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RE: RCGF Engines - 2/1/2012 12:46 AM   
acerc



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From: lithia, FL, USA
Status: online 		yurdakut,
Want an airframe well suited for a 20cc and more than capable of 3D go here  http://www.swanyshouse.com/primo60/primo60.aspx.
That will do anything you can tell it to. And if your like me it's capable of more than we are. A 20cc or 26cc is ample power.


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RE: RCGF Engines - 2/1/2012 7:30 AM   
yurdakut


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ahicks


quote:

ORIGINAL: yurdakut

ahicks do you mean ''not a good example of a 3D plane''switching to gas engine model instead of nitro designed model?or different brand and you dont like seagull?





There's nothing wrong with Seagull models. That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is the plane you've chosen will not work as well as others you could choose from. The weight of the gas engine is too much for that airframe (20 or 26cc) - if you are looking for good 3D performance.

ahicks, that s why I asked your opinions..I have examined your offer but its over my budget besides shipping and custom payments also come with it..on the other hand its necessary to have 1.25 or 1.5 times more thrust according to its weight for a plane for performing 3D maneuvers..if I m wrong please correct me...I mean if a plane has 5 lbs(ready to fly including engine) weight the engine you will install on it must have a 7.5 or 8 lbs thrust for 3D..so seagull edge 540 60 is 5 lbs rcgf 20 cc is enough?should I choose a different plane more light than edge like acerc's offer..primo 60 was in my in my choices but I dont like building very much so I have chosen ARF..



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RE: RCGF Engines - 2/1/2012 7:32 AM   
yurdakut


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ahicks


quote:

ORIGINAL: yurdakut

ahicks do you mean ''not a good example of a 3D plane''switching to gas engine model instead of nitro designed model?or different brand and you dont like seagull?





There's nothing wrong with Seagull models. That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is the plane you've chosen will not work as well as others you could choose from. The weight of the gas engine is too much for that airframe (20 or 26cc) - if you are looking for good 3D performance.

ahicks, that s why I asked your opinions..I have examined your offer but its over my budget besides shipping and custom payments also come with it..on the other hand its necessary to have 1.25 or 1.5 times more thrust according to its weight for a plane for performing 3D maneuvers..if I m wrong please correct me...I mean if a plane has 5 lbs(ready to fly including engine) weight the engine you will install on it must have a 7.5 or 8 lbs thrust for 3D..so seagull edge 540 60 is 5 lbs rcgf 20 cc is enough?should I choose a different plane more light than edge like acerc's offer..primo 60 was in my in my choices but I dont like building very much so I have chosen ARF..



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RE: RCGF Engines - 2/1/2012 4:49 PM   
ahicks


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yurdakut


quote:

ORIGINAL: ahicks


quote:

ORIGINAL: yurdakut

ahicks do you mean ''not a good example of a 3D plane''switching to gas engine model instead of nitro designed model?or different brand and you dont like seagull?





There's nothing wrong with Seagull models. That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is the plane you've chosen will not work as well as others you could choose from. The weight of the gas engine is too much for that airframe (20 or 26cc) - if you are looking for good 3D performance.

ahicks, that s why I asked your opinions..I have examined your offer but its over my budget besides shipping and custom payments also come with it..on the other hand its necessary to have 1.25 or 1.5 times more thrust according to its weight for a plane for performing 3D maneuvers..if I m wrong please correct me...I mean if a plane has 5 lbs(ready to fly including engine) weight the engine you will install on it must have a 7.5 or 8 lbs thrust for 3D..so seagull edge 540 60 is 5 lbs rcgf 20 cc is enough?should I choose a different plane more light than edge like acerc's offer..primo 60 was in my in my choices but I dont like building very much so I have chosen ARF..





There needs to be a 3rd factor entered into your thinking - in addition to power and weight - you need to consider wing area? You HAVE to take into account all 3 of these factors in order to predict the flying characteristics of a given airframe.

I'd go into this further but we have wandered WAY off the intended topic. Please PM if you would like to continue. Thanks, -Al



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RE: RCGF Engines - 2/1/2012 7:41 PM   
raydar


 

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Status: offline 		The rcg  20cc beam mount is more powerfull than my crrc pro 26i v1, was spinning the same prop 800 rpm faster!.  Replaced the carb on the crrc pro with a dle 30 carb as the venturi with the wt 793 was to small (9.5mm) and got it to 7800 rpm with a jxf 17 7 STILL 400 hundred rpm down on the rcg 20!

Both are set at 28 degrees and using the same fuel.

Great engine.

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/7/2012 1:17 PM   
yurdakut


 

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Status: offline 		dear friends, I have bought a RCGF 20 cc engine brand new from  HK....this thread is on 229 th page..so I need your help..if you know can you tell me which page I can find break in procedure?or can I learn your experinces advices for break in?I have 16x6 and 17x6 props and stock MF4 spark plug.manual is very short and I could not see any break in procedure..thank you for your interests and time.....

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/7/2012 2:09 PM   
ahicks


 

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Status: offline 		Regarding break in, just avoid letting it get too hot, and don't run it wide open for more than a few seconds until you get some time built up with it. Other than that, install it, get it running predictably through tuning, and go fly it! That assures good airflow around it. Mine seems to be doing a nice job with an APC 17x6. You might want to have an extra spark plug on hand. If so, arrange to get an NGK CM-6. They're quite a bit more predictable than the plugs supplied as OEM from the Chinese manfs. I would switch to one of those right away and keep the OEM plug for a back up.

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/7/2012 2:26 PM   
Captmicom


 

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Status: offline 		I hate to bear the bad news..... But you did not buy an RCGF what you bought is a counterfeit. I would almost be willing to bet you the cost of the engine, it shows up in a white box and it will not have any RCGF markings on it anywhere. RCGF did what ever they had to in order to get HK to stop calling there engines RCGF. HK now calls them RCG. Keep us posted when it shows up at your local.

Thanx,

Captmicom

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/7/2012 3:37 PM   
ahicks


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captmicom

I hate to bear the bad news..... But you did not buy an RCGF what you bought is a counterfeit. I would almost be willing to bet you the cost of the engine, it shows up in a white box and it will not have any RCGF markings on it anywhere. RCGF did what ever they had to in order to get HK to stop calling there engines RCGF. HK now calls them RCG. Keep us posted when it shows up at your local.

Thanx,

Captmicom


Bad News? Counterfeit? REALLY? Oh please...
I went through this same kind of kind of thing when I bought an Aerovate/RCGF 26cc, paying top dollar for it. That's not going to happen again. My new (arrived 2 weeks ago) 20cc rail mount engine was also purchased through HK, and the box is marked "Made by RCGF Models". I could care less what HK calls it. I've had it apart, everything appears to be in order, and it runs great.

This is not intended to be taken as a personal attack. I know you know what you're doing, and provide great support, but not everyone can use, or needs that. Let's not condemn them by trying to convince them they've purchased junk. Your service/support should sell itself without that kind of thing going on?

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/7/2012 5:46 PM   
Captmicom


 

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From: Sierra Vista, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		No affiance taken. Yes Your Aerovate was a rebox from RCGF and you did pay top dollar for it. I wasn’t trying to start anything just buyer beware. I have had three cases in the last 6 months that came from HK. The compay denied they made them. If you don’t have a valid RCGF serial number then the company will not pay for warranty service. I am only the messanger passing along the info....

Captmicom



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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/7/2012 9:45 PM   
ahicks


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captmicom

No affiance taken. Yes Your Aerovate was a rebox from RCGF and you did pay top dollar for it. I wasn’t trying to start anything just buyer beware. I have had three cases in the last 6 months that came from HK. The compay denied they made them. If you don’t have a valid RCGF serial number then the company will not pay for warranty service. I am only the messanger passing along the info....

Captmicom




So we're clear, I prefer to do all my own work, bought it on mostly an "as is" basis, knowing I would be responsible for servicing it myself. I would not send it back to China for service, though if it had come through all balled up inside/unusable, I would have made an attempt to get it replaced - through HK channels. If that didn't work out in my best interest, a call to my credit card company will take care of that pretty easily.

For others, if this type of arrangement doesn't suit you, if there is ANY chance you might want/need to send it out for service, you are way further ahead buying from somebody like Captmicom.



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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/7/2012 10:14 PM   
aussiesteve



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From: PerthWA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hey Joe
Don't believe everything Ms Tsang tells you.
When I was an RCGF distributor (Yes - factory direct, despite her later claims to others). The RCGF engines turned up in a number of locations under various brand names (Including the Hobbyking RCG's). She vehemently denied they came from them even though at that time, they arrived in RCGF packaging, with "RCGF" manuals (mostly written by the USA dealer of that time). When I ordered a few GRPro's from the local GRPro dealer (under a pseudonym - and just to see if what I was being told was true) and they also turned up in RCGF boxes with the same manuals, I had all the proof I needed. Shortly after that she refused to sell me spare parts and tried telling people that I was never an official distributor. The rest, as they say is history.

IF the "RCG's" are NOT RCGF's, then RCGF don't manufacture engines and must use "off the shelf" parts for everything because side by side they are absolutely identical including he machining marks and die marks on all components. (This is not a situation that is unique to RCGF - JC Engines and REV Engines is another example where the REV is made up of parts from 2 different engines that were supplied by JC.)

I am pretty sure that the reason Henry (the originator of them being sold under the "Aerovate" name) charged what he did was to cover his in house inspection and warranty costs.

I believe ahicks is totally correct. If you do your own work on an engine and are prepared to write off the cost if it turns sour - HK is a good choice. If you want superior local service in the USA - SW Aerovista (captmicom) is the best choice.

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/7/2012 10:27 PM   
Captmicom


 

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Status: offline 		Ok Bro just watchin your back..... Even though you did not ask me to…. lol

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/7/2012 11:16 PM   
Captmicom


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Steve...

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/8/2012 7:17 PM   
yurdakut


 

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From: kayseri, TURKEY
Status: offline 		dear friends ahicks, captmicom, aussiesteve sorry I m late..I have seen that there is no any signature or trademark which means RCG or RCGF neither on the box nor on the engine..only "made by RCGF model" is written on the packgae box...so does it mean this is not rcgf/rcg?so as much as I understood and read about break in before, I will work the engine only for adjusting needles try not to heat and force too much..I will burn 1 tank on the ground after that I will fly and I will not fly it on WOT for a long in time...wht about oil preferences?synth for breaking in or non-synth?after breaking in ?thank you again

< Message edited by yurdakut -- 3/8/2012 7:54 PM >

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/8/2012 7:52 PM   
steph18


 

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Status: offline 		well, I bought the RCG 30cc at the HK store and a RCGF 32 at the store of the french dealer of RCGF.

and I confirm your remark on the packaging.
what I think is that RCGF made second choice engine for the chiness market and the first choice is exported.

stephane


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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/8/2012 8:10 PM   
Captmicom


 

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Status: offline 		I would use low ash regular oil for the break-in period. After that it will be up to you.
If you use Synthetic oil for break-in it will take much longer for your engine to have a good seat.

Captmicom


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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/8/2012 8:57 PM   
ahicks


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yurdakut

dear friends ahicks, captmicom, aussiesteve sorry I m late..I have seen that there is no any signature or trademark which means RCG or RCGF neither on the box nor on the engine..only ''made by RCGF model'' is written on the packgae box...so does it mean this is not rcgf/rcg?so as much as I understood and read about break in before, I will work the engine only for adjusting needles try not to heat and force too much..I will burn 1 tank on the ground after that I will fly and I will not fly it on WOT for a long in time...wht about oil preferences?synth for breaking in or non-synth?after breaking in ?thank you again


If it looks like cheese, smells like cheese, taste like cheese, it most likely IS cheese?

Regarding oil, people have differing ideas regarding using synth. for break in. Personaly, I'm with Captmicom on his school of thought. I'm not racing or pushing any of my engines hard though. If I were, I might pay a little more attention. As it is, I'll not likely ever wear one of these out using any decent oil designed for use in air cooled engines.

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/8/2012 10:15 PM   
aussiesteve



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ahicks
As it is, I'll not likely ever wear one of these out using any decent oil designed for use in air cooled engines.


Give the man a prize for the most commonsense comment as it is 100% true.

The below information applies to just about any engine we use in theis hobby.

For your break in, The trick is to heat cycle the flame plated chrome liner to consolidate it and to flush out the excessive metallic particles that are created in those first few runs. This is most easily done by putting that engine in the air and flying it and using a slightly richer oil mix than normal (30:1 instead of 40:1). The rings on these (and 99.9% or all other Chinese engines) are quite hard so they will never really conform to the bore anyway (how often do you see a comment about people noting the rings look "just like new" after a while of running).

Ever bought a new chainsaw? How was that run in? (They start them, then tune them then run them hard)

Ever read the piston ring manufacturers instruction on how to break in piston rings? (they tell you to apply reasonable load as early as possible).

The best way to run these 2 strokes in is to give them a little more oil than normal for the first couple of litres of fuel, the make them work. You want to get the cylinder BMEP high enough to make that piston ring work and you are not going to do that by "babying" it. That applies to about 99% or all ringed internal combustion engines on the planet. Defintiely avoid prolonged WOT runs for the first hour or so but do not be afraid to give the engine some work. Also avoid long periods of low cooling air flow (such as extended hovering or long ground runs without the plane moving). Do not run it rich on the fuel settings, (do not run it lean either) Just use it how it is intended to be used.

For the break in period (The first hour or two of running), You need an oil that will flush out the metal particles. For this reason it is always a good idea to use a reasonably rich oil ratio. Many use Pennzoil air cooled at 30:1 but your location may not have that. I use the oil I will be using in the engine for it's lifetime and instead of mixing it at 40:1 (which is my normal mix), I mix it at 30:1 for the first couple of litres.

As to which oil to use? there are many good ones available. If you can get Stihl Ultra HP, use that at 30:1 for break in of the first couple of litres and at 40:1 or 50:1 for the rest of the engines life. If you can get Mobil 2T Racing - same comment, also Redline Racing or "Kart" oil - same ratios. Castrol TTS is another choice as is Motul 800. If you can't find any of those readily where you live, go to your local morocycle shop and ask what they stock for air cooled dirt bikes and use that. If there isn't a bike shop near you, try your local chainsaw / garden equipment shop.

Start the engine, let it warm up for a few seconds, tune the high needle to max RPM then richen it about 1/8 turn, set the low needle to give a good crisp transition then go fly it. Running a tank on the ground ususally ends up doing more harm than good as most enignes get overheated when doing that. Very few provide proper cooling in that process.

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/8/2012 10:29 PM   
raydar


 

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Status: offline 		Steph18 you say you have the rcg 30 from hobbyking and the rcgf 32 also, just to confirm are you saying that the motor supplied by hobbyking called rcg 30 is identical to the rcgf 32?.

I have two rcg 20s, one dle 20, one crrc26 and two dle30s and I  fancy a rcgf32 but if the rcgf32 is the rcg30 from hobbyking  it would be great to confirm this as I think this may be the case but want to ask someone who has actually had experience with the two  motors that come from the companys.

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/8/2012 10:32 PM   
aussiesteve



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quote:

ORIGINAL: steph18

what I think is that RCGF made second choice engine for the chiness market and the first choice is exported.

stephane



You really think they go out of their way to make a low grade and a high grade product? Gee - I wonder if any mistakes happen and the low grade one ends up in high grade packaging

What actually happens (and this doesn't apply only to this brand) is that they get a customer (such as Hobbyking) that places a much larger order for product than any of the "Western based" distributors orders at any one time. To achieve turnover (which is VERY important to a Chinese business - sometimes even more so than total profit margins) they negotiate a low price for them then delineate the product with a different name so as to keep the Western based bulk buyers on side.

Then that Large buyer also works on smaller profit markups than the western buyers can work on (many reasons for that - low warranty coverage is one of them) and you end up with an end price for the product that is much closer to where it would be if it was any other industry than RC'ers.

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/8/2012 10:59 PM   
raydar


 

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Status: offline 		Aussie, I know that rcg and rcgf are the same company and product, can you confirm if the rcg 30 from hobbyking is ordered you get a motor identical to the rcgf 32? or do you get the old rcgf 30 model?. 

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/8/2012 11:05 PM   
aussiesteve



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quote:

ORIGINAL: raydar

Aussie, I know that rcg and rcgf are the same company and product, can you confirm if the rcg 30 from hobbyking is ordered you get a motor identical to the rcgf 32? or do you get the old rcgf 30 model?. 



The last few that the guys at my field have received from HK are the current 32's

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3W, BME and DA all the way. Proven power, Proven reliability and Proven support equals much cheaper in the long term.

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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/9/2012 5:13 PM   
steph18


 

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From: saint just, FRANCE
Status: offline 		In reply to your questions :
I have the RCG 30 and the RCGF 32 and I have compared them.
RCG and RCGF are quiet the same indesign. there are some few differences such as the volume svept for exemple :
the RCG 30 has got 30.5 cc (bore 36 mm and stroke 30 mm) its power equipped with a tune pipe is quite the same than a ys 170 DZ.
the RCGF 32 has got 34cc of volume svept  (38mm of bore and stroke = 30mm) you can calculate the result is 34cc and not 32. I have measured the dimension of these 2 engines and it is the results of my measures that i give you.

after there are small aspect faults on the RCG compared to the RCGF and it can explan the lower cost of the RCG.

if you want only a 30cc and you want to reduce cost  you can buy the rcg it will run correctlly.

stephane


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RE: RCGF Engines - 3/10/2012 9:55 PM   
acerc



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Status: online 		I don't know about all of that. What I do know is the four RCGF's I own from BP Hobbies, are great. Tha latest is a 20cc beam mount put in a profile swinging a 17x6 prop. Love it!

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