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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> The Clubhouse >> turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!)
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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/15/2002 8:33 PM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		as a winter project i build a turbo prop plane (cap 222 from delro, wingspan 2.31m, hopefully no more than 10kg) with an inflight full adjustable prop .

my goal is to build a turbine driven prop plane capable of doing all aerobatic maneuvers, especially constant speed flight, thrust reversing (flying backwards ; no, => taxiing backwards).

more pics to come..

mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/15/2002 8:45 PM   
stevezero



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Status: offline 		WOW, that is cool looking. Is that a modified heli rotor and gear? Also, please give a detailed description about everything on the firewall. I would love to find out how that works, and if that shaft will take the flex of the prop blades under load/unload.

Steve

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/16/2002 12:39 AM   
Dansy



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Status: offline 		Hi,

Pretty interesting project, is your prop going to be condition at 100% like a P3 Orion or the rev the engine to spool up the prop ... the big difference is how fast the power is available...

Daniel D.

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/16/2002 12:44 AM   
stevezero



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Status: offline 		My concern is the length of the output shaft. Given rapid loading and unloading of the blades, I would be afraid the shaft would warp or snap. Also, what size prop are you talking about turning?
If you throw a prop blade, that would knock the whole unit out of balance.

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/16/2002 5:23 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		hi steve,

this is a self made rotor and gear similar to a heli rotor (exept the cyclic pitch moving)
a heli clutch is used which engages at 38.000rpm of the second shaft coming out of the turbine

the standard firewall was useless (on the left side in the picture), a new one has to be made.

a y-exhaust pipe will be the next work, the hot gases will leave the fuselage laterally near the beginning of the canopy. heat shield and things like that will follow wherever necessary.

mec

sorry, english is not my native language

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/16/2002 5:30 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		hi daniel,

sorry, P3 orion, never heard, never seen, but maybe the following will answer your question:
the engine will always and under all conditions run at 80.000rpm. it has an automatic start system (today standard), and from the transmitter a kill-switch.
the throttle stick will control the pitch of the blades only.

on the test bench the Orbit ECU (especially made for that purpose) regulated rpm without any aberrances.

so power is always available.

mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/16/2002 5:43 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		hi steve once again,

your concearn bout the lenght of the output shaft is mine too.

but without cyclic pitch, we have only collective pitch, the forces are axial primarely.

the prop size will be nearly 58-60cm diameter rotating at 4800rpm.

in the picture below you can see our prototype rotor. it is a vario three blade rotor (way too large for our purpose) turning a more than 60cm diameter prop with 4200rpm.
this unit did several hours faultless on our test bench. max thrust was 12kg.
the blades we used have been shortened wooden heli rotorblades. once a blade failed resulting in a severe damage of the whole unit, even the turbineshaft. but it was our mistake, the junction between blade and where it is screwed to the rotor (do not know the terminus technicus?) was too week, exactly the blade shred.

mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/16/2002 7:25 PM   
Dansy



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Status: offline 		Hi Mec

Yes that is what I mean the engine condition at 100% RPM in flight range, so that when you throttle up you just condition prop pitch increase and fuel flow to the engine which of course is pretty much pre-determine.

What is the max turbine temperature possible?

and what was she running at max power during your test run?

60 cm is pretty big for very little thrust....but your prop should be a little more powerfull in flight....(it will unload)depending on the shape??

The other question I have is about the servo, it will work pretty hard co counter CMT.....it's the force that is trying at all time to send the prop toward fine pitch.....happen on all prop , and could be hard on the servo depending on the set-up moment.....?

Cheers Daniel D

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/17/2002 1:54 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		hi daniel,

when i throttle up, i condition prop pitch increase. fuel flow is regulated automatically by the ECU ensuring 80.000rpm with a tolerance of +/- 4000rpm.

on the test bench we had 640°C at max thrust.
the max possible EGT is 740°C. overtemp causes decrease of flow of the fuel regulated by the ECU. over 800°C shuting down the engine.
EGT is depending on prop size and pitch. we will have the possibility to check the EGT inflight by telemetrie to make basic adjustments.

>60 cm is pretty big for very little thrust....but your prop should be a little more powerfull in flight....(it will unload)depending on the shape?? <
hopefully our prop will be more powerful in flight.
the best results on our test bench we achieved with shortened helirotor blades (unfortunately pretty ugly).

on our test bench we did use a graupner 4041 servo (only 4kg/cm). astonishing it did the job without remarkable effort. apparently the result of the leverage.
in the plane i will use a 4421 with double power.

mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/24/2002 3:17 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		there are now more photos from the work on the turbo prop :

spot welder

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/24/2002 3:19 AM   
mec



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Status: offline 		there is the exhaust dummie pipe made of paper

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/24/2002 3:20 AM   
mec



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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/24/2002 3:21 AM   
mec



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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 3/24/2002 6:39 PM   
Flying Cowboy



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Status: offline 		I can't believe what I see here. I must be dreaming.

I hope we will be able to follow the progress on this project and maybe we could see some video of the test flights.

Mec you got to let us know where we can follow the work and results of what you're doing.

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brand of turbine - 3/31/2002 7:56 AM   
TorkRollN


 

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Status: offline 		MEC

I also would like to build a turbo prop powered aerobatic airplane.

What tubine are you using?

Does the thrust output of the turbine have anything to do with the thrust output of the prop ?

What is the expected flying weight?

How much fuel will be carried on board the airplane?

How much flying time will you have with the amount of fuel carried on board the airplane?

Do you have any links to other turbo prop projects done by other people?

I have seen a turbo prop done by WREN on the internet.

Would there be a disadvantage to not using an adjustable pitch prop ?

I have heard that turbines take a while to "spool up".
I was wondering if this would be a problem.
Maybe that is why you are making the adjustable pitch prop .

Let me know anything you can about turbo props.

Barry Finck
Grantville, PA
USA

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 4/2/2002 2:39 AM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		hi berry,

i will try to answer your questions:

What tubine are you using?
its a PJW, (http://www.jets.at/pjw.html)

Does the thrust output of the turbine have anything to do with the thrust output of the prop ?
no. the thrust output is unwanted and therefore eliminated by the y-exhaust pipe

What is the expected flying weight?
9.5kg

How much fuel will be carried on board the airplane?
1 liter

How much flying time will you have with the amount of fuel carried on board the airplane?
15 minutes

Do you have any links to other turbo prop projects done by other people?
at the moment "behotec" is working on a turbo prop plane as well, maybe available in the near future (website [url]www.behotec.de[/url])

I have seen a turbo prop done by WREN on the internet.
as far as i know wren had a turbo prop plane (pilatus porter) flying two or three years ago, but without an adjustable pitch prop

Would there be a disadvantage to not using an adjustable pitch prop ?

yes.
i can´t imagine flying the plane without an adjustable pitch prop . it would be like california without sun . the throttle delay of the turbines is nearly 5 seconds (without gear and prop ), so imagine this doing aerobatics. in addition to this gear and prop will worsen this effect in resulting overheating the turbine.

mec

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 4/4/2002 10:02 PM   
mec



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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 4/4/2002 10:04 PM   
mec



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Status: offline 		mechanics of the adjustable prop

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 4/4/2002 10:05 PM   
mec



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Status: offline 		the shortened heliblades ready for preparing to fit to the blade holders

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 4/4/2002 10:07 PM   
mec



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Status: offline 		ready for take of

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 4/4/2002 10:09 PM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 4/4/2002 10:10 PM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		1 liter kerosin tank, the bvm UAT hides in the front of the fuselage

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 4/4/2002 10:11 PM   
mec



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From: oberndorf, AUSTRIA
Status: offline 		the rest of the work is standard

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turbo prop aerobatic plane (it flies!!!!!) - 4/4/2002 10:15 PM   
MiL



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Status: offline 		Looks awesome mec, you are quite a craftsman. Can't wait to hear about how it flies . If it's convenient for you, i'm sure everyone here would love to see videos (with sound! ) when it's flying.

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What else will this fit in? - 4/5/2002 12:55 AM   
Mike James



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Status: offline 		Hi Mec,

Outstanding!

Can you tell us a little about the exterior dimensions of your unit? (not including the prop eller) In other words, what do you think is the smallest practical size cowling that your unit would fit in?

Please keep us informed!


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