14/2008 6:43 PM   
mjfrederick


 

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Status: offline 		OK, I mis-read what you had said, I thought you were saying fuel was dripping out the muffler. David is right though, fuel doesn't have to be dripping out the muffler for the engine to be flooded, especially on the DZ. What we've done on the new 170's that were hard to start after the first few runs is take the cover off the pump (just the part with the diaphragm) and blow into the vent line on the fuel tank. With that cover off, you should get a strong stream coming out the bottom hole on the exposed face of the pump. Check the diaphragm for alignment (just make sure it's centered) and re-assemble. If you don't get a strong steady stream, this indicates a restriction/blockage somewhere in the line before the engine.

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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/14/2008 7:07 PM   
XMANS


 

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Guys, a simplier way is to just pull the fuel line off from the pump to the carb and then blow into the tank vent or better still use your fuel pump to push some fuel through,
then you eliminate the taste of fuel in your mouth, which is poison by the way.
And you are not fiddling with a dismantled reg at the field and running the risk of getting dirt into it and reasembling it wrong or loosing bits.
I believe in the K.I.S.S. system, "keep it simple stupid".



YS SERVICE AUST

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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/14/2008 7:17 PM   
tailspins


 

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Status: offline 		Im am going out to the field in about an hour and I will do the "fuel tank restriction" test and get back to you.


I would rather not take too many things apart if possiable. Loosing or mesing up a part would put me on the down side for quite a while.

Oh....I am running a velocity stack. Does that make a big difference in how the engine runs?

John
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< Message edited by tailspins -- 8/14/2008 7:49 PM >


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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/15/2008 1:24 AM   
tailspins


 

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Status: offline 		OK/....I did the tank check and fuel squirts freely out the line. So that solves that question. I also put a new plug in it and checked the glow attachment.
It did not change anything.

What would be my next test?


John

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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/17/2008 8:23 AM   
huison2005


 

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From: BUTTERWORTHPENANG, MALAYSIA
Status: offline 		Hey.. guys .. My YS sucks again , this morning went to the flying site , strat flying....... but end up starting the engine all morning


probleum is it won't idle well ..!! it seems like rough ildle ... it idle for a few sec than start knocking n die(back-fire).........

What the earth is going wrong with this engine 'this is my 1 ys' ............ Day berore it run really well ...... but today it came back

already ....

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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/17/2008 2:43 PM   
dmccormick001



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Status: offline 		Tailspins:

Did you try richening the idle mixture just a little? I still think that if you can inject fuel into the line going to the carb and your problem goes away that indicates your setting is simply too lean.

Man, that picture of your plane sitting on the bench makes me jealous. It looks like you've got miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles around your field. Here in Tennessee our field is surrounded by trees and hills. It's beautiful, but it sure would be nice to make a long, shallow approach every once in a while. Kansas looks like it's just about perfect for R/C flying. Here's a pic from my club's field. (The trees are a little farther away than they look.)

David



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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/17/2008 2:52 PM   
dmccormick001



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Status: offline 		huison2005:

Sounds like the idle is rich. Your engine is still "breaking in", so you may have to continue to adjust it a little as you run it more to keep it running perfectly. Just don't get frustrated and chase your settings all over the place. Make small adjustments. Try leaning the idle just a bit. Also, check your glow plug and make sure it's getting good and hot (red). An engine that's breaking in will often shed itty bitty pices of metal that get stuck on the glow plug element and cause it to fail.

David

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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/17/2008 4:14 PM   
tailspins


 

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Status: offline 		Hi David..

Let me understand something.


quote:

ORIGINAL: dmccormick001

huison2005:

Sounds like the idle is rich. Your engine is still "breaking in", so you may have to continue to adjust it a little as you run it more to keep it running perfectly.




So you think I should Lean it out some then?

Yes we have a great field here in Iowa. We fly at the local airport Parallel to the grass "full size runway". We have a runway 800 X 80 feet mowed which is good enough for anything. No trees, hills or houses close

john



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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/17/2008 5:30 PM   
huison2005


 

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Status: offline 		dmccormick001 , i have change all together 4 pcs os F plug already.... is that normal for this engine to running in..??

As my friend here he has a 170 on his ASTRALXX he told me , he run only 2 tanks of fuel before intall to the plane and fly ....

2 x 600cc of fuel only ...... don't seemcs to have such probleum like me , his engine run smooth and idle well .....


He suggest i change the pump 'difrem' new one and try again ..... maybe the pump is not consisten ...!!

So what do you guys think of that .... !!

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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/19/2008 1:36 AM   
dmccormick001



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tailspins

quote:

ORIGINAL: dmccormick001

huison2005:

Sounds like the idle is rich. Your engine is still "breaking in", so you may have to continue to adjust it a little as you run it more to keep it running perfectly.




So you think I should Lean it out some then?


No, I think I've confused everybody. That suggestion was meant for huison2005. He had said...

"probleum is it won't idle well ..!! it seems like rough ildle ... it idle for a few sec than start knocking n die(back-fire)......... "

...and the comment about his engine being rich was for him. I put his name at the beginning of the post, but I think you missed it.

quote:

Yes we have a great field here in Iowa. We fly at the local airport Parallel to the grass "full size runway". We have a runway 800 X 80 feet mowed which is good enough for anything. No trees, hills or houses close

john



Now, I want to ask you a couple of things. Your field is in Iowa, not Kansas? I was assuming Kansas because of the info that shows when you post. And could you explain to me the gas cans and the battery and the power panel I see mounted on the satrting bench on the second picture you posted? Are those for fueling, or for overflow? The 110 volt recepticle, is that AC power, or DC, or what? Is it solar powered, or do you charge the battery from there? Details, please!

Those look like some really great additions to the basic bench. We've thought about doing that on a couple of our benches, but I'd like to know exactly what you did and how you did it. Any information you could give me about those things would be fantastic! (I hope you haven't patented them!)

David

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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/19/2008 1:45 AM   
dmccormick001



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quote:

ORIGINAL: huison2005

dmccormick001 , i have change all together 4 pcs os F plug already.... is that normal for this engine to running in..??


Probably not. Maybe one or two during break in, but 4 seems like too many. If the engine runs lean for more than just a few minutes, or sometimes even seconds, that can destroy a glow plug. Once you get your engine running correctly, that should stop.


quote:

He suggest i change the pump 'difrem' new one and try again ..... maybe the pump is not consisten ...!!

So what do you guys think of that .... !!


I don't think that's the problem. If you have easy access to a new pump, then by all means try it, but I wouldn't order a new one just to take a stab at the problem. These engines can be very difficult to adjust, but once you do they are very, very reliable and consistent. Be patient and make small adjustments and you may get the problems solved.

If your problem is still that it won't idle well, then try leaning the low end just slightly. Let me know if that helps, hurts, or doesn't make any difference, and then maybe either I, or somebody else on this forum, can make another suggestion as to what you can try next.

David


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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/19/2008 5:36 AM   
tailspins


 

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Status: offline 		HI David.

HA HA ......I took the basic stand that was posted a few months ago and after building two of them for the club I desided that I wanted to make one just for me with everything right there and handy.. I lowered the stand by 12 inches ( made it easier for me to crank and work on the modle) and made the deck from "Deck planks" to save weight. The fuel cans each have their own pump and are 30%,15% four stroke and 10% two stroke fuel. On the right side I have two field chargers to top off the model during rest periods and they plug into an outlet that has a 12 volt battery as the power source. On the left side I have the "power pannel" for the Glow plug which is powered by another 12 volt battery. Next to the power pannel I have a hook which the starter hangs on.
My Gas fuel has not been added yet, but it will go next to the 10% glow.

While trying to start this YS 170 I found that because of the pressure needed on the spinner it was not easy to start the motor without someone holding the YAK so I devised a holding block that works great to keep the model from moving backwards and is very easy to remove once it is ready to fly. ( I'll take some picts tomorrow and post them for your inspection )

AS far as solar....now there's a thought !

I keep the yak on the stand and just pull it in the hangar when I am not flying and roll it out when I want to fly ( which is all the time). I keep all the models that I fly in the hangar also which solves the transport issues. (Yes, I am a full scale pilot and this is my hangar at the local airport)

I found this post from Troy which I am going to try tomorrow. If it works I will be so happy!
quote:

Do you have a check valve in the vent line of the tank system. I know the DZ engines don't require it, however it serves several purposes. First it keeps fuel from dripping out the vent line both on the ground, while moving the model around and also it keeps the tank system sealed up in flight. Yet allows air to flow into the tank as fuel is used up.

What I do is fill the tank, engage the check valve. However it is that you do it. I use a fuel dot between the tank and check valve. I cap the fuel dot once the tank is full of fuel, and I put a small amount of pressure into the tank. About 3-4 cranks on a hand pump. Then I block the fuel flow to the engine. Now the tank has a slight amount of pressure in it. This will push fuel to the pump when its time to start it. It will make it easier to start each time.

Its important that you have some type of blockage, hemostats, a fuel line clip, or a valve to not allow fuel to flow to the engine when the tank is under pressure. This will flood the engine. So only release the fuel line clip or hemostats when it is time to crank the engine up.

Troy Newman
Team YS


I do have the plans if you are interested

OH ! I do not know how KS got there but I am in SouthEast IOWA !

John
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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/19/2008 2:15 PM   
tailspins


 

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Status: offline 		HEY....What size prop are you guys running on your YS 170 ? I am using a 18 X 10PN

John


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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/19/2008 4:31 PM   
dmccormick001



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Status: offline 		tailspins:

The stand looks great! My club currently has 9 of that same design built at our field, and we're thinking about building two or three more. On a really busy weekend we'll have them all full of planes. Our guys are pretty enthusiastic-some of them come just to chew the fat, but most of them are there to FLY!

quote:

ORIGINAL:
While trying to start this YS 170 I found that because of the pressure needed on the spinner it was not easy to start the motor without someone holding the YAK so I devised a holding block that works great to keep the model from moving backwards and is very easy to remove once it is ready to fly. ( I'll take some picts tomorrow and post them for your inspection )


Please do! As our models seem to keep getting bigger and bigger, we're having the same issue. I'd like to see how you solved it.


quote:

AS far as solar....now there's a thought !


Even though our field is right smack in the middle of a fair-sized town on the outskirts of Chattanooga, the property has never been developed, and it has no power and no water close by, so a couple of years ago, we wired our pit area up with 110 volt recepticles, and rigged a generator up to connect whenever we need power. But we've discovered lately that we really need 12 volts DC more often than we need the 110v, so we're going to add wiring and a couple of large solar panels so we can have 12 volts any time we need it without dragging a DC power source out.

quote:

I keep the yak on the stand and just pull it in the hangar when I am not flying and roll it out when I want to fly ( which is all the time).


Yeah, me too! You obviously have been stricken with the same disease the rest of us have. It's called "HobbyPox", and there's no cure. You can only treat it by flying. (That's straight off of Web MD)

quote:

I keep all the models that I fly in the hangar also which solves the transport issues. (Yes, I am a full scale pilot and this is my hangar at the local airport)


If I didn't already like you, I could really hate you after reading this!

Troy's idea is great, but I have a different method of sending a little pressure to the tank when I get ready to start. I fill the tank as usual, and I use a small spare tank as an overflow to catch the excess fuel that runs out the vent when the tank gets full. Once it's full, I cap the vent line, then I give the fill line just a quick shot by holding my pump's fill button down for just a second or two. Then I hold the line tight while I cap it off. Now all I have to do is give the prop about 9 or 10 turns without the glow ignitor connected, and it's ready to start. Once I connect the ignitor, it only takes a few turns before it fires and runs. I don't even use a high-torque starter motor. I'm still using the same one I start my 60-90 size engines with.

quote:

I do have the plans if you are interested


I have the plans for the bench, but if you have any that detail your mods I'd sure like to see those.

quote:

OH ! I do not know how KS got there but I am in SouthEast IOWA !


You mean Fort Madison, KS ain't in Iowa anymore?

David

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RE: Help ! Ys170Dz won't strat - 8/20/2008 5:43 PM   
tailspins


 

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Status: offline 		AN interesting thing . It works! Prime the pump by adding a little pressure to the tank to get the initial push of fuel to the pump then a few spins of the prop....add heat and veroom !

Notice the state change!....did you get my e-mail David?

Holding bracket that the gear rests against. Adjust to fit plane!

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< Message edited by tailspins -- 8/21/2008 2:33 AM >


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